When is it time to start the AAR process on COVID-19 at the national level?

Started by Holding Pattern, June 01, 2022, 10:57:00 PM

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Holding Pattern

What areas are you curious to see addressed in the AAR if done?

When do you think it should be done?

What "uncomfortable conversations" should be discussed?

Toad1168

Toad

Toad1168

Nevermind, After Action Review.

I am dumb, but it is Friday afternoon.  My brain hurts.

 ;D
Toad

etodd

Quote from: Toad1168 on June 03, 2022, 09:11:27 PM...After Action Review.


Sounds like something that would take two years at best, and by that time we'll be in the midst of Monkeypox (with different guidelines)  and Covid will be like the flu. And some new horror will just be coming out.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

PHall

Well you can't have an AAR until the event is over. Has the WHO declared the Pandemic over yet?

RiverAux

Not that I'd expect anyone to do an AAR in CAP, but there isn't anything that says for long-running events that you couldn't do an interim AAR covering certain operational periods.  In an event this long probably a lot of the early lessons have probably already been forgotten. 

OldGuy

Oh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: PHall on June 04, 2022, 03:58:56 PMWell you can't have an AAR until the event is over. Has the WHO declared the Pandemic over yet?

Then periodic SITREP Reviews and operational brief/debriefs would be appropriate.

Eclipse

Quote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?

Nothing to do with CAP.

"That Others May Zoom"

RangerConlin

In case people missed it, CAPR60-1 received an update on June 1st repealing all the COVID related waivers for PT, encampment, etc.  I'd say this means its probably time to start the AAR.

etodd

Monkeypox or whatever comes next ... will have its own new and different gov't guidelines and procedures. CAP Hdqs will need to make decisions at that time based on what is doled out by Uncle Sam. It'll always be different. So, I'm just wondering what would be gained by an AAR of this one? Very little may be applied to the next situation.  IDK, just pondering.

(I mean other than a few folks being put in charge of an AAR, and writing a report that gets them lauded at the next National Meeting.)
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

RiverAux

Theres never a bad time to examine your actions and try to figure out what you could have done better.  Sure, the next disease may have different control measures, but taking the time to think through how to think about such actions in a CAP context could still help.  But, we don't do AARs for massive SAR or DR missions, so no reason to think it will be done for this.

JohhnyD

Quote from: Eclipse on June 06, 2022, 12:55:15 PM
Quote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?

Nothing to do with CAP.
I disagree. CAP shutdown the cadet program with no science behind that decision. The losses were real, and we may never fully recover.

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

heliodoc

I agree with Eclipse...nothing to do with CAP

But then CAP has very little to do with the most vulnerable....can tell by the training events in those very classes....I still hear CAP members...I don't wan to take my vaca over FEMA and EMA sponsored courses

Just like first response has nothing to do with CAP

ICS in its FULL realm, CAP really hasn't adopted very well and if one looks at "CAPR" 60-3 and how outdated it is

Yeah, its no wonder not many EMAs have anything to do with CAP

A hodge podge of activities flagged as a National resource needs alot of hep here in the hinterlands of the Midwest

TheSkyHornet

I think it's entirely fair to conduct a review of the impacts of the decisions, both the pros and cons of them.

We should definitely have archived reviews so that we can better plan for future events of a similar nature, so we're not making decisions with no historical experience. The impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, and the fact that we're still subjected to future pandemics, should definitely be something that is assessed using "look back" data and outcomes.

jeders

Quote from: JohhnyD on June 08, 2022, 02:37:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 06, 2022, 12:55:15 PM
Quote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?

Nothing to do with CAP.
I disagree. CAP shutdown the cadet program with no science behind that decision. The losses were real, and we may never fully recover.

CAP, in response to available guidance and varying government mandates, shut down in person operations. While yes, there were some membership losses, the decision to do so was driven primarily by external forces. So as Eclipse said, it really had nothing to do with CAP.

As for your assertion that the losses were real and that we may never recover; I would say that the losses were mostly those members who weren't really active to begin with and were essentially empty shirts. And while nationally we have not yet recovered to pre-pandemic membership levels (we're about 10,000 total members below where we were in Feb 2020), at least locally we have more total members and more active members than we've had in 20 years. YMMV.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: jeders on June 08, 2022, 03:55:04 PMCAP, in response to available guidance and varying government mandates, shut down in person operations. While yes, there were some membership losses, the decision to do so was driven primarily by external forces. So as Eclipse said, it really had nothing to do with CAP.

They're still decisions that impact CAP. Even if it's by mandate, it should go into the discussion notes as to why the decision was made.

And not every CAP closure was due to mandates. Some wings went back into a lesser phase without any NHQ requirement to do so.

QuoteAs for your assertion that the losses were real and that we may never recover; I would say that the losses were mostly those members who weren't really active to begin with and were essentially empty shirts. And while nationally we have not yet recovered to pre-pandemic membership levels (we're about 10,000 total members below where we were in Feb 2020), at least locally we have more total members and more active members than we've had in 20 years. YMMV.

This, I don't agree with. I think this is something that is a major assumption about what goes on in other units. A lot of members were very active pre-COVID.

But let's be mindful that many of our members, particularly cadets, "grew up" during the last two years. 12-year-olds became 14-year-olds. High school juniors became college freshmen. Some of the changed during that time.

We also had to adapt to a new environment for learning not seen much in school grades for most of our members, especially those who went/go to school in a public (in-person) setting. CAP changed. They didn't care what what they were left with.

Unfortunately, many members didn't stick around to see what "CAP is like" after remobilizing. They remembered what "CAP was like." Likewise, we have a number of members today that have no idea what "CAP was like" pre-COVID because they joined under an entirely different program than what it used to be.

Some units bounced back to where they were pre-COVID. Others grew, many for the better. A number of units do far better today than they did pre-COVID. Others are still trying to figure things out, particularly with a lesser experienced staff.

JohhnyD

Quote from: jeders on June 08, 2022, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: JohhnyD on June 08, 2022, 02:37:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 06, 2022, 12:55:15 PM
Quote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?

Nothing to do with CAP.
I disagree. CAP shutdown the cadet program with no science behind that decision. The losses were real, and we may never fully recover.

CAP, in response to available guidance and varying government mandates, shut down in person operations. While yes, there were some membership losses, the decision to do so was driven primarily by external forces. So as Eclipse said, it really had nothing to do with CAP.

As for your assertion that the losses were real and that we may never recover; I would say that the losses were mostly those members who weren't really active to begin with and were essentially empty shirts. And while nationally we have not yet recovered to pre-pandemic membership levels (we're about 10,000 total members below where we were in Feb 2020), at least locally we have more total members and more active members than we've had in 20 years. YMMV.
Nope. My experience is that many cadet families grew disillusioned and are never coming back. This is our future and we squandered it.

NHQ chose expedience over leadership. As they have on a number of woke subjects, and we may never recover. I would not ever allow my children to go to another overnight activity, for example, where mixed sex dorms are allowed because of wokeness. I suspect my time in the organization grows short, after 5 decades. The banning of people for dissent here is simply a reflection of the wokeness throughout. Facts no longer matter, only being politically correct does.

We had a great 8 decade run. Sad that it ends this way.

jeders

Quote from: JohhnyD on June 09, 2022, 03:08:36 AMMy experience is that many cadet families grew disillusioned and are never coming back.

I think we've all seen a lot of that, and not just over the last two years but over the last 80 years. This is nothing new or unique to Covid. The job now is to build up your local program and recruit new people.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse