from cadet to Senior Officer(member)

[arajca]

The easiest way to avoid confusion as to whether or not to wear an award is: Do you have documentation to justify it?

As a former cadet, I wear the Earhart, since I have a copy of the CAPNews listing from National. I do not wear three clasps on my encampment ribbon, DR w/o V, or CAC, since I cannot document them.

[jpnelson82]

I joined CAP as a cadet in 1995 and earned an Earhart and voluntarily left in 2001. My Earhart is on the record books with national. I rejoined in March of this year, after the post office lost the CAPF-12 several times. Am I eligible for advanced initial grade to 1Lt.? I think so, but...... what are your opinions?

[ßτε]

I joined CAP as a cadet in 1995 and earned an Earhart and voluntarily left in 2001. My Earhart is on the record books with national. I rejoined in March of this year, after the post office lost the CAPF-12 several times. Am I eligible for advanced initial grade to 1Lt.? I think so, but...... what are your opinions?

Yes, after you complete all aspects of Level I, you would be eligible for advanced promotion to 1st Lt. It is not automatic and you unit commander must approve.

[mile_high1218]

I think it's absolutely bogus for former cadets who come back into the program to have to go all the way through Level I training.  It's an absolute waste of time.  Level I is for those senior members who have no familiarity with the program at all.  I was highly agitated with the fact that I had to go through L-1 when I spent four years working towards my Mitchell in high school. 
The rule needs to be simply this:

If you have the documentation to prove that you received your Mitchell Award, or higher, then you as a senior member, with the permission of the Unit Commander and completion of CPPT, are automatically promoted to whichever rank is appropriate to meet the cadet equivalent.

The two year window rule needs to scrapped.  The basic framework that they drill in your head while your a cadet never leaves you.  It becomes a part of you.  You can put all the fancy bells and whistles on it that you want, the fundamentals are still the same.  Why put a bunch of red tape around it and discourage former cadets, specifically cadet officers, from rejoining when you force them, after they've missed the window due to circumstances beyond their control, to go though a program meant for individuals foreign to the concept and sub-culture that is CAP?

[mile_high1218]

Oh, and I may not be a 2nd Lt. according to Nationals but I earned my Mitchell; therefore, I'm going to wear the rank I worked very hard to earn according to the advanced promotion guidelines.  Screw the red tape.

[MIKE]

Nice example to set there SM Minton.

[Short Field]

So you don't intend to do Level I?   

[SarDragon]

OK, let's go over it once more - Level I = three things:

1. Orientation/Foundations

2. CPPT

3. OPSEC

The Mitchell only relieves you from item 1. Former cadets are still required to do #2 and #3. Number 2 should have already been done if over 18 when leaving the cadet program.

By wearing rank w/o accompanying documentation, you are violating the integrity you signed on for on your CAPF 12.

I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of Civil Air Patrol and agree to be guided by the CAP constitution and Bylaws and comply with CAP rules and regulations as from time to time may be amended or promulgated.

I agree to abide by the decisions of those in authority of Civil Air Patrol.

Better take another look at the core values, don'tcha think?

[mile_high1218]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I've done the Level I training.  I never said I wasn't going to go through with it.  If it's what is required of me then I'll satisfy the necessary requirements.  For all intents and purposes I've fulfilled the requirements set out by the guidelines.  I was just venting my frustrations. 

Apparently I offended somebody because they had to emphasize that I'm 'SM' Bryant Minton.  Sorry but my feelings haven't changed. 

BTW, don't talk to me about setting the example.  I've been through enough the past couple of years, and succeeded in keeping my family together, that you saying that won't phase me.

[Eagle400]

Oh, and I may not be a 2nd Lt. according to Nationals but I earned my Mitchell; therefore, I'm going to wear the rank I worked very hard to earn according to the advanced promotion guidelines.  Screw the red tape.

Is there a record at National of your Mitchell Award?  Have you been out of CAP for more than 2 years?  If the answer to both is "yes", you may wear your butter bars after you complete Level I and your E-Services profile indicates that you have completed Level I. 

Do I agree with this policy?  No.  But I am of the opinion that Level I is a joke anyway, since all the exams are open book and the classes are more like story telling sessions than actual academic classes.  So why not take Level I?   

I have been out of CAP for more than 2 years, so I will also have to take Level I before I can wear my 1st Lt bars.  No big deal, I am very confident I would ace the thing without even studying (except maybe for the "Corporation" BS, as though I care about that anyway ).  In any event, I would pass Level I if I were to take it as soon as one minute from now. 

And what is this red tape you speak of?  You pass the Level I courses and exams, the instructor sends them to National, National inputs the date you completed Level I in your E-Services profile, your commander verifies you have completed Level I, and you get promoted.

Doesn't sound like red tape to me.   

[mikeylikey]

From my sources, the Level 1 will be dramatically different before the end of 2009.  It will incorporate the new OBC that NHQ hopes to release before the end of this year.  

PLUS, level one is not all that time consuming and is a no brainer.  Cadets coming over to the Officer side need to be instructed in Senior Member specifics that they may not have picked up as a Cadet.

Anyway.....georgia_maverick.....4 years to get your Mitchell.  Perhaps you do need level one more than you think.  I do agree with you though, the two year time limit should be done away with.  

[mile_high1218]

The red tape I speak of is Level I itself.  I love the fact that they added CPPT as it addresses a very important issue that is essential in the supervision of young adults.  It's my opinion that former Mitchell cadets should be exempt from Level I if they have the paperwork to prove they have it.  Yes, as a matter of fact Nationals does have my Mitchell on file it's 46457 CO-159, as well as the three encampments I attended while as a cadet from 1998-2000.

[mile_high1218]

Dude it took me four years to get my Mitchell because I worked full-time in high school at the commissary on base after school to make my car payments and save money for college.  If you're implying that my intelligence is limited you need to back yourself up. 

[mile_high1218]

OK, let's go over it once more - Level I = three things:

1. Orientation/Foundations

2. CPPT

3. OPSEC

The Mitchell only relieves you from item 1. Former cadets are still required to do #2 and #3. Number 2 should have already been done if over 18 when leaving the cadet program.

By wearing rank w/o accompanying documentation, you are violating the integrity you signed on for on your CAPF 12.

I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of Civil Air Patrol and agree to be guided by the CAP constitution and Bylaws and comply with CAP rules and regulations as from time to time may be amended or promulgated.

I agree to abide by the decisions of those in authority of Civil Air Patrol.

Better take another look at the core values, don'tcha think?

I grew up on the Academy most of my life, so don't tell me about taking another look at our 'core values'.  I've met the requirements and my unit has signed off and sent the paper work to Montgomery.  I never said I wouldn't play by the rules.  I only meant to voice an opinion about an issue.  I didn't think it would cause people to pull out the regulations and start quoting them at me. 

That's the issue with message boards like this everyone has to one up the last guy.  It's a Pandora's box.

[mikeylikey]

   WELCOME to CAPTALK. 

[mile_high1218]

This is too much.  All I did was state an opinion.  I did what I was supposed to and that's all that matters.

[Eagle400]

From my sources, the Level 1 will be dramatically different before the end of 2009.  It will incorporate the new OBC that NHQ hopes to release before the end of this year.

That is great to hear, since I plan on returning to CAP in mid-to-late 2009.  It's about [DARN] time!

OBC stands for Officer Basic Course, right?  Will it be anything like the Army National Guard 15 week OCS program?  Also, do you know when NHQ will be releasing the OBC course curriculum?        

PLUS, level one is not all that time consuming and is a no brainer.  Cadets coming over to the Officer side need to be instructed in Senior Member specifics that they may not have picked up as a Cadet.

And what makes you think they're going to remember those specifics after completing Level I?  Also, what are these specifics you speak of?  The BS about the corporation?  How to wear the CAP corporate distinctive uniforms?

Anyway.....georgia_maverick.....4 years to get your Mitchell.  Perhaps you do need level one more than you think.  I do agree with you though, the two year time limit should be done away with.

Listen, it took me only 2 years to get the Mitchell, but once I got it, I took my sweet time.  I spent one year as a C/2d Lt, another year as a C/1st Lt, and spent the remaining 4 years as a C/Capt.  2 years to make Mitchell, 2 years to make Earhart.  That means I went from being part of 99.9% of all CAP cadets nationwide to the top 5% in only 4 years.  Do you think I need Level I as well?   

[mikeylikey]

OBC stands for Officer Basic Course, right?  Will it be anything like the Army National Guard 15 week OCS program?  Also, do you know when NHQ will be releasing the OBC course curriculum?

Yup, Officer Basic Course.  And no, it won't be like OCS.  It will be more in line with an ROTC program, think Cadet Leadership Program but for Senior Members. 

Listen, it took me only 2 years to get the Mitchell, but once I got it, I took my sweet time.  I spent one year as a C/2d Lt, another year as a C/1st Lt, and spent the remaining 4 years as a C/Capt.  2 years to make Mitchell, 2 years to make Earhart.  That means I went from being part of 99.9% of all CAP cadets nationwide to the top 5% in only 4 years.  Do you think I need Level I as well?   

You did not progress rapidly as stated in the cadet program guidelines.  I can't stand Cadets that get their Mitchell and then just halt to a slow grind.  It is a waste of your time and mine. 

And yes, you will need level one as well.  Because of the break in service. 

Whats stopping you from joining now anyway?? 

[Eagle400]

I grew up on the Academy most of my life, so don't tell me about taking another look at our 'core values'.

I staffed two encampments at the USAF Academy.  Am I honorable because of that?  No.

I am honorable because I made a decision to live up to the core values, and continue to follow through with that decision. 

When I signed my CAPF 12, I entered into an agreement with CAP that I would follow the core values.  When NHQ received the Form 12, they agreed to allow me the opportunity to continue my cadet service so long as I follow the CAP core values (and yes, that does include paying dues).       

Listen,  

I've met the requirements and my unit has signed off and sent the paper work to Montgomery.  I never said I wouldn't play by the rules.  I only meant to voice an opinion about an issue.  I didn't think it would cause people to pull out the regulations and start quoting them at me.

You're right: you never said you wouldn't play by the rules.  However, admitting that you are going to do something that breaks the rules is the same as saying you will not play by the rules.  In other words, it has the same effect.  Do you follow?

Those who are quoting regs are doing so justifiably because you have admitted that you intend to break one of CAP's core values.  This violates CAPF 12, which isin't an actual reg but carries all the authority of one.  I recommend you heed the warning that is being presented to you.  If you aren't sure what that warning is, please PM me so I can kindly explain it to you. 

That's the issue with message boards like this everyone has to one up the last guy.

Believe me, CAPTalk is nowhere near the worst.  If you go on the Military.com forum for CAP and post the same things there that you have in this CAPTalk thread, then GeneSchubeck, LRSDRanger, and all the other self-absorbed members of that forum will eat you alive.

However, I highly recommend you don't become active on the Military.com forum for CAP.  If you do, it will rot your brain and kill your soul.  

It's a Pandora's box.

No. 

However, if the moderators were SarDragon, PHall, shorning, Lordmonar, Nick Critelli, and Chief Chiafos, then yes, it would definitely be pandora's box.     

[Camas]

Nice example to set there SM Minton.

Something very wrong with a member calling himself a 2d Lt when, in fact, he's listed as a senior member without grade. His commander and the GAWG wing commander, hopefully, are aware of this blatant abuse of the privilege of wearing officer insignia and passing himself off as an officer. Try that in the real military and see what happens. It's not a joke! If it's not posted in e-services, the promotion isn't valid.  Based on your postings you need much more than Level I; you need to grow up.