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Former Members?

Started by DBlair, March 18, 2011, 06:39:17 AM

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Westernslope

ONE week after I joined CAP, I was made the Squadron DCC. When I expressed concern, I was told that is where the need was and, after all, I had been a cadet 30 years earlier. Shortly after that the Squadron commander was relieved due to unethical behavior. It seemed that for years the commander's behavior had been tolerated and overlooked because there was nobody else available for the position. I thought at the time that surely this was not the norm in CAP. Sadly, I learned that while it was not the norm, it was not uncommon.

I loved my time in CAP and served on staff at wing encampments, Region Staff Colleges, RCLS (in 2 Regions) several National Cadet Special Activities, and COS, as well as making several presentations from Wing to National Conferences. While in CAP, I met many wonderful and dedicated members.

In my 10 years in CAP, I went from 2nd Lt to Lt Col and even received my GRW Award. I was on Squadron, Wing, Region and National staffs.  The lack of integrity and respect at each level amazed me. Seems folks often just tolerated, overlooked or justified the behavior. I did for a long time because I loved what I was doing in CAP.

I finally decided that I no longer wanted to be in an organization that talked a lot about core vales but those values were often lacking in the leadership. It surprised many when I left because I didn't go away angry or due to a scandal of some sorts, I was just disappointed.

...the stories that could be told (good and bad)  but I think I am not the only one who could tell them.

fyrfitrmedic

 A number of years ago, I "took a year off" from the organization. I returned in order to keep a promise.

I've stayed in order to keep that promise and to pay a few things forward.

There are a number of things that have disappointed me within the organization, but I have a promise to keep.
MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn

TDHenderson

Quote from: Fubar on March 21, 2011, 10:04:25 PM
I'm not a "grass is always greener on the other side" kinda guy, but I've noticed this mantra from Coast Guard auxiliarists and I can't help but wonder if it's true.

I can't speak for all of the Auxiliary but our Flotilla (equivalent of the CAP Squadron) is very Operationally oriented.  Not all Flotillas are this way, unfortunately some are "Yacht Clubs", the equivalent of the CAP "Flying Club" Squadrons.  They do the minimum to keep their yearly qualifications satisfied.

But, there are more and more Auxiliarists waking up to our current and growing future role as a force-multiplier to the Active Duty CG and Reserves.  Over the last few years several of our Flotilla members have been activated for duty in supporting the CG response (ICS Staffing and Communications) to the Red River Flooding in ND and MN and we had one member deploy to the Deepwater Horizon response working Communications.  Currently we have several members who are qualified as Crew Members on the first Airboat facilitized (the process where a members boat, radio, or aircraft is accepted for official use by the Auxiliary) for use in the Auxiliary (they are on standby to deploy for the flood areas this year), and three members qualified to serve alongside the Active Duty CG on an RB-S (Response Boat Small, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCG_Defender_class_boat).

Nationwide there are Auxiliarists working at many Coast Guard stations in various Logistical, Communications, and Administrative roles.  Some get deployed on Cutters as Chefs (a relatively new program for Auxiliarists is the AuxChef program, training us to serve as Chefs for the AD, not glamorous but needed and appreciated), and some overseas as Language Translators.  We are allowed to do anything the AD CG needs BUT law enforcement and direct military action.

All-in-all, it is what you and your local unit make of it.

Trevor

a2capt

Quote from: TDHenderson on March 22, 2011, 02:07:30 PMAll-in-all, it is what you and your local unit make of it.
..and the same goes for 'us', too. I could let all my dis-satisfaction with Wing leadership get to me, or I can mostly ignore it and concentrate on our corner of the program and contribute to our unit so that we can get yet another award from NHQ, do our best to advance one more level at the region Cadet Competition and over all help these cadets get all they can get out of our, about to turn 70, program so some of them will help make it last another 70.

sarmed1

I think we do it to ourselves.  The more we become involved with the program (ie move beyond the squadron level) the more we see the parts of the program (the back stabbing or the politicing, double talk, etc etc or whatever your problem may be) that no one wants to see/admit is there.  The people that have good strong local level programs that dont have to involve themselves with the "rest" of CAP are usually pretty happy and satisfied with the program; it seems once we travel out of this happy little corner of the world the frustration seems to mount.


mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

BillB

SARMED is right in that th higher you go from the Squadron level, the more politics and back stabbing occurs. But it wasn't always like that. I served on both Wing and Region staff during a period where politics would be somewhere in the 10% range of politics today. The difference....USAF ran CAP. The National Commander was a General grade Air Force Officer, and USAF had staffs in every Wing. The dual chain of command, USAF and Corporate worked together. And the Air Force staff, (Wing USAF-CAP Liaision Officers), provided the Wing Corporate side a brake on politics. Basically if the National Commander objected to an action by the National Board of NEC, it didn't happen. Starting in the 1970's this started to change. The National Commander became Commander CAP-USAF and the position was lowered to be filled by Colonels. Then the Air Force staffs at Wing was dropped replaced by the civilian Wing Directors, and Wing Administrators.
My Region Commander who retired from being Vice Commander CAP-USAF made sure that Region Commanders calls were held in conjunction with the NEC meetings, both held at Maxwell. Thus Region Staff sat in on the NEC meetings and could make comments on pending actions thru the Region CC. This allowed comments and suggestions from the field to be heard at the NEC level. During this period in CAP history, there was cooperation between the Corporate side, the Air Force side and very little politics involved. But those days are gone forever. Region Commanders were more or less bound to follow the recommendation of the Wing Commander Selection Boards which did not involve politics. This is unlike the situation in one Wing where the incoming Wing CC is leaked before the Selection Board even meets.
In todays CAP, only the BoG has the power to change the governence of CAP. With the external consultents study underway perhaps the BoG with come up with a governence plan that eliminates some of the politics that is rampent in the organization.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

PA Guy

My membership goes back to the early 60s with service on Wing and Region staffs.  My recollections are somewhat different.

The CAP Natl. Commander was in fact an AF officer who was usually on their sunset tour or brought out of retirement for the assignment.  The same held true for the Wing L/Os.  Most of them just wanted to finish their tour and retire. 

The Natl Hq was staffed by AF and GS employees.  They did things in their own sweet time and were less than responsive to contact with CAP members.  Have current members who say things would be better if the AF still ran NHQ considered that the NHQ  is now staffed by enough retired O5s-O6s they could have their own chapter of ROA.  NHQ is much more responsive now than when the AF ran it.

CAP politics has always been just as bad as it is now.  The only difference is that today it is waaay more accessible to the membership.  If there was no internet would the membership be as aware?  No CAP Talk, no web page, no streaming internet of meetings.  In the "good ole days" it was all done by phone and snail mail.  So it was there just like today, just not as accessable.  Remember when the only contact the membership had with NHQ was the little 1-2 page monthly newsletter?

The CyBorg is destroyed

I've been in and out of CAP a couple of times...for reasons varying from sick-of-the-politics to geographic moves.

I've also been a CG Auxiliarist.  When they are at their best is when they are being an integral component of the Coast Guard.  When you are someone who doesn't own a boat, never has, probably never will (yours truly) and you are in a flotilla with a bunch of boat owners who do little other than talk about their boats...kind of a stinko situation.

I think people leave for reasons as varied as the membership themselves.

The politics...the "flying club" mentality of some units where you don't matter unless you're a pilot...the incorrect expectations on joining (I was told that the only reason senior members were there were to be "counsellors" to the cadets)...it runs the gamut.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

PaulR

To answer the the question... I am a former member.  I served as a cadet from 1985 until August of 1990, when I joined the Marines.  I loved my time with the CAP.  I literally lived for each meeting and event.   I joined again, as a senior member, in 1998.  I was only a participant for like a month, then let my membership lapse, due to some things I saw at the unit.  I wanted to join another unit again here, in CA, last year.  I showed up for a meeting and saw some more things I did not like and decided not to pursue a membership. 

Since then, I have joined up with a local Sea Cadet unit and love it. 

The reason I am a member of this site is that my interest in the CAP program is still present.  I have many good memories as a cadet and do not want to sever my ties with this organization.

I am not a member of the CG AUX, but I can tell you that the CG places much more trust and value in their Aux program than the Air Force. I cannot go to a base(even a small one) and not see CG AUX personnel actively engaged in CG operations, working along side with the AD counterparts.  I feel that they are an outstanding force multiplier and am glad to have them around.  I wish the AF felt the same about their Aux members.

The CyBorg is destroyed

Most of us wish that, Paul...that we could augment the Air Force in ways that the CGAUX does with the CG.

I was in the CGAUX so I got to see it firsthand.

Even as a one-stripe Flotilla Staff Officer at a Change of Watch, I was having AD/Reserve CG NCO's, WO's and Commissioned Officers coming up to talk with me.  That was cool.

I considered the NSCC at one time during one of my "breaks in service" in CAP.  My first squadron met at an Armed Forces Reserve facility that had an NSCC unit.  They sometimes were better with customs/courtesies and military bearing than our cadets.

Maybe after I "retire" from CAP I'll give them another look. :)
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

MIKE

Quote from: PaulR on March 26, 2011, 05:56:37 AMI am not a member of the CG AUX, but I can tell you that the CG places much more trust and value in their Aux program than the Air Force. I cannot go to a base(even a small one) and not see CG AUX personnel actively engaged in CG operations, working along side with the AD counterparts.  I feel that they are an outstanding force multiplier and am glad to have them around.  I wish the AF felt the same about their Aux members.

Got any augmentee slots open on BERTHOLF?  What I wouldn't do for a chance to get some sea time on a shiny new NSC... Hell, I'll chip paint and clean heads... and do the Aux Cutterman PQS when I'm off watch.
Mike Johnston

PaulR

Quote from: MIKE on March 26, 2011, 02:26:45 PM
Got any augmentee slots open on BERTHOLF?  What I wouldn't do for a chance to get some sea time on a shiny new NSC... Hell, I'll chip paint and clean heads... and do the Aux Cutterman PQS when I'm off watch.

Actually, this may be a reality in the future.  It is being discussed.  I doubt that you would be cleaning heads though.  LOL

What are the requirements for a Aux Cutterman Badge?  I did not even know that it existed.  I just got my permanent one last week.

MIKE

Quote from: PaulR on March 26, 2011, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: MIKE on March 26, 2011, 02:26:45 PM
Got any augmentee slots open on BERTHOLF?  What I wouldn't do for a chance to get some sea time on a shiny new NSC... Hell, I'll chip paint and clean heads... and do the Aux Cutterman PQS when I'm off watch.

Actually, this may be a reality in the future.  It is being discussed.  I doubt that you would be cleaning heads though.  LOL

What are the requirements for a Aux Cutterman Badge?  I did not even know that it existed.  I just got my permanent one last week.

http://www.uscg.mil/directives/ci/1000-1999/CI_1650_9.pdf
Mike Johnston

sarmed1

Just like in the military world I encourage members who are disgruntled/burned out or whatever you want to call it to go to the IRR....or in CAP's case Patron status.  It puts you into the holding patern, freezes you base accomplishments (obviuosly as in both cases re-cuurent taks training and qulification's expire) but it leaves you as a part of (though in most cases a distant part)  the family.  The benefit is that if your life situation changes its much easier to get back into the fold.  From the CAP side things like: kids (could be yours or a family member's) getting into the program or a change of location that seems to have a better program for you to go to or just nostalgia etc etc.  I have even seen people come back into the program just to work certain NCSA's (yeah I know a little shallow in some respects, but could be an outstanding resource to some very specific nitch)....and some other invite only type of operations/activites/missions.

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

The CyBorg is destroyed

^^Which is what I should have done.

I would probably be a LtCol by now.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

ricecakecm

I put in 15 years, both as a cadet and senior, before letting my membership expire.  For me, it was a case of I had done everything I wanted to do in CAP, gone as high/far as I was going to go in the organization, and just plain was ready to be done.  I've got two small kids and a job that keeps me away from home a lot.  I needed to spend more time with my family when I wasn't working, so CAP was the thing that got the axe.  I started as a cadet in the early 90's and left as a Wing Director of Operations in 2008.  I got my Mitchell, worked with Cadet Programs for a while, was a Wing Safety Officer, had every pilot qualification you could have in CAP, several ES qualifications including IC, and had done almost every flight ops related job you could except for maintenance (and even then, I did a lot of maintenance work as the DO).

I was able to leave CAP at a point where I wasn't upset, disgruntled, or mad with CAP.  I just reached a point where I had a replacement trained, was stepping down from the job anyways, and bowing out 100% made the most sense personally.  There were several attempts made to get me to stay and do various things.  But I just plain don't have the time to do a lot of things in CAP to the level I'd want to do them to.  I don't need to fly CAP's planes, since I fly about 400-500 hours a year at work.  I still keep in touch with many friends from CAP and keep semi-informed via the internet, and there are times I think about rejoining.  But every hour I spend doing something for CAP is an hour less I get to spend with my kids, who already don't see me half the time anyways because I'm out on the road.

Sure, the politics and BS could be frustrating, but I had my methods for dealing with it.  I had a great boss in CAP who pretty much let me do my thing and stayed out of my way.  I had good working relationships with my customers, vendors, and NHQ.  Most of my headaches came from pilots doing stupid crap in airplanes or unit commanders moaning about not having an airplane assigned to them.  I did my job with some advice given to me by the State Director when I first took the DO job "If someone's not pissed off at you at any given moment, you're probably not doing your job right."  So all in all, my last three years in CAP, as the Wing DO, were probably my most enjoyable. 

So when I left, I got to go out on top.  And I'm happy with that decision to this day.

AlphaSigOU

I first joined CAP as a cadet in December 1977, and had there not been a 17-year break in membership between 1988 and 2005 I would have had well over 30 years service as both a cadet and senior member. The squadron I was in as a senior member from 1986 through 1988 was operating very much as a GOBFC; not having the CAP 'universal management badge' - ahem - pilot wings pretty much put me on the outside looking in within the squadron. Eventually, other interests (mainly competition model rocketry) took over and I let my membership lapse.

My current job out here in Kwajalein has pretty much put the brakes on my active participation in CAP, and current regulations effectively prohibit the formation of an overseas cadet squadron on the rock. I still pay my dues, even though I'm pretty much relegated to the role of a patron member, but I've put in too much time in advancing through the ranks to just simply go into the 'suspended animation' of patron status. (I'm applying to attend NSC this October, and barring any other requirements I hope to complete Level V and earn the Gill Robb Wilson award.)

I've got a little over three more years before I reach the terminal grade of Lt Col (July 2014 at the earliest - I'll never see 'chicken colonel' in my lifetime). I'm getting close to the end of my initial two-year employment contract here on Kwajalein and barring any major problems employment-wise I will probably be offered a contract extension, which I will take. When I get tired of island life and return to the Land of the Big BX I will more than likely become active again.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

SJFedor

Well, since this finally applies to me, and I've stayed away from CAPTalk for some time, I guess I'll say hello and expand.

Many things contributed to me allowing my membership to expire and just simply not re-enter the credit card info for another year. The impending birth of my son, getting ready to move (again), preparing and entering paramedic school, and a few others all contributed it.

But in all honesty, the biggest thing that pushed me away was the constant lack of professionalism and teamwork from a large percentage of our membership. I recall multiple instances where I was instructed to do something, and told to do it in such a way that made the overall accomplishment of the goal darn near impossible.

More than anything else, as someone who works professionally in the emergency services field (EMS), with volunteers from fire departments, rescue squads, and everything else, I saw so much more professionalism from those organizations than I did in my own.  Many of these local crews have a lot less toys and a WHOLE lot less manpower and funding, and I just couldn't understand why these little county rescue squads could get their ducks in a row, why we as CAP, a very large, very well supported, very well equipped organization continues to have so many....well...ridiculous and asinine issues.

Will I return someday? I really do hope so. Maybe once school is done, my son is a little older and can enjoy some of the things CAP gave me as a cadet, and we're onto another set of uniform manuals to argue about, I'll find my way back. But for now, it's probably best to just watch from the sidelines.

Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)

Eclipse

Quote from: SJFedor on August 17, 2011, 02:20:33 PMMore than anything else, as someone who works professionally in the emergency services field (EMS), with volunteers from fire departments, rescue squads, and everything else, I saw so much more professionalism from those organizations than I did in my own.  Many of these local crews have a lot less toys and a WHOLE lot less manpower and funding, and I just couldn't understand why these little county rescue squads could get their ducks in a row, why we as CAP, a very large, very well supported, very well equipped organization continues to have so many....well...ridiculous and asinine issues.

Standards, expectations, and ramifications (or lack thereof in equal quantities).

That should be CAP's new motto SERiE

Standards
Expectations
Ramifications
in
Equal Quantities

Until we have that, we will continue on our current path, leaving a lot of good people behind.

"SERiE®" is a registered trademark of eClipseco Mining and Heavy Machinery Consortium.  All Rights Reserved.
Let eClipseco service all of your rhetoric and propaganda needs!

"That Others May Zoom"

SJFedor

Quote from: Eclipse on August 17, 2011, 02:38:11 PM
Quote from: SJFedor on August 17, 2011, 02:20:33 PMMore than anything else, as someone who works professionally in the emergency services field (EMS), with volunteers from fire departments, rescue squads, and everything else, I saw so much more professionalism from those organizations than I did in my own.  Many of these local crews have a lot less toys and a WHOLE lot less manpower and funding, and I just couldn't understand why these little county rescue squads could get their ducks in a row, why we as CAP, a very large, very well supported, very well equipped organization continues to have so many....well...ridiculous and asinine issues.

Standards, expectations, and ramifications (or lack thereof in equal quantities).

That should be CAP's new motto SERiE

Standards
Expectations
Ramifications
in
Equal Quantities

Until we have that, we will continue on our current path, leaving a lot of good people behind.

"SERiE®" is a registered trademark of eClipseco Mining and Heavy Machinery Consortium.  All Rights Reserved.
Let eClipseco service all of your rhetoric and propaganda needs!


Agreed.

Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)