Congratulations, your're the new National Commander...now what.

Started by Nick Critelli, July 15, 2007, 02:42:34 PM

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Eagle400

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on July 15, 2007, 08:40:46 PMHow do you 2b someone without their knowledge?  Put them on "Double-Secret Probation" first?

Right now, CAP does not require people who are 2b'd to know their membership has been terminated.  Probation is optional, as is a membership termination board.  There was a thread about this very thing.  Topic: Mandatory 2b Hearings? A possible end to potential Abuse?

Tags - MIKE

Skyray

QuoteHow do you 2b someone without their knowledge?  Put them on "Double-Secret Probation" first?

It is actually pretty easy if you are only looking at the effect and not the legality.  You send a note to National that says "Dpn't let this guy renew because I object to him, and oh, by the way, don't tell him about it, just round file his application."  Legal? Of course not.  Effective? Extremely.  Some of you guys up around the Gold Coast go get Ray Hayden to put in an application and see what happens to it.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

Major Lord

Non-renewals were abolished years ago. You can 2B someone without their knowledge I suppose, if you can't find them. ( No-call, no-show, etc) but I have not heard of anyone other than skips being 2b'd In absentia.

The 2B can be initiated without the member becoming aware, but I don't see how you could 2B a memeber without theur becoing aware of it and having the chance to appeal ( The which all members are entitled)

Kach, you 've almost got my vote for NC, but where do you stand on Kilts?

Capt. Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

bricktonfire


RiverAux

People should keep in mind that the National Commander can only do so much within the current structure.  They can politic and urge that people vote for various changes, but there is a limit to what they can do on their own.  Some of you have been answering the question as if you would prefer that they have dictatorial powers.

Seriously, I would take a very close look at the CAP budget (which should be posted on the national web page) and headquarters structure.  I would find a way to totally redeisgn the NHQ web site to make it more user friendly.  I would ensure that all official meeting agendas are made available to everyone in CAP well before a meeting.  I would authorize any CAP member to contact any CAP corporate officer directly with their concerns about new proposals or existing regulations (would probably require a regulation change to make official, so I'd have to campaign for that).  I would sit down with appropriate AF officials and discuss how CAP can help them in regards to ES as well as potential uses of CAP for AF augmentation and I would instruct all Wing commanders to do the same with AF bases and any other AF units in their states.    

Now, all of the above are fairly small-scale changes that could be done without a lot of trouble.  Almost everything else I'd like to do would involve changing CAP or AF regs or both or federal laws.  Frankly, the list would have to be narrowed down quite a bit as you can only get so much done.  

Skyray

QuoteNon-renewals were abolished years ago. You can 2B someone without their knowledge I suppose, if you can't find them.

I would respectfully disagree with your first point.  The paragraph 2D was abolished years ago.  You remember, that was the one where the wing commander or above could de-member someone without hearing or appeal.  But it has survived in the National Commander and certain members of the National Board's ability to direct the actions of the membership staff and "lose" or reject certain applications.  I appealed just such an action to the MARB and I have a written response from former National Legal Officer Scott Hamilton that such appeals are the privilege of membership, and since my membership was terminated, I am not entitled to appeal.

As far as the 2B without knowledge of the member; you simply don't notify him.  Solves a couple of problems, including the one of hearing a timely appeal.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

flyguy06

Quote from: sandman on July 15, 2007, 04:26:11 PM

My focus on the cadet program would reset all ranks to an enlisted program, E-1 through E-9 using the same curiculum. Spaatz cadets would earn E-9 with one or two exceptional cadets able to earn "Chief Master Sergeant of the Cadet Corps". Recognition would come from medals / ribbons. Rank insignia optionally (or not) sewn onto uniforms. Along that line, I would like to increase the operational capability of cadets over 18 years old.


And if we did that, how would we have cadet commanders and leders at cadet encampments? the whole purpose of the cadet program is to prepare cadets to be officers. So, they need officer training.

RogueLeader

Quote from: Nick Critelli, Lt Col CAP on July 15, 2007, 05:00:25 PM
Good comments so far.  Keep this in mind:


1.  You have no power on your own...only what you get from the BoG, NEC, NB and ultimately the membership.  You must bring them on board or history has shown that they will quickly turn on you. 

2.  Post only YOUR ideas; don't critique others.  We'll get everyone's ideas on the table then we'll evaluate them against the following criteria:  1) Acceptability...will the BoG,NEC,NB and membership accept them; 2) Feasibility....is the vision/plan feasible within our present legal structure; 3) Capability...does the vision/plan make CAP more capable in its three missions: ES,AE&CP, 4) Economics: is the vision/plan economically responsible.

NC
Bump
WYWG DP

GRW 3340

Skyray

You guys seem to be missing the point that the National Commander is answerable to No One except people he appoints and holds dominion over.  It has worked in the past because we had National Commanders with too much integrity to eavesdrop on Region Conference calls testing for loyalty.  The accession to office paradigm is what must be changed.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

SARMedTech

Quote from: CaptLord on July 15, 2007, 08:09:34 PM
I would lobby Congress for an exemption to the Posse Comitatus Act ( although we are only questionably subject to the PCA anyway) so that we can expand the scope of our mission, AND reissue our Charter to allow Combatant missions ( someone has to sink those Al Quaida submarines.....)

This would allow us to carry out real homeland security missions, counter-narcotics missions, border security, kidnap surveillance, etc. without having to writhe around some very legalistic limitations. Our current SAR mission is on the ropes, and we need to grow or die! We don't have falling memberships because people want more powerpoint presentations. We are falling apart because we are directionless and impotent.

If they don't want us, or won't let us do real world missions in support of America, we should just focus on using all those airplanes and other assets to do the only thing CAP is really good for: Cadet Programs! There is no more vibrant, worthwhile, and enthusiastic group of people in CAP than CP people.

Oh, and of course as the new commander, I would create dozens of new uniforms all the time, including Kilts, and lobby members to obtain CCW permits. Of course, we would have to have a Power Point Officer at every echelon of command, naturally...

Capt. Lord



I do mean this as a serious response to your post. First off, how are you going to make sure that all members have FOID cards, that is, if their state requires them?  What will be the requirement to be able to be armed and how often will members have to qualify and re-qualify? Who decides who shoots "well-enough" to qualify to be an armed member performing the tasks that you mention? With the fact that border patrol agents have been charged with shooting people in the back and they do that job full time with the appropriate training, how are you going to send a bunch of trigger happy CAP members out to patrol the Mexican border (ok Canadian too, so as not to be prejudice)? What firearm is standard issue? What is the force continuum? I regularly compete in long distance (in excess of 500 yards) target competitions with a .50 cal and a Springfield .45-70 Trapdoor. Do I qualify for the CAP Sniper Badge? Im hoping that I just misread your tone and that you were being sarcastic. If not, could we get the experimental 4.46 armor piercing round pushed through so as to be able to shoot through engine blocks and knock the props off planes?  I mean if we are going to do this, lets do it right.  ;) Also, what type of ballistic vests will we be wearing and do those of us who are CAP snipers have to wear the ghillie suits and if so, will there be an AF and a CAP distinctive fat and fuzzy version? Oh wait, if we are out there shooting at people, that would me a field operation and we might be able to get the AF to let us wear boonies...WOW! this could be great.  Ooh and tanks, can we get tanks?!? And maybe the ground fleet could include armored hum-v's.

Actually, I am not totally opposed to arming CAP members to allow, say GT members, to assist the US Border Patrol, though I think the qualifications and security clearances would have to be pretty high and then we would also have to institute drug testing. Do we do any drug testing now?  With the pilots?
"Corpsman Up!"

"...The distinct possibility of dying slow, cold and alone...but you also get the chance to save lives, and there is no greater calling in the world than that."

Major Lord

Quote from: Skyray on July 15, 2007, 09:28:26 PM
QuoteNon-renewals were abolished years ago. You can 2B someone without their knowledge I suppose, if you can't find them.

I would respectfully disagree with your first point.  The paragraph 2D was abolished years ago.  You remember, that was the one where the wing commander or above could de-member someone without hearing or appeal.  But it has survived in the National Commander and certain members of the National Board's ability to direct the actions of the membership staff and "lose" or reject certain applications.  I appealed just such an action to the MARB and I have a written response from former National Legal Officer Scott Hamilton that such appeals are the privilege of membership, and since my membership was terminated, I am not entitled to appeal.

As far as the 2B without knowledge of the member; you simply don't notify him.  Solves a couple of problems, including the one of hearing a timely appeal.

Ahhh, I take your point. Non-renewals of course would only apply to members. It sounds like in your case your membership lapsed, and you lost the right of the MARB process? I think it is well within the purview of CAP to discriminate ( perhaps that is the wrong word...) in allowing applicants entry ( in fact, they should choose to exercise a little discrimination more often in my opinion) If you were denied acceptance based on belonging to a protected class, ( Race, creed, color, gender, lifestyle, etc) you would have legal recourse. If they simply don't like you because you are a sharp stick in their eye, I would not think you would have options. Just keep applying until they cash your check....

Capt. Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

SARMedTech

Quote from: Skyray on July 15, 2007, 09:37:12 PM
You guys seem to be missing the point that the National Commander is answerable to No One except people he appoints and holds dominion over.  It has worked in the past because we had National Commanders with too much integrity to eavesdrop on Region Conference calls testing for loyalty.  The accession to office paradigm is what must be changed.

Arent those sorts of things generally dealt  by use of the time honored tradition of coup d'tat.
"Corpsman Up!"

"...The distinct possibility of dying slow, cold and alone...but you also get the chance to save lives, and there is no greater calling in the world than that."

Major Lord

Quote from: SARMedTech on July 15, 2007, 09:46:44 PM
Quote from: CaptLord on July 15, 2007, 08:09:34 PM
I would lobby Congress for an exemption to the Posse Comitatus Act ( although we are only questionably subject to the PCA anyway) so that we can expand the scope of our mission, AND reissue our Charter to allow Combatant missions ( someone has to sink those Al Quaida submarines.....)

This would allow us to carry out real homeland security missions, counter-narcotics missions, border security, kidnap surveillance, etc. without having to writhe around some very legalistic limitations. Our current SAR mission is on the ropes, and we need to grow or die! We don't have falling memberships because people want more powerpoint presentations. We are falling apart because we are directionless and impotent.

If they don't want us, or won't let us do real world missions in support of America, we should just focus on using all those airplanes and other assets to do the only thing CAP is really good for: Cadet Programs! There is no more vibrant, worthwhile, and enthusiastic group of people in CAP than CP people.

Oh, and of course as the new commander, I would create dozens of new uniforms all the time, including Kilts, and lobby members to obtain CCW permits. Of course, we would have to have a Power Point Officer at every echelon of command, naturally...

Capt. Lord



I do mean this as a serious response to your post. First off, how are you going to make sure that all members have FOID cards, that is, if their state requires them?  What will be the requirement to be able to be armed and how often will members have to qualify and re-qualify? Who decides who shoots "well-enough" to qualify to be an armed member performing the tasks that you mention? With the fact that border patrol agents have been charged with shooting people in the back and they do that job full time with the appropriate training, how are you going to send a bunch of trigger happy CAP members out to patrol the Mexican border (ok Canadian too, so as not to be prejudice)? What firearm is standard issue? What is the force continuum? I regularly compete in long distance (in excess of 500 yards) target competitions with a .50 cal and a Springfield .45-70 Trapdoor. Do I qualify for the CAP Sniper Badge? Im hoping that I just misread your tone and that you were being sarcastic. If not, could we get the experimental 4.46 armor piercing round pushed through so as to be able to shoot through engine blocks and knock the props off planes?  I mean if we are going to do this, lets do it right.  ;) Also, what type of ballistic vests will we be wearing and do those of us who are CAP snipers have to wear the ghillie suits and if so, will there be an AF and a CAP distinctive fat and fuzzy version? Oh wait, if we are out there shooting at people, that would me a field operation and we might be able to get the AF to let us wear boonies...WOW! this could be great.  Ooh and tanks, can we get tanks?!? And maybe the ground fleet could include armored hum-v's.

Actually, I am not totally opposed to arming CAP members to allow, say GT members, to assist the US Border Patrol, though I think the qualifications and security clearances would have to be pretty high and then we would also have to institute drug testing. Do we do any drug testing now?  With the pilots?

Hopefully, despite our harsh last words, you recognized my last paragraph as being tongue-in-cheek. That being said, a clarification of the Posse Comitatus Act would open the door to allowing members who may be otherwise lawfully armed ( that would be everyone in Florida and about 9 of us in California) to carry firearms on GT and Air missions. Ghillie suits of course would have to be Aquamarine to distinguish us from the little- known Lichtensteinian Civil Air patrol Sniper Corp....

In all seriousness, firearms on CAP activities is not the hill I choose to die on. I am as serious as a heart attack when I suggest widening our mission by eliminating the constraints of the Posse Comitatus Act. The U.S. Coast Guard and their Auxiliary might serve as a good model ( Well, except for being squids, cleaning bilges and such)

Capt. Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Skyray

Quote from: SARMedTech on July 15, 2007, 09:48:44 PM
Quote from: Skyray on July 15, 2007, 09:37:12 PM
You guys seem to be missing the point that the National Commander is answerable to No One except people he appoints and holds dominion over.  It has worked in the past because we had National Commanders with too much integrity to eavesdrop on Region Conference calls testing for loyalty.  The accession to office paradigm is what must be changed.

Arent those sorts of things generally dealt  by use of the time honored tradition of coup d'tat.

W, Why do you think the guy always carries a gun and if rumour is to be believed is lately accompanied by up to six bodyguards?
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

SARMedTech

Quote from: CaptLord on July 15, 2007, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: SARMedTech on July 15, 2007, 09:46:44 PM
Quote from: CaptLord on July 15, 2007, 08:09:34 PM
I would lobby Congress for an exemption to the Posse Comitatus Act ( although we are only questionably subject to the PCA anyway) so that we can expand the scope of our mission, AND reissue our Charter to allow Combatant missions ( someone has to sink those Al Quaida submarines.....)

This would allow us to carry out real homeland security missions, counter-narcotics missions, border security, kidnap surveillance, etc. without having to writhe around some very legalistic limitations. Our current SAR mission is on the ropes, and we need to grow or die! We don't have falling memberships because people want more powerpoint presentations. We are falling apart because we are directionless and impotent.

If they don't want us, or won't let us do real world missions in support of America, we should just focus on using all those airplanes and other assets to do the only thing CAP is really good for: Cadet Programs! There is no more vibrant, worthwhile, and enthusiastic group of people in CAP than CP people.

Oh, and of course as the new commander, I would create dozens of new uniforms all the time, including Kilts, and lobby members to obtain CCW permits. Of course, we would have to have a Power Point Officer at every echelon of command, naturally...

Capt. Lord



I do mean this as a serious response to your post. First off, how are you going to make sure that all members have FOID cards, that is, if their state requires them?  What will be the requirement to be able to be armed and how often will members have to qualify and re-qualify? Who decides who shoots "well-enough" to qualify to be an armed member performing the tasks that you mention? With the fact that border patrol agents have been charged with shooting people in the back and they do that job full time with the appropriate training, how are you going to send a bunch of trigger happy CAP members out to patrol the Mexican border (ok Canadian too, so as not to be prejudice)? What firearm is standard issue? What is the force continuum? I regularly compete in long distance (in excess of 500 yards) target competitions with a .50 cal and a Springfield .45-70 Trapdoor. Do I qualify for the CAP Sniper Badge? Im hoping that I just misread your tone and that you were being sarcastic. If not, could we get the experimental 4.46 armor piercing round pushed through so as to be able to shoot through engine blocks and knock the props off planes?  I mean if we are going to do this, lets do it right.  ;) Also, what type of ballistic vests will we be wearing and do those of us who are CAP snipers have to wear the ghillie suits and if so, will there be an AF and a CAP distinctive fat and fuzzy version? Oh wait, if we are out there shooting at people, that would me a field operation and we might be able to get the AF to let us wear boonies...WOW! this could be great.  Ooh and tanks, can we get tanks?!? And maybe the ground fleet could include armored hum-v's.

Actually, I am not totally opposed to arming CAP members to allow, say GT members, to assist the US Border Patrol, though I think the qualifications and security clearances would have to be pretty high and then we would also have to institute drug testing. Do we do any drug testing now?  With the pilots?

Hopefully, despite our harsh last words, you recognized my last paragraph as being tongue-in-cheek. That being said, a clarification of the Posse Comitatus Act would open the door to allowing members who may be otherwise lawfully armed ( that would be everyone in Florida and about 9 of us in California) to carry firearms on GT and Air missions. Ghillie suits of course would have to be Aquamarine to distinguish us from the little- known Lichtensteinian Civil Air patrol Sniper Corp....

In all seriousness, firearms on CAP activities is not the hill I choose to die on. I am as serious as a heart attack when I suggest widening our mission by eliminating the constraints of the Posse Comitatus Act. The U.S. Coast Guard and their Auxiliary might serve as a good model ( Well, except for being squids, cleaning bilges and such)

Capt. Lord

Absolutely Capt.  Bygones are indeed bygones. I am curious what you mean about the USCGAUX serving as a model for eliminating the constraints of Posse Comitatus. They are not allowed to participate in any law enforcement activities as far as I know, except perhaps for container or fishing vessel inspections boardings where the Gold Side Coasties are not armed. Could you clarify, sir?

It took me alot of time and hemp rope to make my ghillie suit and I will not paint it ultramarine for anyone. Blaze orange, perhaps, but not ultramarine. (Throws the good Capt a wink and a salute). Would the tape on my suit say US Civil Air Patrol or just Civil Air Patrol and do you think my .45-70 Springfield would be adequate for CAP sniping, other than the fact that the muzzle blast can be seen for a mile in any direction? ("You want me on that wall...You NEED me on that wall!")
"Corpsman Up!"

"...The distinct possibility of dying slow, cold and alone...but you also get the chance to save lives, and there is no greater calling in the world than that."

RogueLeader

Quote from: RogueLeader on July 15, 2007, 09:31:15 PM
Quote from: Nick Critelli, Lt Col CAP on July 15, 2007, 05:00:25 PM
Good comments so far.  Keep this in mind:


1.  You have no power on your own...only what you get from the BoG, NEC, NB and ultimately the membership.  You must bring them on board or history has shown that they will quickly turn on you. 

2.  Post only YOUR ideas; don't critique others.  We'll get everyone's ideas on the table then we'll evaluate them against the following criteria:  1) Acceptability...will the BoG,NEC,NB and membership accept them; 2) Feasibility....is the vision/plan feasible within our present legal structure; 3) Capability...does the vision/plan make CAP more capable in its three missions: ES,AE&CP, 4) Economics: is the vision/plan economically responsible.

NC
Bump
Please follow the guidelines for this thread.
WYWG DP

GRW 3340

SARMedTech

Quote from: RogueLeader on July 15, 2007, 10:18:06 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on July 15, 2007, 09:31:15 PM
Quote from: Nick Critelli, Lt Col CAP on July 15, 2007, 05:00:25 PM
Good comments so far.  Keep this in mind:


1.  You have no power on your own...only what you get from the BoG, NEC, NB and ultimately the membership.  You must bring them on board or history has shown that they will quickly turn on you. 

2.  Post only YOUR ideas; don't critique others.  We'll get everyone's ideas on the table then we'll evaluate them against the following criteria:  1) Acceptability...will the BoG,NEC,NB and membership accept them; 2) Feasibility....is the vision/plan feasible within our present legal structure; 3) Capability...does the vision/plan make CAP more capable in its three missions: ES,AE&CP, 4) Economics: is the vision/plan economically responsible.

NC
Bump
Please follow the guidelines for this thread.

Given this admonition, if I were to be appointed Supreme Leader, I would work like the dickens to strengthen our ES program. I would argue that while it has the greatest potential, it is the one of our three stated missions that lives up to its goals the least. We have the potential to be one of the most prestigious and sought after ES agencies in the country, but I think we have to start taking ourselves seriously. There are so many areas that we could expand into within the realm of ES that is boggles the mind and alot of them could be accomplished with the training courses we already have in place and a few expansions here and there. Lets start looking at statistics about what the needs are in ES around the country and start training our personnel to meet those needs, BETTER than anyone else can. Why can we not modify our "tasking" by the USAF so that it is a foregone conclusion that when something like Katrina or 9/11 happens that we automatically begin to assemble and muster so that we can deploy in the service of our country and know that the phone will ring from the AF because they know that we can do the job as well or better than anyone else. Why did it take FEMA so long to get DR supplies to the Gulf Coast when we have what amounts to a small air force and a fleet of ground vehicles capable of loading up with supplies and heading down there. Could it be that one of the reasons that we are not more greatly tasked by the AF is that they are waiting for us to step up. What would happen if we had a Major General who met with the head of the AF and said, here is what we can do, here is what we can be trained to do, we are your auxiliary, so lets put our heads together and do this thing right if we are going to do it at all. Besides immediately giving the job to Major Carrales, that is what I would do.
"Corpsman Up!"

"...The distinct possibility of dying slow, cold and alone...but you also get the chance to save lives, and there is no greater calling in the world than that."

Nick Critelli

 :)  Keep on topic everyone.  AT THIS TIME his is about YOUR vision/plan ONLY  we'll get to critique later.


JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: CaptLord on July 15, 2007, 09:01:39 PM
Non-renewals were abolished years ago. You can 2B someone without their knowledge I suppose, if you can't find them. ( No-call, no-show, etc) but I have not heard of anyone other than skips being 2b'd In absentia.

The 2B can be initiated without the member becoming aware, but I don't see how you could 2B a memeber without theur becoing aware of it and having the chance to appeal ( The which all members are entitled)

Kach, you 've almost got my vote for NC, but where do you stand on Kilts?

Capt. Lord

Kilt policy?

Same as the Air Force's!

(Don't ask, don't tell)
Another former CAP officer

PhoenixRisen

Quote from: lilred36781 on July 15, 2007, 09:03:39 PM
make  Cap Part Of the U.S Air Force like the CGAUX

You mean make CAP the full-time Air Force Auxiliary?   ???