Force protection and armed CAP members

[Eclipse]

Well, again in my state it is a non-issue.  If you are carrying you are either law enforcement (or some derivative), or breaking the law.

[Major Lord]

Which State are you in? Wisconsin or Illinois?

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

IL

[Krapenhoeffer]

Oh, Please. You just said in the next sentence that you wait until the police have radioed "area clear". An urban environment secured by armed police officers is not the same thing as a wooded area where help is literally hours away.

There is a big difference between an area where shooting is currently going on, and an area where my gut instincts tell me that quite a few people are packing heat, which where I live, is illegal.

And I say nuts, because the situations being thrown around are "what-ifs"

What-if questions have no place here. Nor do they have a place anywhere.

The regulations are just fine and dandy the way they are. And besides, if CAP were to change the regulation, you can be sure that suddenly, all AFAMs would go bye bye.

If you're worried about needing a gun on an ES mission, the Sheriff's department would be more than happy to send a deputy out with your team.

(Most Sheriffs Depts. and Police Depts. don't know the first thing about SAR, at least in my neck of the woods)

I have not argued against a persons Constitutional right to own a weapon; the Supreme Court has upheld this time and time again, but what you have to realize is that when you signed the Form 12, you agreed to go by CAP regulation. And the regulation is clear, and it isn't going to be changed anytime soon.

[Spaceman3750]

OK, so here's a question. Let's say I'm the person in charge of a UDF team that is tracking a beacon into a known drug area where people running around in BDUs are not generally welcome. Do I:

a - Be as positive as I can that it is in this "unsafe area" and call IC to advise we terminate the sortie.
b - Be as positive as I can that it is in this "unsafe area" and call IC to ask him to request LEO assistance. What if the local PD or Sheriff's Department doesn't have anyone to spare?
c - Continue as normal.

Of course, in reality all of this would depend on the situation and team makeup (I would probably think two or three times before I took 14 year old C/Snuffy into this situation, LEO escort or not), but just for discussion's sake.

[zonaman]

It's my understanding that, CAP members (21 and older) in Alaska are mandated by the state to carry fire arms while on a SAR or ES mission. I'm now curious how that works, when it seems people are spitting out regs that would make this (fire arms in Alaska) imposable.

[Krapenhoeffer]

The regulations clearly state that if required by state law, CAP members are authorized to carry firearms. Then and only then.

@Spaceman3750: B. You shouldn't have trouble getting help from the Sheriff or local PD, and if necessary, you can get AFRCC to ask for help.

However, if there is no way to get Law Enforcement on the scene, you need to resort to either:

option a
or
option Polo shirt 

[zonaman]

^^^^^
That I understand.

[N Harmon]

I've never known a person to be as good at talking his way out of a fight as this guy. Yet he still carries that .357 in his tool belt because even he knows talking only gets you so far

Gambling is probably a TOS violation (as would turning this discussion political), however I would bet you $10 that if his company ever found out he'd be fired on the spot.

Any cable guy that I got wind of with a gun would be explaining it to a police officer as he watched a different tech go into my house.

Ridiculous.

1. He is a contractor, not an employee. Thus, he is only subject to the conditions of the contracting arrangement, which does not prohibit him from carrying.

2. He doesn't go into anyone's home. His job is only to disconnect people who have not paid their bill.  The cable companies themselves are more than happy to do the installs.

[Eclipse]

I don't believe that people who advocate gun rights are "nuts" any more than people who don't carry are "sheep", but...

...this isn't the "wild west", either, and the sad fact is that guns in the home are more likely to injure or kill the owner or a family member as to be used to defend against an invader.

[NCRblues]

I don't believe that people who advocate gun rights are "nuts" any more than people who don't carry are "sheep", but...

...this isn't the "wild west", either, and the sad fact is that guns in the home are more likely to injure or kill the owner or a family member as to be used to defend against an invader.

? Really.... can u cite that for me? or is this just chicago anti gun babble?

[Eclipse]

I've never known a person to be as good at talking his way out of a fight as this guy. Yet he still carries that .357 in his tool belt because even he knows talking only gets you so far

Gambling is probably a TOS violation (as would turning this discussion political), however I would bet you $10 that if his company ever found out he'd be fired on the spot.

Any cable guy that I got wind of with a gun would be explaining it to a police officer as he watched a different tech go into my house.

Ridiculous.

1. He is a contractor, not an employee. Thus, he is only subject to the conditions of the contracting arrangement, which does not prohibit him from carrying.

I doubt that, seriously.  There may be no overt prohibition, but I guarantee when the company finds out they are history.
Anyone with a lick of common sense is not doing business with any cable company that allows its "contractors" to carry weapons. 

My property, my rules.   Tell it to the PD.

[Eclipse]

I don't believe that people who advocate gun rights are "nuts" any more than people who don't carry are "sheep", but...

...this isn't the "wild west", either, and the sad fact is that guns in the home are more likely to injure or kill the owner or a family member as to be used to defend against an invader.

? Really.... can u cite that for me? or is this just chicago anti gun babble?

Google is your friend.

[N Harmon]

I've never known a person to be as good at talking his way out of a fight as this guy. Yet he still carries that .357 in his tool belt because even he knows talking only gets you so far

Gambling is probably a TOS violation (as would turning this discussion political), however I would bet you $10 that if his company ever found out he'd be fired on the spot.

Any cable guy that I got wind of with a gun would be explaining it to a police officer as he watched a different tech go into my house.

Ridiculous.

1. He is a contractor, not an employee. Thus, he is only subject to the conditions of the contracting arrangement, which does not prohibit him from carrying.

My property, my rules.   Tell it to the PD.

And the PD will tell you they are sorry, but easements and public utility right-of-ways trump your rules.

[Eclipse]

And the PD will tell you they are sorry, but easements and public utility right-of-ways trump your rules.

To what level of ridiculous do you intend to take this conversation?

Here's one for you:

"Homeowner with a CCW meets Cable Guy with CCW."  The "misunderstanding" results in two funerals.

[wuzafuzz]

...the sad fact is that guns in the home are more likely to injure or kill the owner or a family member as to be used to defend against an invader.

This is only accurate when the folks with guns are fools or are already criminals, which certainly isn't the case for most gun owners.

[Eclipse]

...the sad fact is that guns in the home are more likely to injure or kill the owner or a family member as to be used to defend against an invader.

This is only accurate when the folks with guns are fools or are already criminals, which certainly isn't the case for most gun owners.

Sorry - the same could be said for cars.

Most gun owners buy a gun and think they can hold it sideways because it looks cooler that way.  Very few ever take any formal
training.

[jeders]

OK, so here's a question. Let's say I'm the person in charge of a UDF team that is tracking a beacon into a known drug area where people running around in BDUs are not generally welcome. Do I:

a - Be as positive as I can that it is in this "unsafe area" and call IC to advise we terminate the sortie.
b - Be as positive as I can that it is in this "unsafe area" and call IC to ask him to request LEO assistance. What if the local PD or Sheriff's Department doesn't have anyone to spare?
c - Continue as normal.

Of course, in reality all of this would depend on the situation and team makeup (I would probably think two or three times before I took 14 year old C/Snuffy into this situation, LEO escort or not), but just for discussion's sake.

I deal with this quite regularly on some of my GT missions. It's solved quite easily, when I come into a town to do some df work, I call the local Sheriff/PD office and request an escort. This does three things, first it gives me some safety in case I'm working in an area known to have drug traffickers. Second, it makes it quicker and easier should I need to enter private property to shut down a beacon, which I would call them for anyway. Third, it keeps everyone on good relations by involving them early.

And no, the local sheriff's deputies, at least around these parts, are not too busy. We usually get two or three cars escorting us because they don't have much else to do.

[wuzafuzz]

...the sad fact is that guns in the home are more likely to injure or kill the owner or a family member as to be used to defend against an invader.

This is only accurate when the folks with guns are fools or are already criminals, which certainly isn't the case for most gun owners.

I sent my prior post before considering relevance to the thread topic, which isn't firearms in the home.  Apologies for my participation in severe thread drift.

Hopefully we'll get back to intelligent debate on the topic as it applies to CAP.  Any fresh ideas out there?  Or...are we reduced to repeating the same points ad nauseum?

 

[Eclipse]

Busy or not, a good way to meet locals with CCW is to be roaming around in camouflage with something that looks like a rifle (folded L-Per at night) without LEA support.

More than once I've been on a mission where local PD showed up and commented that they had been getting calls about the above.