What areas are you curious to see addressed in the AAR if done?
When do you think it should be done?
What "uncomfortable conversations" should be discussed?
Ok, call me dumb, AAR process?
Nevermind, After Action Review.
I am dumb, but it is Friday afternoon. My brain hurts.
;D
Quote from: Toad1168 on June 03, 2022, 09:11:27 PM...After Action Review.
Sounds like something that would take two years at best, and by that time we'll be in the midst of Monkeypox (with different guidelines) and Covid will be like the flu. And some new horror will just be coming out.
Well you can't have an AAR until the event is over. Has the WHO declared the Pandemic over yet?
Not that I'd expect anyone to do an AAR in CAP, but there isn't anything that says for long-running events that you couldn't do an interim AAR covering certain operational periods. In an event this long probably a lot of the early lessons have probably already been forgotten.
Oh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?
Quote from: PHall on June 04, 2022, 03:58:56 PMWell you can't have an AAR until the event is over. Has the WHO declared the Pandemic over yet?
Then periodic SITREP Reviews and operational brief/debriefs would be appropriate.
Quote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?
Nothing to do with CAP.
In case people missed it, CAPR60-1 received an update on June 1st repealing all the COVID related waivers for PT, encampment, etc. I'd say this means its probably time to start the AAR.
Monkeypox or whatever comes next ... will have its own new and different gov't guidelines and procedures. CAP Hdqs will need to make decisions at that time based on what is doled out by Uncle Sam. It'll always be different. So, I'm just wondering what would be gained by an AAR of this one? Very little may be applied to the next situation. IDK, just pondering.
(I mean other than a few folks being put in charge of an AAR, and writing a report that gets them lauded at the next National Meeting.)
Theres never a bad time to examine your actions and try to figure out what you could have done better. Sure, the next disease may have different control measures, but taking the time to think through how to think about such actions in a CAP context could still help. But, we don't do AARs for massive SAR or DR missions, so no reason to think it will be done for this.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 06, 2022, 12:55:15 PMQuote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?
Nothing to do with CAP.
I disagree. CAP shutdown the cadet program with no science behind that decision. The losses were real, and we may never fully recover.
I agree with Eclipse...nothing to do with CAP
But then CAP has very little to do with the most vulnerable....can tell by the training events in those very classes....I still hear CAP members...I don't wan to take my vaca over FEMA and EMA sponsored courses
Just like first response has nothing to do with CAP
ICS in its FULL realm, CAP really hasn't adopted very well and if one looks at "CAPR" 60-3 and how outdated it is
Yeah, its no wonder not many EMAs have anything to do with CAP
A hodge podge of activities flagged as a National resource needs alot of hep here in the hinterlands of the Midwest
I think it's entirely fair to conduct a review of the impacts of the decisions, both the pros and cons of them.
We should definitely have archived reviews so that we can better plan for future events of a similar nature, so we're not making decisions with no historical experience. The impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, and the fact that we're still subjected to future pandemics, should definitely be something that is assessed using "look back" data and outcomes.
Quote from: JohhnyD on June 08, 2022, 02:37:03 AMQuote from: Eclipse on June 06, 2022, 12:55:15 PMQuote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?
Nothing to do with CAP.
I disagree. CAP shutdown the cadet program with no science behind that decision. The losses were real, and we may never fully recover.
CAP, in response to available guidance and varying government mandates, shut down in person operations. While yes, there were some membership losses, the decision to do so was driven primarily by external forces. So as Eclipse said, it really had nothing to do with CAP.
As for your assertion that the losses were real and that we may never recover; I would say that the losses were mostly those members who weren't really active to begin with and were essentially empty shirts. And while nationally we have not yet recovered to pre-pandemic membership levels (we're about 10,000 total members below where we were in Feb 2020), at least locally we have more total members and more active members than we've had in 20 years. YMMV.
Quote from: jeders on June 08, 2022, 03:55:04 PMCAP, in response to available guidance and varying government mandates, shut down in person operations. While yes, there were some membership losses, the decision to do so was driven primarily by external forces. So as Eclipse said, it really had nothing to do with CAP.
They're still decisions that impact CAP. Even if it's by mandate, it should go into the discussion notes as to
why the decision was made.
And not every CAP closure was due to mandates. Some wings went back into a lesser phase without any NHQ requirement to do so.
QuoteAs for your assertion that the losses were real and that we may never recover; I would say that the losses were mostly those members who weren't really active to begin with and were essentially empty shirts. And while nationally we have not yet recovered to pre-pandemic membership levels (we're about 10,000 total members below where we were in Feb 2020), at least locally we have more total members and more active members than we've had in 20 years. YMMV.
This, I don't agree with. I think this is something that is a major assumption about what goes on in other units. A lot of members were very active pre-COVID.
But let's be mindful that many of our members, particularly cadets, "grew up" during the last two years. 12-year-olds became 14-year-olds. High school juniors became college freshmen. Some of the changed during that time.
We also had to adapt to a new environment for learning not seen much in school grades for most of our members, especially those who went/go to school in a public (in-person) setting. CAP changed. They didn't care what what they were left with.
Unfortunately, many members didn't stick around to see what "CAP is like" after remobilizing. They remembered what "CAP
was like." Likewise, we have a number of members today that have no idea what "CAP was like" pre-COVID because they joined under an entirely different program than what it used to be.
Some units bounced back to where they were pre-COVID. Others grew, many for the better. A number of units do far better today than they did pre-COVID. Others are still trying to figure things out, particularly with a lesser experienced staff.
Quote from: jeders on June 08, 2022, 03:55:04 PMQuote from: JohhnyD on June 08, 2022, 02:37:03 AMQuote from: Eclipse on June 06, 2022, 12:55:15 PMQuote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?
Nothing to do with CAP.
I disagree. CAP shutdown the cadet program with no science behind that decision. The losses were real, and we may never fully recover.
CAP, in response to available guidance and varying government mandates, shut down in person operations. While yes, there were some membership losses, the decision to do so was driven primarily by external forces. So as Eclipse said, it really had nothing to do with CAP.
As for your assertion that the losses were real and that we may never recover; I would say that the losses were mostly those members who weren't really active to begin with and were essentially empty shirts. And while nationally we have not yet recovered to pre-pandemic membership levels (we're about 10,000 total members below where we were in Feb 2020), at least locally we have more total members and more active members than we've had in 20 years. YMMV.
Nope. My experience is that many cadet families grew disillusioned and are never coming back. This is our future and we squandered it.
NHQ chose expedience over leadership. As they have on a number of woke subjects, and we may never recover. I would not ever allow my children to go to another overnight activity, for example, where mixed sex dorms are allowed because of wokeness. I suspect my time in the organization grows short, after 5 decades. The banning of people for dissent here is simply a reflection of the wokeness throughout. Facts no longer matter, only being politically correct does.
We had a great 8 decade run. Sad that it ends this way.
Quote from: JohhnyD on June 09, 2022, 03:08:36 AMMy experience is that many cadet families grew disillusioned and are never coming back.
I think we've all seen a lot of that, and not just over the last two years but over the last 80 years. This is nothing new or unique to Covid. The job now is to build up your local program and recruit new people.
Quote from: jeders on June 09, 2022, 01:45:33 PMQuote from: JohhnyD on June 09, 2022, 03:08:36 AMMy experience is that many cadet families grew disillusioned and are never coming back.
I think we've all seen a lot of that, and not just over the last two years but over the last 80 years. This is nothing new or unique to Covid. The job now is to build up your local program and recruit new people.
I think there is a level of caution to be maintained here, though. We cannot be a reactive organization in respect to the thought that we can "just recruit new members later." You have to really watch the branding on that type of program; outside opinion is a thing. Your public cannot look at your program and say "Why does this organization
whatever?" and you expect recruits off of that.
We really want a solid, stable, productive program to offer. Being reactive and "late to the game" in assessing a plan of actions (or options) is not preferred.
Quote from: JohhnyD on June 09, 2022, 03:08:36 AMMy experience is that many cadet families grew disillusioned and are never coming back.
And not just with the COVID issues. Our missions are changing. We market ourselves as an exciting org with photos/videos of us searching in the forest or in airplanes and saving lives, yet technology (cell phone team) has taken over 95% of that mission. So we recruit people, provide too few ops to actually train, and then when they do train, its for missions that rarely, if ever, come. So yes, many get disillusioned. We are way overdue for redefining our missions. If our future is handing out water bottles as DR, then lets market ourselves that way and get the volunteers that are interested in helping that way.
Quote from: JohhnyD on June 09, 2022, 03:08:36 AMQuote from: jeders on June 08, 2022, 03:55:04 PMQuote from: JohhnyD on June 08, 2022, 02:37:03 AMQuote from: Eclipse on June 06, 2022, 12:55:15 PMQuote from: OldGuy on June 06, 2022, 04:37:14 AMOh, maybe how effective was the near total shutdown versus perhaps isolating the most vulnerable?
Nothing to do with CAP.
I disagree. CAP shutdown the cadet program with no science behind that decision. The losses were real, and we may never fully recover.
CAP, in response to available guidance and varying government mandates, shut down in person operations. While yes, there were some membership losses, the decision to do so was driven primarily by external forces. So as Eclipse said, it really had nothing to do with CAP.
As for your assertion that the losses were real and that we may never recover; I would say that the losses were mostly those members who weren't really active to begin with and were essentially empty shirts. And while nationally we have not yet recovered to pre-pandemic membership levels (we're about 10,000 total members below where we were in Feb 2020), at least locally we have more total members and more active members than we've had in 20 years. YMMV.
Nope. My experience is that many cadet families grew disillusioned and are never coming back. This is our future and we squandered it.
NHQ chose expedience over leadership. As they have on a number of woke subjects, and we may never recover. I would not ever allow my children to go to another overnight activity, for example, where mixed sex dorms are allowed because of wokeness. I suspect my time in the organization grows short, after 5 decades. The banning of people for dissent here is simply a reflection of the wokeness throughout. Facts no longer matter, only being politically correct does.
We had a great 8 decade run. Sad that it ends this way.
How do you have children in the organization after being in for 50 years?
Quote from: JayT on June 09, 2022, 02:38:25 PMHow do you have children in the organization after being in for 50 years?
Do you uh, need a birds and bees conversation? Or a discussion on of multi-generational families in CAP?
Quote from: etodd on June 09, 2022, 02:24:15 PMQuote from: JohhnyD on June 09, 2022, 03:08:36 AMMy experience is that many cadet families grew disillusioned and are never coming back.
And not just with the COVID issues. Our missions are changing. We market ourselves as an exciting org with photos/videos of us searching in the forest or in airplanes and saving lives, yet technology (cell phone team) has taken over 95% of that mission. So we recruit people, provide too few ops to actually train, and then when they do train, its for missions that rarely, if ever, come. So yes, many get disillusioned. We are way overdue for redefining our missions. If our future is handing out water bottles as DR, then lets market ourselves that way and get the volunteers that are interested in helping that way.
So many missed opportunities. We should be far more active in the ham radio world, in the local sUAS world, the EAA, etc. We are a tiny splinter group with some really cool USAF bought planes, comms and vehicles and no support staff and dysfunctional leadership. And the China Virus exposed these flaws in a very real way.
Quote from: Holding Pattern on June 09, 2022, 10:52:38 PMQuote from: JayT on June 09, 2022, 02:38:25 PMHow do you have children in the organization after being in for 50 years?
Do you uh, need a birds and bees conversation? Or a discussion on of multi-generational families in CAP?
Someone being in their 60s or 70s and having teenage children, while possible, is not at all common. If instead someone in their 60s and 70s is exerting control over their grown children or teenage grandchildren, that is disturbing as well.
Quote from: jeders on June 10, 2022, 01:46:08 PMQuote from: Holding Pattern on June 09, 2022, 10:52:38 PMQuote from: JayT on June 09, 2022, 02:38:25 PMHow do you have children in the organization after being in for 50 years?
Do you uh, need a birds and bees conversation? Or a discussion on of multi-generational families in CAP?
Someone being in their 60s or 70s and having teenage children, while possible, is not at all common. If instead someone in their 60s and 70s is exerting control over their grown children or teenage grandchildren, that is disturbing as well.
What an odd comment.
Quote from: jeders on June 10, 2022, 01:46:08 PMQuote from: Holding Pattern on June 09, 2022, 10:52:38 PMQuote from: JayT on June 09, 2022, 02:38:25 PMHow do you have children in the organization after being in for 50 years?
Do you uh, need a birds and bees conversation? Or a discussion on of multi-generational families in CAP?
Someone being in their 60s or 70s and having teenage children, while possible, is not at all common. If instead someone in their 60s and 70s is exerting control over their grown children or teenage grandchildren, that is disturbing as well.
Respectfully, I'm fifty two and daughter is seven. My eighty two year old Mother is very involved in my daughters life. In five years my daughter could join CAP; both I and my mother would encourage it.
Question, how many children do you have and how many are involved in CAP?
Quote from: Shuman 14 on June 27, 2022, 08:57:21 PMQuote from: jeders on June 10, 2022, 01:46:08 PMQuote from: Holding Pattern on June 09, 2022, 10:52:38 PMQuote from: JayT on June 09, 2022, 02:38:25 PMHow do you have children in the organization after being in for 50 years?
Do you uh, need a birds and bees conversation? Or a discussion on of multi-generational families in CAP?
Someone being in their 60s or 70s and having teenage children, while possible, is not at all common. If instead someone in their 60s and 70s is exerting control over their grown children or teenage grandchildren, that is disturbing as well.
Respectfully, I'm fifty two and daughter is seven. My eighty two year old Mother is very involved in my daughters life. In five years my daughter could join CAP; both I and my mother would encourage it.
Question, how many children do you have and how many are involved in CAP?
If you are told your daughter will be in an effectively coed encampment room how will you feel about that?
Quote from: JohhnyD on June 28, 2022, 03:36:27 AMIf you are told your daughter will be in an effectively coed encampment room how will you feel about that?
CAP policy does not currently allow that... I'll address that question when it does.
How did we go from the COVID-19 AAR to a conversation on gender?
This thread is like a typical staff meeting where someone starts to brief or pose a question about aircraft availability, and 5 minutes later, we're discussing the importance of ground teams in the future of CAP's mission scope and how we need to switch to an all-blue uniform. More so, it's like a typical CAPTalk thread.
That'll do it.
~ 9907