https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/events/2022-national-conference
From multiple sources across the tubes...
""Greetings, Teammates.
I am excited that we can have our National Conference in person this year. I can't wait to engage with CAP colleagues from across the organization in Louisville. Unfortunately, we will probably have an unwelcome guest in our midst at the conference — COVID-19.
I write to you today because of my work with the COVID-19 Plans Team, as an organizational leader, and your teammate. We are all tired of the pandemic and are ready to get back to normal. Unfortunately, COVID-19 is still with us, making many people sick across the country and in the world. The current variants are highly transmissible and much of the country is at the "high" level of risk, including Louisville.
(www.covidactnow.org). We have seen COVID-19 continue to spread at encampments, NCSAs, in our families, and in our workplaces. And in just two weeks, we have over 800 attendees planning to come together in Louisville to connect, collaborate, and celebrate. Because we need to make informed decisions, consider the following:
A member of the Command Team recently attended a non-CAP event at which everyone who didn't wear a mask was infected by COVID-19.
Our colleagues who have traveled to large gatherings outside CAP have contracted COVID-19. None of those events required masks.
Masking at large summer activities has minimized the spread of COVID-19 and allowed us to accomplish our mission(s).
We held a Command Council Meeting wearing masks in Washington, D.C., during a period of high transmission, and COVID-19 didn't spread.
Based on these experiences, Centers for Disease Control information, and my role as a risk manager, the data tells me wearing masks is the prudent thing to do. CAP's experience with multiple large activities this summer has proven that masks helped prevent attendees from getting sick. Therefore, Gen. Phelka and I have decided that masks will be required for all participants at CAP's National Conference this year.
I know wearing masks can be controversial for some. I am as tired of COVID-19 precautions as all of you are; however, we must protect ourselves and those we care about. We know and have demonstrated at other large-scale CAP events that masking works. Personally, I don't love wearing a mask, but I love my mom, who has COPD and is a cancer survivor; my brother, who has a rare blood disease; and my CAP friends, some of whom are older and some of whom are ill; so I do what I can. My heart tells me masking is the right thing to do, and our own results confirm that. Can we prevent all illness? No, we can't. Can we do our best to protect those we care about? Yes, we can. In my humble opinion, masking is a small price to pay to get to connect, collaborate, and celebrate with my friends and colleagues. We'll get through this together by adapting as we always do — I look forward to seeing you in Louisville!
Brig. Gen. Regena Aye
National Vice Commander"
Also interesting is now members are "Teammates"? Is that the corporatespeak term of 2022?
At least it's not "Airmen".
That would be a big 10-Nope from me (were I going).
Not because I have an issue with any organizaiton mandating masks (or other remediation), but
because there's simply no reason to subjective oneself to multiple days of fogged glasses
and being out of breath, just to sit through a bunch of old information, blue-sky
"wouldn't it be great if..." and "wasn't it great when..." presentations in a room full
of goobers wearing incorrect, non-N95 type masks, and/or wearing them incorrectly (cover
your nose and shave the beard grandpa).
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017-508.pdf
And of course, because eating is somewhat difficult while wearing a mask, the banquet will be a combo of
bedazzled ineffective masks, coupled with sitting shoulder to shoulder at banquet tables,
maskless, sipping soup, passing the bread bowl, and breathing on each other.
Especially in light of the CDC most recent "well at this point we don't know what to do, so
you guys are on your own while we deal with MonkeyPox...Peace Out!" guidelines.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/p0811-covid-guidance.html
Anyone who wants to wear one should do so, but if the fear of transmissibility is still
so high that there needs to be a mask mandate despite what the general population is doing...
...cancel the activity.
Or...
...if you are at higher risk for a serious case, or have people in your life who are,
just don't go. Don't expose yourself or others.
Safe, efficient, effective.
Despite the fact that the "new" map(s) (https://covidactnow.org/?s=38592608) have at times this summer been in a state which should have put the majority of the organization on Phase 0 (especially in light of all the mobility during Summer activities) there has been zero guidance or comment on Covid Posture since Feb2022.
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/covid-19-information-cena
One could certainly conjecture this is due to a "cross your fingers" attitude, knowing full
well that another drop-back to remote-only would probably be the effective end of CAP.
Also, anyone who has even causally looked through photos of this year's encampments and NCSAs
would know that the inconsistent and incorrect way masks are being utilized at most of
these events would in no way either prove or disprove their effectiveness, or any correlation
to being infected.
Wearing them in formation? Yes, no, sometimes, maybe, what was the question?
During PT? Um...
In the mess halls? Nope.
How about in quarters? Hmmm...
At the risk of seeming alarmist, if you're that concerned about it, MAKE VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE AN OPTION!!!!! I won't be attending it this year as I simply can't afford it, like many of our members. The past few times I did attend one, I really didn't get much out of it. I don't see any reason to go to another National Conference.
Quote from: arajca on August 15, 2022, 12:49:02 AMMAKE VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE AN OPTION!!!!
Agreed. Why this isn't an option is somewhat baffling.
This seems to be a hard pendulum swing by some organizations and employers as if it's possible to
just undo the last 2 Years by simply removing the virtual options from activities and work days.
The result, at least that I've seen, is often people voting with their feet.
Considering inflation, fuel prices, and the chaotic state of the air travel industry right now,
Covid might not even be the #1 factor for non-attendance.
Not that I've ever considered going to a National Conference, but if they are concerned about COVID to the extent that they are requiring masks then they could address Eclipse's issues fairly easily:
1. Have a short training session at the beginning of the conference showing people how to wear them.
2. Enforce it.
3. Cancel the banquet as there is no way to do that safely if airborne disease transmission is a concern.
Quote from: arajca on August 15, 2022, 12:49:02 AMI won't be attending it this year as I simply can't afford it, like many of our members.
Selective quote, but a key point, and not only for CAP events.
Cost of everything is rising. Personal travel to California soon, and the airfares were scary.
Soon as I hit Save I saw the other comment from Eclipse making the same point: "Considering inflation, fuel prices, and the chaotic state of the air travel industry right now, Covid might not even be the #1 factor for non-attendance."
If I was still active, there's no way i could justify the cost of this event.
There is no banquet this year.
If we didn't have formal uniforms and all that bling, my guess is that attendance would dwindle drastically.
I've never seen anything at a conference that could not have been sent out in an email. Send out the pdfs and powerpoints.
Roundtable discussions can be held all year long via zoom.
"But its the networking" ..... can be done so easily electronically these days in many ways.
JMHO ... YMMV.
Arajca's post, BRAVO!
Eclipse's post, BRAVO!
Quote from: etodd on August 15, 2022, 01:54:01 PMIf we didn't have formal uniforms and all that bling, my guess is that attendance would dwindle drastically.
I've never seen anything at a conference that could not have been sent out in an email. Send out the pdfs and powerpoints.
Roundtable discussions can be held all year long via zoom.
"But its the networking" ..... can be done so easily electronically these days in many ways.
BZ!
I think a lot of people also confuse the ability to network with the ability to drink in the bar or one's hotel room (en masse, sans mask).
I've been to several wing and one region conference.
I've yet to see a value-add from the national conference.
That said, I got more out of those things as a cadet than I did as a SM.
The banquet was a big deal for the cadets then.
I believe I got far more out of the virtual conferences and the virtual RSC as a SM than any of the physical conferences I did as a SM.
Without kids in the program I don't have as much invested in going to these conferences in the first place, but additional burdens like wearing a mask when I am certain that there will be no uniformity of n95 masks nor will fitment be done not only makes the entire thing security theater, but given the average age of CAP SMs I've seen at these conferences it makes it a dangerous level of security theater if the threat is significant enough to warrant masks in the first place.
---
As an aside, one of my squadron members has long covid and can't make it to these in person events anymore. Long covid is recognized now as an ADA line item when it comes to disabilities and not having a virtual accommodation for these conferences may start becoming an actionable issue, especially given we have proven that utility of virtual conferences.
https://www.hhs.gov/civil-rights/for-providers/civil-rights-covid19/guidance-long-covid-disability/index.html
Quote from: Jester on August 15, 2022, 12:50:51 PMThere is no banquet this year.
The "Saturday night event" is different than a banquet this year. Trying something new.
I'm still a little confused as to what it is and how it will look. (since, you know, I have the visual of what the banquet looks like locked in my head)
I'll know for sure Saturday after next.
Quote from: NIN on August 16, 2022, 11:44:42 AMThe "Saturday night event" is different than a banquet this year.
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/events/conference2022/saturday-night-at-the-museum
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJVZrZvS/night.jpg)
#superspreader
I believe the idea is that its more spread out than "8 people at a table and 80 tables" in "The Grand Poobah Ballroom."
I could be completely all wet on that. But thats the impression I got when it was described.
Something different than the old "rubber chicken banquet." (note: I don't mind a rubber chicken banquet now and again, but that's just me. Some folks don't want to go to the conference, some folks don't want to go to the banquet, whatever. To quote a buddy: "You do you, boo.")
#lifeisasuperspreaderevent #getusedtoit
Quote from: Eclipse on August 16, 2022, 02:51:07 PMQuote from: NIN on August 16, 2022, 11:44:42 AMThe "Saturday night event" is different than a banquet this year.
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/events/conference2022/saturday-night-at-the-museum
#superspreader
Is that the "special surprise?"
I believe it all comes down to go if you want to and don't go if you either don't want to or are concerned about Covid.
Covid isn't going away any time soon so you all might as well learn how to live with it.
Quote from: NIN on August 16, 2022, 11:44:42 AMQuote from: Jester on August 15, 2022, 12:50:51 PMThere is no banquet this year.
The "Saturday night event" is different than a banquet this year. Trying something new.
I'm still a little confused as to what it is and how it will look. (since, you know, I have the visual of what the banquet looks like locked in my head)
I'll know for sure Saturday after next.
The dress code confuses me. Looks like you can wear anything from mess dress to shorts and flip flops.......
Quote from: Toad1168 on August 17, 2022, 03:02:50 PMQuote from: NIN on August 16, 2022, 11:44:42 AMQuote from: Jester on August 15, 2022, 12:50:51 PMThere is no banquet this year.
The "Saturday night event" is different than a banquet this year. Trying something new.
I'm still a little confused as to what it is and how it will look. (since, you know, I have the visual of what the banquet looks like locked in my head)
I'll know for sure Saturday after next.
The dress code confuses me. Looks like you can wear anything from mess dress to shorts and flip flops.......
Me meeting the National Commander
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/l1J9PeKEoS7iNOhQA/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611135325a205bdb79f0e56192f3e9596e432b3d412&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
No Banquet means I might just check out early and save one night's hotel costs.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 14, 2022, 08:09:26 PMhttps://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/events/2022-national-conference
Also interesting is now members are "Teammates"? Is that the corporatespeak term of 2022?
At least it's not "Airmen".
The Air Force does this pretty regular now. Its annoying. At my unit, the Commander and the Chief say it a lot. Plus the CMSGT of the Air Force is big on "Teammates". Its how she addresses us in pretty much every piece of written communication she puts out whether official, on social media or in person.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 14, 2022, 08:09:26 PMhttps://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/events/2022-national-conference
Our colleagues who have traveled to large gatherings outside CAP have contracted COVID-19. None of those events required masks.
Masking at large summer activities has minimized the spread of COVID-19 and allowed us to accomplish our mission(s).
We held a Command Council Meeting wearing masks in Washington, D.C., during a period of high transmission, and COVID-19 didn't spread.
Highly scientific... I fly EMS helicopters all over the US, we arent required to wear masks when we fly patients and about 99% of us dont wear masks at all. Hospitals are starting to dump them unless your in direct patient contact. Some I go to dont care if you wear a mask at all. Our bases arent being closed for COVID nor is my company of almost 5000 people seeing any concerning rates of COVID around the line bases. We arent masking at drill anymore, we are eating in the DFAC unmasked. At work (medical) we are having conferences and very large training events where masks are no longer required, airline training centers, flightsafety, airports, airlines, law enforcement, fire, corrections. Nobody is requiring masks anymore unless a person individually wants to... but CAP has decided that based on "data" that they difinitively stop COVID. If CAP still feels they are needed going on year 3, then go for it. Id go with Eclipses suggestion, if, this is still a concern to the point where you are requiring masks, where most of the US has dumped them, then Id suggest not having it.
Quote from: FlyingPig on August 22, 2022, 09:08:19 PMId go with Eclipses suggestion, if, this is still a concern to the point where you are requiring masks, where most of the US has dumped them, then Id suggest not having it.
I think being concerned about COVID isn't being unreasonable, especially since you can mitigate the risk fairly successfully. Last summer we made it through a number of encampments and NCSAs with a fairly low spread of COVID at our activities and masks were required during those activities. This summer CAP saw a dramatic increase in cases of COVID spreading at CAP activities now that nobody is wearing masks. It's a pretty easy differential to spot.
I don't think anybody thinks masks protect you from catching COVID while in public or at an activity, but it does help prevent it from spreading. It is interesting that even after the first few summer activities saw many of them labeled as "super-spreader" events, a mid-course correction to require masks again was never implemented. Perhaps other issues with food preparation and the increase in disciplinary issues kept everyone too busy to also implement would have been an unpopular change. This is just purely a guess, but perhaps the rule change for the conference has to do with our conference goers tend to skew "high-risk" in age and simply wearing a mask to help protect your fellow volunteers isn't too much to ask.
It will be interesting to hear how enforcement of mask wearing goes since CAP rarely successfully enforces any other rules or regulations. Imagine the irony of the severely overweight member wearing blues being admonished for not wearing a mask.
Quote from: Fubar on August 23, 2022, 02:12:58 AMQuote from: FlyingPig on August 22, 2022, 09:08:19 PMId go with Eclipses suggestion, if, this is still a concern to the point where you are requiring masks, where most of the US has dumped them, then Id suggest not having it.
It will be interesting to hear how enforcement of mask wearing goes since CAP rarely successfully enforces any other rules or regulations. Imagine the irony of the severely overweight member wearing blues being admonished for not wearing a mask.
Knowing CAP, the mask wear enforcement will be the central focus of the event.
Anecdotally, the overlap of older / more overweight / sicker (because older) / unvaccinated is both a non-trivial part of the CAP demographic and tending towards the worst-case for severe Covid outcomes.
Quote from: Fubar on August 23, 2022, 02:12:58 AMQuote from: FlyingPig on August 22, 2022, 09:08:19 PMId go with Eclipses suggestion, if, this is still a concern to the point where you are requiring masks, where most of the US has dumped them, then Id suggest not having it.
I think being concerned about COVID isn't being unreasonable, especially since you can mitigate the risk fairly successfully. Last summer we made it through a number of encampments and NCSAs with a fairly low spread of COVID at our activities and masks were required during those activities. This summer CAP saw a dramatic increase in cases of COVID spreading at CAP activities now that nobody is wearing masks. It's a pretty easy differential to spot.
I don't think anybody thinks masks protect you from catching COVID while in public or at an activity, but it does help prevent it from spreading. It is interesting that even after the first few summer activities saw many of them labeled as "super-spreader" events, a mid-course correction to require masks again was never implemented. Perhaps other issues with food preparation and the increase in disciplinary issues kept everyone too busy to also implement would have been an unpopular change. This is just purely a guess, but perhaps the rule change for the conference has to do with our conference goers tend to skew "high-risk" in age and simply wearing a mask to help protect your fellow volunteers isn't too much to ask.
It will be interesting to hear how enforcement of mask wearing goes since CAP rarely successfully enforces any other rules or regulations. Imagine the irony of the severely overweight member wearing blues being admonished for not wearing a mask.
CAWG required masks indoors at their encampment this year. As of this moment no reported cases of Covid.
And we had 228 students and 78 cadre.
Quote from: PHall on August 23, 2022, 04:59:06 PMQuote from: Fubar on August 23, 2022, 02:12:58 AMQuote from: FlyingPig on August 22, 2022, 09:08:19 PMId go with Eclipses suggestion, if, this is still a concern to the point where you are requiring masks, where most of the US has dumped them, then Id suggest not having it.
I think being concerned about COVID isn't being unreasonable, especially since you can mitigate the risk fairly successfully. Last summer we made it through a number of encampments and NCSAs with a fairly low spread of COVID at our activities and masks were required during those activities. This summer CAP saw a dramatic increase in cases of COVID spreading at CAP activities now that nobody is wearing masks. It's a pretty easy differential to spot.
I don't think anybody thinks masks protect you from catching COVID while in public or at an activity, but it does help prevent it from spreading. It is interesting that even after the first few summer activities saw many of them labeled as "super-spreader" events, a mid-course correction to require masks again was never implemented. Perhaps other issues with food preparation and the increase in disciplinary issues kept everyone too busy to also implement would have been an unpopular change. This is just purely a guess, but perhaps the rule change for the conference has to do with our conference goers tend to skew "high-risk" in age and simply wearing a mask to help protect your fellow volunteers isn't too much to ask.
It will be interesting to hear how enforcement of mask wearing goes since CAP rarely successfully enforces any other rules or regulations. Imagine the irony of the severely overweight member wearing blues being admonished for not wearing a mask.
CAWG required masks indoors at their encampment this year. As of this moment no reported cases of Covid.
And we had 228 students and 78 cadre.
Missouri Wing did not require masks at encampment. 200 personnel, used normal mitigation techniques such as hand sanitizer. No instance of Covid.
Quote from: Toad1168 on August 23, 2022, 07:59:56 PMQuote from: PHall on August 23, 2022, 04:59:06 PMQuote from: Fubar on August 23, 2022, 02:12:58 AMQuote from: FlyingPig on August 22, 2022, 09:08:19 PMId go with Eclipses suggestion, if, this is still a concern to the point where you are requiring masks, where most of the US has dumped them, then Id suggest not having it.
I think being concerned about COVID isn't being unreasonable, especially since you can mitigate the risk fairly successfully. Last summer we made it through a number of encampments and NCSAs with a fairly low spread of COVID at our activities and masks were required during those activities. This summer CAP saw a dramatic increase in cases of COVID spreading at CAP activities now that nobody is wearing masks. It's a pretty easy differential to spot.
I don't think anybody thinks masks protect you from catching COVID while in public or at an activity, but it does help prevent it from spreading. It is interesting that even after the first few summer activities saw many of them labeled as "super-spreader" events, a mid-course correction to require masks again was never implemented. Perhaps other issues with food preparation and the increase in disciplinary issues kept everyone too busy to also implement would have been an unpopular change. This is just purely a guess, but perhaps the rule change for the conference has to do with our conference goers tend to skew "high-risk" in age and simply wearing a mask to help protect your fellow volunteers isn't too much to ask.
It will be interesting to hear how enforcement of mask wearing goes since CAP rarely successfully enforces any other rules or regulations. Imagine the irony of the severely overweight member wearing blues being admonished for not wearing a mask.
CAWG required masks indoors at their encampment this year. As of this moment no reported cases of Covid.
And we had 228 students and 78 cadre.
Missouri Wing did not require masks at encampment. 200 personnel, used normal mitigation techniques such as hand sanitizer. No instance of Covid.
We did as we were directed by the Wing Commander and the Wing Health Services Officer. Wasn't worth a fight.
Well the good news is a CAP Health Services Officer finally found something to do.
Quote from: FlyingPig on August 23, 2022, 10:06:21 PMWell the good news is a CAP Health Services Officer finally found something to do.
He's also a Group Commander in his spare time.
It should probably read "Hes a health services officer in his spare time". ;D
Quote from: FlyingPig on August 24, 2022, 04:10:10 PMIt should probably read "Hes a health services officer in his spare time". ;D
Well in his "real" life he is an MD.
Im always amazed at the 180 deg opinions on masking between doctors and hospitals. For the most part, at least the ones I fly into, few people to no people wear masks, they are pretty much gone in the states I fly in, but then CAP has activities in those same states where CAP mandates them Maybe at some point we'll be past wearing bandanas around our faces like we work in coal miners
Photos up on FB from NHQ for NatConf - adherence to mandatory masking is ... variable ... it seems.
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on August 26, 2022, 03:29:14 PMPhotos up on FB from NHQ for NatConf - adherence to mandatory masking is ... variable ... it seems.
Pretty much exactly as predicted...
https://photos.cap.gov/National-Conferences/2022
Quote from: Eclipse on August 26, 2022, 05:23:03 PMQuote from: NovemberWhiskey on August 26, 2022, 03:29:14 PMPhotos up on FB from NHQ for NatConf - adherence to mandatory masking is ... variable ... it seems.
Pretty much exactly as predicted...
https://photos.cap.gov/National-Conferences/2022
That's about right for CAP
Quote from: CAP9907 on August 26, 2022, 06:27:43 PMQuote from: Eclipse on August 26, 2022, 05:23:03 PMQuote from: NovemberWhiskey on August 26, 2022, 03:29:14 PMPhotos up on FB from NHQ for NatConf - adherence to mandatory masking is ... variable ... it seems.
Pretty much exactly as predicted...
https://photos.cap.gov/National-Conferences/2022
That's about right for CAP
That's about right for anywhere. CAP isn't special.
Based on information from imbedded informants on scene, masking is 50/50 and nobody cares. That warms my heart honestly. I stand corrected believing it would be a big deal.
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on August 26, 2022, 03:29:14 PMPhotos up on FB from NHQ for NatConf - adherence to mandatory masking is ... variable ... it seems.
Everyone was informed right off the top that removing masks for photos was encouraged and that
nobody would be running around telling people to honor the core values of CAP and follow the guidance of their leaders.
On the first day (Friday) pretty much everyone complied, by today (Saturday) after the big gathering in the morning, few people are complying. While no different than other conferences I've attended, CAP better should never suggest their core values somehow differentiates them from other organizations.
Quote from: UWONGO2 on August 27, 2022, 07:58:11 PMQuote from: NovemberWhiskey on August 26, 2022, 03:29:14 PMPhotos up on FB from NHQ for NatConf - adherence to mandatory masking is ... variable ... it seems.
Everyone was informed right off the top that removing masks for photos was encouraged and that nobody would be running around telling people to honor the core values of CAP and follow the guidance of their leaders.
On the first day (Friday) pretty much everyone complied, by today (Saturday) after the big gathering in the morning, few people are complying. While no different than other conferences I've attended, CAP better should never suggest their core values somehow differentiates them from other organizations.
It's about the only enforcement mechanism they got. It's not like we have the UCMJ hanging over us.
SSDD.
1 - NHQ establishes a policy, reg, whatever (often well after the barn doors are closed and
at member expense for time or money).
2 - Members who disagree or "aren't feeling it" simply ignore it, or willfully disobey.
3 - NHQ says "oh well", but leaves the policy, reg, whatever in place and continues to pretend it's a thing.
4 - PA publishes photos and articles touting the "great success of etc." featuring blatant
violations of the policy, reg, whatever.
5 - Members who complied, often at their expense, feel slighted, silly, unseen, or indignant.
4 - Then "everyone" (note quotes) wonders why there are retention, order, discipline, and most important execution issues in every CAP corner.
#corevalues
Quote from: UWONGO2 on August 27, 2022, 07:58:11 PMWhile no different than other conferences I've attended, CAP better should never suggest their core values somehow differentiates them from other organizations.
Just came back from a week-long conference of 600 people. 100% compliance on masking in areas where it was required.
All good points
Now in a few minutes somebody will refute this bit of common sense and say why don't you just get out of CAP....not an astonishing answer by the few.
But since CAP went its merry Corporate way...maybe Congress and GAO could do a little research
BTW...why and was it true that John McCain once wanted to do away w CAP?
Where are the CAP "historians" that could enlighten the unwashed masses
Quote from: heliodoc on August 28, 2022, 09:12:21 PMBTW...why and was it true that John McCain once wanted to do away w CAP?
IIRC the senator questioned the need for "the largest fleet of Cessna airplanes in the world."
This was also around the time of the Archer mess too.
Ahhhhh yes ARCHER where the emsecret squirrels test and only the few could join meanwhile everyone else in the air photo, ortho, LIDAR and real remote sensing world probably had a handle on hyperspectral imagery....
Wasn't there some $1800-3600 power cord or some such that held up a mission or two or wasn't supported by the vendor OR CAP
But im not chirping...I got my approx 6 8 hr checkout in the GA8
CAP been better off drilling a coupla camera holes in the belly with a couple of Fairchild cameras and trying to compete and maybe we could of been "pitcher takin" 20 yrs ago w FEMA!!
The A.R.C.H.E.R, ground station was too heavy to transport in the aircraft,
so it required a "chase" vehicle, and of course the sensor station in the
aircraft severely limited the useful load for everything else.
In addition, NHQ made the training requirements so ridiculous that it
created a defacto GOBC that shut out people from ever getting near it.
A.R.C.H.E.R. is, of course, the reason the organizaiton has the ever popular
GA-8s, which themselves come with their own foibles and unique requirements,
and were their own mini GOBC (and to some extent still are).
When we first got them the GA-8's didn't even have door locks. ::)
We had the CAWG one at our airport airshow shortly after it was delivered and we were required to put it in a lockable hanger overnight because you couldn't secure it.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 28, 2022, 02:47:51 PMSSDD.
1 - NHQ establishes a policy, reg, whatever (often well after the barn doors are closed and
at member expense for time or money).
2 - Members who disagree or "aren't feeling it" simply ignore it, or willfully disobey.
3 - NHQ says "oh well", but leaves the policy, reg, whatever in place and continues to pretend it's a thing.
4 - PA publishes photos and articles touting the "great success of etc." featuring blatant
violations of the policy, reg, whatever.
5 - Members who complied, often at their expense, feel slighted, silly, unseen, or indignant.
4 - Then "everyone" (note quotes) wonders why there are retention, order, discipline, and most important execution issues in every CAP corner.
#corevalues
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/about/employment/cap-chief-operating-officer/
Now is your chance, Bob. The opportunity of a lifetime to solve all of CAP's ills. Grab that brass ring.
(Now where is that tongue in cheek smiley?)
Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
Quote from: NIN on August 29, 2022, 12:40:10 AMNow is your chance, Bob. The opportunity of a lifetime to solve all of CAP's ills. Grab that brass ring.
You'd have to pay me a darn sight more than $190K to solve all of CAP's ills.
Since the GA8 was originally built in Australia and maybe weren't owned by the Chinese......
Maybe the Aussies utility use of the backcountry didn't require locks and maybe just maybe...looking at some Gov contracts.....maybe things as simple as locks may have needed to spelled out more clearly
Quote from: heliodoc on August 28, 2022, 09:12:21 PMBTW...why and was it true that John McCain once wanted to do away w CAP?
McCain was generally supportive of CAP as a concept. He just didn't agree with the federal appropriation to fund it. Kind of an odd stance, but he wasn't hostile towards the organization.
Quote from: dwb on August 29, 2022, 11:56:26 AMQuote from: heliodoc on August 28, 2022, 09:12:21 PMBTW...why and was it true that John McCain once wanted to do away w CAP?
McCain was generally supportive of CAP as a concept. He just didn't agree with the federal appropriation to fund it. Kind of an odd stance, but he wasn't hostile towards the organization.
Maybe he was using the reasoning that programs funded by the Defense Funding Authorization Act should actually be related to defense of the country?
Quote from: PHall on August 29, 2022, 02:12:17 PMMaybe he was using the reasoning that programs funded by the Defense Funding Authorization Act should actually be related to defense of the country?
We should be funded through and be a FEMA org at this point.
Quote from: etodd on August 29, 2022, 07:32:30 PMQuote from: PHall on August 29, 2022, 02:12:17 PMMaybe he was using the reasoning that programs funded by the Defense Funding Authorization Act should actually be related to defense of the country?
We should be funded through and be a FEMA org at this point.
Yet the Cadet Program is nowhere near a good fit for FEMA. Not to mention our Aerospace Education Mission.
Less then half of the CAP membership participates in ES and most of those don't participate in ES missions.
So, to summarize the points made and my own observations via social media:
- The National Conference was marketed as having a mandate to implement COVID-19 precautions, to include the wearing of face masks by all attendees.
- The mask mandate (above) was not enforced during the conference period by event leadership and staff.
- Numerous high-position individuals, to include commanders from various echelons as well as key National staff personnel were not wearing masks; thus, the example set was that attendees could disregard protocols if they chose to do so.
- Masks were also not worn by the National Vice Commander—who oversaw CAP's COVID-19 response under the current administration—nor by numerous personnel associated with the Health Services Corps and the Chaplain Corps (as clearly indicated by photos) during publicized meetings and symposiums.
If leaders don't like the mask mandates, then don't make them. Otherwise, enforce the standards that apply to us of all equally, fairly, and consistently.
Quote from: PHall on August 29, 2022, 08:17:09 PMQuote from: etodd on August 29, 2022, 07:32:30 PMQuote from: PHall on August 29, 2022, 02:12:17 PMMaybe he was using the reasoning that programs funded by the Defense Funding Authorization Act should actually be related to defense of the country?
We should be funded through and be a FEMA org at this point.
Yet the Cadet Program is nowhere near a good fit for FEMA. Not to mention our Aerospace Education Mission.
Less then half of the CAP membership participates in ES and most of those don't participate in ES missions.
True! So send the ES Seniors to the new FEMA branch and leave the cadets as a CAP version of ROTC.
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on August 29, 2022, 09:13:17 PMSo, to summarize the points made and my own observations via social media:
- The National Conference was marketed as having a mandate to implement COVID-19 precautions, to include the wearing of face masks by all attendees.
- The mask mandate (above) was not enforced during the conference period by event leadership and staff.
- Numerous high-position individuals, to include commanders from various echelons as well as key National staff personnel were not wearing masks; thus, the example set was that attendees could disregard protocols if they chose to do so.
- Masks were also not worn by the National Vice Commander—who oversaw CAP's COVID-19 response under the current administration—nor by numerous personnel associated with the Health Services Corps and the Chaplain Corps (as clearly indicated by photos) during publicized meetings and symposiums.
If leaders don't like the mask mandates, then don't make them. Otherwise, enforce the standards that apply to us of all equally, fairly, and consistently.
Except I saw both the general officers and other senior leaders
did wear masks at times, and did not at other times such as meals, receptions, photo ops, and during times when speaking to a large group.
But I can only agree that the hallways were not being patrolled by the Mask Police. Which is probably a Good Thing.
No big mask-free parties in the DV suites. (Our National Commander is not much of a drinker or partier, and appears to set a good example in that regard.)
It was a highly successful conference by any measure - highest paid attendance in years, fascinating labs, and no rubber chicken banquet. Innovations included running keynotes during breakfast and dinner times with provided meals and ample seating to allow for distancing. And I give them points for the non-banquet banquet, which also allowed members to do something different and spread out.
Ned Lee
National Conference Enthusiast
Quote from: Ned on August 30, 2022, 01:03:49 AMBut I can only agree that the hallways were not being patrolled by the Mask Police. Which is probably a Good Thing.
Either we try to be a paramilitary organization governed by rules and regulations that all members follow and face consequences if they don't or we are not. Unfortunately CAP has reached the point where we have so many regs that it is certainly possible for folks to inadvertently break them now and again and extreme measures are rarely necessary.
But, when non-compliance is even more obvious and blatant than folks wearing AF-style uniforms that don't meet weight standards, then compliance should not be that hard. When they decided masks were mandatory, they should have had an enforcement plan in place and maybe "mask police" might not have been a bad idea. We all know that the average CAP member is unlikely to confront another CAP member that they don't know and have no authority over about such things. The leaders should have known and planned for this and either not required masks or should not have held the event in a situation when they truly believed masks were needed.
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on August 29, 2022, 01:34:23 AMYou'd have to pay me a darn sight more than $190K to solve all of CAP's ills.
Plus you'd have to move to the exotic locale of Montgomery, Alabama...
This thread has run its course.