2B persons on CAP Talk

[Persona non grata]

Dou you think that persons that have been 2b from CAP should be allowed to particpate in discussions on on this forum?.  The question was raised a couple of days ago with some folks at a local squadron who follow this forum.  I know that reagrdless of memebership status , those that have been 2b can still contribute to the discussion in  a positive manner.

regards
J

[Hawk200]

Why not? Second, how are you gonna know whose been 2B'd? It's an open forum, you don't even have to be a CAP member to join.

[Flying Pig]

CAPTalk is a privately owned site where people can register and post anonymously.  To much effort to police.  Most who make an a-- out of themselves are dealt with and usually move on.

[Eclipse]

Yep - why anyone who is not a member would be interested in reading here, or even more amusing, posting, is beyond me, but the admins have made it clear this is an open forum, at least until you prove you don't belong here.

[FW]

I'm glad this is an open forum.  Anyone who abides by the CT code of conduct should be welcome to contribute.  There are many CAP nonmembers who are interested in CAP; especially parents of cadets.

[flyboy53]

This is a public site and you can't stop it because it isn't internally controlled by NHQ. It does, however, bring up the subject of what should be discussed in these forums and what individual conduct should be.

I have often wondered what impact a 2B'd individual had on the rhetoric between the membership and if something didn't get fueled beyond reason because someone had an agenda. I've certainly noticed the difference between the cadets and senior members who use this site.

[Johnny Yuma]

In a word:


No.

[Major Lord]

I agree that people should not be kicked off the public site because of a 2B ( and there are relatively benign reasons for a 2B as well) If we know that they molested a child, pinned the MOH to their uniform and went on a speaking tour, etc. Perhaps then the mods may use their better judgment. I am not sure how many people 2B'd for cause are eventually reversed, and I don't think its wise to pin a scarlet letter on a member until the last appeals are final. There are far too many dysfunctional people in CAP to assume that every 2B is warranted.

Major Lord

[James Shaw]

In a word:
No.

+1

[Nathan]

Yep - why anyone who is not a member would be interested in reading here, or even more amusing, posting, is beyond me

I haven't held a membership for over a year. I got too busy to participate actively as a senior member. That doesn't in any way affect my interest in the program and my desire to participate in it in one of the few ways I still can.

[Angus]

Yep - why anyone who is not a member would be interested in reading here, or even more amusing, posting, is beyond me

I haven't held a membership for over a year. I got too busy to participate actively as a senior member. That doesn't in any way affect my interest in the program and my desire to participate in it in one of the few ways I still can.

But that would be the same as someone like me who is seriously considering going Patron.  It doesn't mean that we messed up, life just happened.  That's a little different than the question of a 2b'd person taking part in the board.

To that end though, I don't have a problem with someone who was 2b'd being on the board.  Depending on why we all may learn something from them.  Plus what if it was a 2b that was intiated by that person.  Although in maybe 95% of cases is someone starts a 2b for them self they may just be tired of CAP altogether. 

[James Shaw]

I know of atleast one person on this forum that was 2B'd. I have had chats with them and this person happens to still support the organization in ways outside of CAP and does a better job at doing it then others I know.

[Angus]

Exactly there are multiple reasons why a 2b may be filled out.  Not all are like HWSNBN and are still upstanding people who can be some sort asset to the program.

[Nathan]

Not to mention some dubious 2b reports that probably were more political than punitive...

[Eclipse]

Not to mention some dubious 2b reports that probably were more political than punitive...

Which does not change the member's status one bit.

[FW]

I have often wondered what impact a 2B'd individual had on the rhetoric between the membership and if something didn't get fueled beyond reason because someone had an agenda. I've certainly noticed the difference between the cadets and senior members who use this site.

Individual "agendas" are what makes CT interesting and entertaining.  I, for one, enjoy hearing all points of view; as long as the posts are civil.  CAP has been in existence for 69 years.  I seriously doubt any negative comments about us will jeopardize our making 70.

[Senty7]

Yep - why anyone who is not a member would be interested in reading here, or even more amusing, posting, is beyond me, but the admins have made it clear this is an open forum, at least until you prove you don't belong here.

I'm new here.  I'm also an outsider...never belonged to CAP...don't expect I will.  I pray the list owners don't find my remarks (or my presence here) to be in need of "moderation." 

Amusing, sir?

I've lurked here off and on for almost two years, but only recently registered in order to participate in a thread I felt I could contribute something meaningful to.  I am one of the ones whose presence, and subsequent postings, Eclipse finds "amusing." 

My unit, and the mutual-aid network to which my unit belongs, have historically not found the CAP to be an effective resource.   We almost never called them.  However, recently my unit has discovered a refreshing surge of "We Can" spirit in our local squadron, and my colleagues and I are working diligently with the hard-working leaders there to grow and develop our relationship.  By their own accounts, our local squadron responded to two SAR missions last year.  My unit responded to 161.  The mutual benefits of working more closely together to our respective agencies are, I believe, quite clear.

Part of the reason I'm here is to better understand how CAP works, and how CAP thinks.  I wish to see CAP's view from CAP's perspective, from a position of empathy, since my own point of view has not always been favorable. 

That someone finds this endeavor "amusing," I find disturbing. 

Best regards,

Senty7

[Nathan]

Not to mention some dubious 2b reports that probably were more political than punitive...

Which does not change the member's status one bit.

I'm confused as to the point you're trying to make. Are you still saying that people without current membership should have no reason to be interested in CAP affairs?

Seems like an odd stance to take in light of the fact that CAP is not a self-contained, private membership organization, and is, in fact, designed to serve the public. It's an even stranger stance to take against former members who either resigned voluntarily due to other commitments (like myself) or members who were kicked out of the organization for political reasons, rather than deserving ones.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to imagine that people who are not currently in CAP, especially people who USED to be in CAP, would still have an interest in contributing to and knowing what's happening in CAP.

[jimmydeanno]

I wish to see CAP's view from CAP's perspective, from a position of empathy, since my own point of view has not always been favorable. 

I try to tell people that the views expressed here are not truly typical of the average CAP member.  There are some very good contributors here with level-headed comments and contributions.  Others are here just to stir the pot.  I appreciate your desire to learn more about CAP and how we work, just please don't let this forum be your impression of the organization.

[flyboy53]

Yes, and I've grown to appreciate and respect every one of them -- even when there's a difference of opinion.

[meganite]

My unit, and the mutual-aid network to which my unit belongs, have historically not found the CAP to be an effective resource.   We almost never called them.  However, recently my unit has discovered a refreshing surge of "We Can" spirit in our local squadron, and my colleagues and I are working diligently with the hard-working leaders there to grow and develop our relationship.

The first part makes me really sad, but at least the second part gives me hope. I want to help with SAR missions! I've seen this "can do" attitude where I am anyway, and I hope it continues to flourish. I hope we CAP members can increasingly perform our missions efficiently and effectively, and I fully intend to be a part of that.

I'm not sure exactly what 2B refers to (I'm new around here) but I know that if I ever had to quit going to CAP meetings for financial/whatever reasons I would still want to know what's going on here. Granted, an internet forum may not be the best place to find out about such things, but it may be one of the only ways an outsider can keep up with things. I say don't ban any member unless they're being obnoxious.

[Eclipse]

I'm not sure exactly what 2B refers to...

The CAP Form (CAPF) 2b is the one used to process membership terminations, both voluntary and involuntary.

The terms "2b'ed" is used both jokingly and as a threat in the same way "Court Martial-ed" is in the military.  A completed CAPF2b, fully processed, means you are no longer a member (for whatever reason).   

The nature of the 2b would indicate whether you can ever rejoin.

[meganite]

Thanks for the explanation! I was starting to wonder if I could rejoin if I had to leave for personal or financial reasons

[Fly Boy]

2Bs or not 2Bs, That is the question. 

[Eclipse]

Thanks for the explanation! I was starting to wonder if I could rejoin if I had to leave for personal or financial reasons

People usually just "fade away", dropping off the rosters when their memberships lapse for non-renewal.  I've done one myself, but it is rare to process a 2b for a voluntary separation.  In a lot of those cases it is someone with impending doom who games the system by "quitting before they are fired...", with the intention of rejoining elsewhere or when the heat is off.

Whether those people can rejoin later depends on how well the situation was documented, and how much due diligence the "new" CC does with the application.  I've had more than a couple come up where a well-written memo in the IG file, and/or elephantine memory saved us from repeating past mistakes with someone not suited for CAP.

[a2capt]

^^ Yup ... and even then, if you know you've done "bad" and try to submit a 2B before the Effluent hits the Grater, it's possible to get a stop put to that paperwork.

-----

Lots of political connotations in the whole process. Easiest to just back off, do your thing at your local/unit level and outlive 'em, rather than fight 'em. 

[bosshawk]

If you want easy, just stop participating, stop going to meetings and let your membership expire.  It does absolutely no good to raise a fuss: nobody will listen and it simply raises your blood pressure.

[Sgt.Pain]

What the heck is a 2B??? lol


^^
Scratch that. Didn't read the threads above