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Hypothetical Situation

Started by NIN, September 22, 2012, 01:33:53 AM

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abdsp51

Quote from: a2capt on April 13, 2013, 03:19:52 AM
Read the comments on TAH, too. I suspect there's going to be a little friction at VAWG HQ .. ;)

Yup considering if what rhe party claimed is true poses a conflict of interest.

NIN

Yeah, honestly, I think that is just sort of "blood in the water" talk. I can't imagine that the Wing CV has anything to do with her after all the crap thats gone on.

I do wonder why the Wing CV got stuck doing the investigation instead of the IG. That is a curious choice of investigating officers.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
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Pylon

Quote from: NIN on April 13, 2013, 04:06:03 AM
I do wonder why the Wing CV got stuck doing the investigation instead of the IG. That is a curious choice of investigating officers.


Curious indeed that the Wing CV who knew Chelle Hougan-Tesla-Anderson (see CAP article here) was the one who "investigated" her and cleared her of any issues despite official federal government documents clearly showing the complete opposite story.


I mean, we're not talking about one undocumented medal here.  We're talking about a chaptered-out PFC with 2 ribbons after 22 months of service as a vehicle driver versus a supposed Mustang Army O-3/CPT UH-60 pilot with combat deployment to Iraq, shot down, received the PH and other medals and medically retired with PTSD after 10 years of service.


That's like saying to someone: "Oh, yeah... well the Army forgot to document my entire military career, my OCS graduation, my commissioning, my promotions, my flight school, my advanced school, all my unit assignments, my combat deployment, my Purple Heart, my other medals, at least 8 of my 10 years of service, and my medical retirement.  And I can't find so much as a single photo of my from my time as an Army officer, pilot, or while deployed.  Or so much as a single buddy who was there with me at OCS, Flight School, Iraq, or my flight squadron.  Must be an oversight." 


And CAP responds with, "Oh, okay.  That makes sense.  Yeah."
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

PHall

Is it even "legal" for a non IG officer to even conduct an investigation? ???
I've always heard that if the IG at one level had a conflict then the investigation bumped up to the next level.

Devil Doc

Finally!! She gets caught on National TV!! How dare someone claim a medal that my brothers have died for, and someone has bled for.
Captain Brandon P. Smith CAP
Former HM3, U.S NAVY
Too many Awards, Achievments and Qualifications to list.


abdsp51

Quote from: Devil Doc on April 13, 2013, 12:08:45 PM
Finally!! She gets caught on National TV!! How dare someone claim a medal that my brothers have died for, and someone has bled for.

I agree bro. In my neck of the woods theres a member whos running around in a crown vic fully decked out.  Shes caught bigtime red handed.

MSG Mac

I know of a guy who claims to be a MD at a local hospital, but his Facebook page shows him with a Doctorate in health Education and a nutritionist. He also claims to have earned the Earhart Award in 99 or 2000 which somehow doesn't show up in E services. I am still researching, before I act.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

JK657

I think some more might fall as a result of this woman. I think a can of worms has been opened...

a2capt

A clue would be if she' still admin/active on the "official" FB pages. There's always reveres. I just can't imagine in this world of instant search and connectivity, why people do this stuff.

Jaison009

I received my Mitchell (45347) in 98 and my Earhart (10946) in 2000. After 10 years away, both awards and my 4 encampments showed up on my CAPID eServices account (which he would have as CAPIDs were issued at that time). Since those awards and the actual certificate comes from National after a 2a being signed all the way up, there is no virtually no way it happened. CAPNews and NHQ also have a list of every receipient as they are numbered. I could see some possible plausibility IF it had been before the 90s; however, I call bravo sierra on this one.

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 14, 2013, 04:03:25 AM
I know of a guy who claims to be a MD at a local hospital, but his Facebook page shows him with a Doctorate in health Education and a nutritionist. He also claims to have earned the Earhart Award in 99 or 2000 which somehow doesn't show up in E services. I am still researching, before I act.

DerNarr

Quote from: Pylon on April 13, 2013, 04:16:59 AM
Curious indeed that the Wing CV who knew Chelle Hougan-Tesla-Anderson (see CAP article here) was the one who "investigated" her and cleared her of any issues despite official federal government documents clearly showing the complete opposite story.

Really? One of the guys in the TAH comments section got a response from the CV which led me to believe the investigation was still ongoing. But if she did get off the hook...well, I imagine VAWG and National are going to get some pretty angry feedback.


Quote from: ProdigalJim on April 13, 2013, 03:04:48 AM
Quote from: PHall on April 13, 2013, 02:49:10 AM

"And get caught!".

And that reporter is not a happy camper anymore. Probably got her butt handed to her by the boss for not fact checking her story before it aired.
You know, your basic Journalism 101 stuff.

If she *has* a boss, at least a senior journalist-type boss. Cutbacks in the business are so steep that editors, copyeditors, fact-checkers and the like are considered "quaint" by the bean-counters that run newsrooms these days. Believe me, I know...  >:(

I think you're giving a bit too much credit to the media. Look at how so many of these "fake warrior" stories break: quite often it's from a local news station or newspaper. You get staff - from the reporter up to the bosses - who might not know any better and/or who are more interested in getting the scoop, and unfortunately these things will just happen. Even a seasoned reporter could be easily baited into a BS story about a local "vet" who - I don't know - watched his best friend die in a tiger cage in Vietnam/Cambodia/Iraq/Afghanistan/Mogadishu/Detroit but the government says it's a secret mission and so there's no paperwork (but, really, it happened!) and so that's why that proposed Taco Bell CAN'T BE BUILT, DANG IT.
Really, a lot of these reporters are just like your average Joe: they hear "vet" and it elicits a response. The veteran issue is very evocative in this country, and that's sadly given rise to these kinds of tricksters and frauds. A writer for the local rag can be just as gullible as the audience for whom they write--but unlike you or I, these people have deadlines to meet which are ultimately linked to putting bread on their tables. That's why I'm glad we have sites like TAH and the Schantags' page: one part media watchdog, one part public information, and one part public jury. We'll always need those outlets as much as we'll need the press itself.

Bobble

Quote from: DerNarr on April 16, 2013, 12:18:58 AM
I think you're giving a bit too much credit to the media. Look at how so many of these "fake warrior" stories break: quite often it's from a local news station or newspaper. You get staff - from the reporter up to the bosses - who might not know any better and/or who are more interested in getting the scoop, and unfortunately these things will just happen. Even a seasoned reporter could be easily baited into a BS story about a local "vet" who - I don't know - watched his best friend die in a tiger cage in Vietnam/Cambodia/Iraq/Afghanistan/Mogadishu/Detroit but the government says it's a secret mission and so there's no paperwork (but, really, it happened!) and so that's why that proposed Taco Bell CAN'T BE BUILT, DANG IT.
Really, a lot of these reporters are just like your average Joe: they hear "vet" and it elicits a response. The veteran issue is very evocative in this country, and that's sadly given rise to these kinds of tricksters and frauds. A writer for the local rag can be just as gullible as the audience for whom they write--but unlike you or I, these people have deadlines to meet which are ultimately linked to putting bread on their tables. That's why I'm glad we have sites like TAH and the Schantags' page: one part media watchdog, one part public information, and one part public jury. We'll always need those outlets as much as we'll need the press itself.

I get your point, but in this particular case, I don't think it applies -

http://www.suraechinn.com/resume/

She ain't some local yokel with in IBM Selectric.
R. Litzke, Capt, CAP
NER-NY-153

"Men WILL wear underpants."

Stonewall

I just noticed on This Ain't Hell that they have a separate page identifying her specifically as a CAP Liar.

Chelle Lynne Anderson-Tesla; Civil Air Patrol liar

So much for CAP not being mentioned.
Serving since 1987.

a2capt

The part that sucks there is, from the onset that gives an impression that CAP supports that.

She's hosing CAP just as much as the Army.

She's the problem. Not the service.

Eclipse

Sadly(?) our candidate was defeated in the finals.

Obama Signs New Stolen Valor Act

"The law signed Monday at the White House includes such a provision, making it illegal to make the claims with the intent to obtain money, property or other tangible benefits."

Still not as strong as many of us would like it to be, but the term "tangible" could probably be interpreted
to be anything from a free doughnut to a ride on a parade float or a place of honor at a given event.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/06/03/obama-signs-new-stolen-valor-act.html

http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th/house-bill/258

"That Others May Zoom"

SunDog

DD214 - pretty easy to get a replacement copy. I had to do so recently, from AD service in the 70's. If CAP needs a copy, this guy can probably get one, if he's willing. Some things aren't on there, like some badges, and it's another goat rope if you were a Reservist who was activated. Been, there, done that too, after AD. But, with just a bit more effort, that service can be substaniated, too.

A DFC earned on AD? It would be on the 214 unless a gross error was made. And then overlooked by the veteran as well. If I had a DFC, I'd sure note if it was missing on my 214.

One thing, though; a bunch of records were lost in a fire, but I don't recall the years affected. DoD had a lot of people involved in re-building the history for those affected, and even those folks can usually support thier claims.

SarDragon

BranchPersonnel and Period AffectedEstimated Loss
ArmyPersonnel discharged November 1, 1912 to January 1, 1960 80%
Air ForcePersonnel discharged September 25, 1947 to January 1, 1964
(with names alphabetically after Hubbard, James E.)
75%

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-1973.html
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

BillB

Alot does not appear on eServices. My Cadet COP, National Commanders Citation for example. Both GRW did showup. My DD-214 shows no awards, including the National Defense Award. It also does not show the award of Air Crew Wings as a radio operator on C-54's even though there was a Squadron approval personnel order. (which I may still have a copy) As a reservist called to AD, at the time all promotions were temporary, I only made it to e-5, but the DD-214 only shows permenant grade, not temporary grade. Makes little differenceto me, since I didn't wear any military insignia/ribbons etc on a CAP uniform
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

PHall

Quote from: BillB on August 24, 2013, 10:46:10 AM
Alot does not appear on eServices. My Cadet COP, National Commanders Citation for example. Both GRW did showup. My DD-214 shows no awards, including the National Defense Award. It also does not show the award of Air Crew Wings as a radio operator on C-54's even though there was a Squadron approval personnel order. (which I may still have a copy) As a reservist called to AD, at the time all promotions were temporary, I only made it to e-5, but the DD-214 only shows permenant grade, not temporary grade. Makes little differenceto me, since I didn't wear any military insignia/ribbons etc on a CAP uniform

Hey, you were shown your DD-214 during your discharge processing and were asked if it was correct before you initialed the consent boxes at the bottom.
If you knew it was wrong, why didn't you say something... ::)

StolenValor

#259
First an foremost I accept that this account is directly in violation of the TOS as this is a second "toss" account, and can be banned. However I'm not willing to link my normal persona to this. Having said that on with what I have to say.


This isn't the first time something like this has happened, mind you this is no "Which Hunt" just merely stating facts presented online from respectable websites. Up in Central Florida there is a Lt Col Richard Ortega, his rank from my understand was specially presented to him by CAP for various reasons. I've met him personally twice, he has every medal known to man on his chest, and from those meetings he is very genuine, very respectable, and overall great person, could tell you stories for days, and always volunteering his time to something all the time. However it seems the Air Force Times and a couple others question his integrity. That he wears awards that he hasn't earned, that he claims to be places he really wasn't, etc.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20110704/NEWS/107040301/Vet-s-service-record-doesn-t-match-his-medals

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=25689

Now while I wish this wasn't true, but unfortunately the facts are there. I would like to believe that do to the age of the records in question, and the fact that some awards could have been awarded in the field that the records obtained have incorrect/non-up to date information, I say that since a large majority of what he says is true and that many both civilian and military have great respect for him. I mean why would this man, who has an already exemplary service record need to embellish his service any more?