Hey look, CAPP 151 is finally getting an update!

[dwb]

Draft CAPP 151.

Looks like the NHQ Cadet Team is taking ownership of this oft-quoted, but very out-of-date pamphlet, and transforming it into something a little more useful.

The white paper with the rationale for updating the pamphlet is on the proving grounds page.

Thoughts?  I like it, assuming they can find good pictures for everything.

[CAP Producer]

I like it.   

[Pylon]

I like the draft!  It's a much more user-friendly manual. 

Generally speaking, a pamphlet like 151 is going to get the most use and need from people without military backgrounds who don't know a whole lot about the topic, and new cadets.  Framing the pamphlet more as an educational tool and user-friendly guide is a great idea.  The photos will help, too.

Hopefully it will serve a good reference.  I for one would love to include this in the welcome materials for new cadets without hesitation, and for new SMs as well.

[NIN]

New filename: http://www.cap.gov/documents/Respect_on_Display.pdf

[dwb]

Updated file name in my original post.  Curt must be messing with me. 

[NIN]

Updated file name in my original post.  Curt must be messing with me. 

Guaranteed

[MIKE]

One thing I noticed was the use of the term rank throughout, I dunno if this is one of the things they are planing to change when they update the leadership texts i.e. be like the military and stop being different/difficult... but it's just another one of those consistent inconsistencies.

Noticed the changes to a lot of the stuff we usually argue about... Mostly changed to annoy me.  

[mikeylikey]

I don't like the overuse of the phrase   "Air Force-Style customs and courtesies".  They are Air Force Customs and Courtesies, why couldn't they just say that.  Perhaps appeasing those that don't want the AF association with CAP??

[Briski]

I don't like the overuse of the phrase   "Air Force-Style customs and courtesies".  They are Air Force Customs and Courtesies, why couldn't they just say that.  Perhaps appeasing those that don't want the AF association with CAP??

Or perhaps to remind us that even though we get saluted and wear Air Force-style uniforms, we're still CAP.

Kinda like the MRE entree pasta with vegetables in alfredo-style sauce. It may look and feel like real alfredo sauce, but don't be surprised when it tastes like MRE.

Overall, I like the draft CAPP 151. And it's about time, too.

[Gunner C]

A fine point of tradition:  USAAF flight officers were addressed as "Mister" as were USAF warrant officers.  There is a LONG tradition behind this, dating back to the 18th century.  I would suppose that "Miss" would need to be added these days.

GC

[Matt]

Good reading, but it's too bubbly...  It's like the Windows Vista of Pamphlets (not in functionality then it wouldn't work, just in appearance)...

[pixelwonk]

Good reading, but it's too bubbly...  It's like the Windows Vista of Pamphlets (not in functionality then it wouldn't work, just in appearance)...

thank you, and I thought I was the only one to think so!

[mikeylikey]

^ Is it me or all of the new "releases" from NHQ looking somewhat "babbly" or should we say cartoonish?!?!

[captrncap]

I was looking through it and notice the interchangeable nature of grade vs. rank on page 5

For example, in CAP, a captain may command a squadron that includes majors and colonels as its members. An aircraft may be commanded by a captain, and crewed by two majors. Or perhaps a cadet NCO is leading a drill team that includes her cadet commander, a cadet major. Situations like these are common in CAP.

Still, the lower ranking officer should initiate the salute. And looking at the matter from the other side, the higher ranking officer should respect the junior officer's position.


Is this now stating that a Squadron CC (regardless of grade) is outranked by a Lt Col and should salute the Lt Col? 

Wouldn't this also be the case at encampments when the Encampment CC may be a 1st Lt and has Majors on staff?

[MIKE]

Is this now stating that a Squadron CC (regardless of grade) is outranked by a Lt Col and should salute the Lt Col? 

Wouldn't this also be the case at encampments when the Encampment CC may be a 1st Lt and has Majors on staff?

Absofrigginlutely!  Junior officers (1st Lt) initiate salutes to senior officers (Maj) regardless of position in the chain o' command.

[RiverAux]

Is this now stating that a Squadron CC (regardless of grade) is outranked by a Lt Col and should salute the Lt Col? 

Thats the way it has always been in CAP in regards to C&C.  Nothing new here. 

[captrncap]

Is this now stating that a Squadron CC (regardless of grade) is outranked by a Lt Col and should salute the Lt Col? 

Thats the way it has always been in CAP in regards to C&C.  Nothing new here. 

Sorry but RANK and GRADE are not the same - the Lt Col out Grades the Capt but the Sq CC out ranks the Lt Col

[MIKE]

You are misinformed on CAPs definition of rank.  From L2KAB: SE Chapter 1.  Rank is ones seniority within a given grade based on date of grade.

[Brad]

You are misinformed on CAPs definition of rank.  From L2KAB: SE Chapter 1.  Rank is ones seniority within a given grade based on date of grade.

Dittos from me on this one. I'm drawn back to the classic Navy example of how a ship might have a Commander Navigator, and a Lieutenant Commander as the Captain, but the Lieutenant Commander would still salute the Commander where the situation called for it, even though the Lieutenant Commander is the Old Man, and the Commander is just the Navigator

Interesting bit of trivia though, in the Navy, regardless of rank, a ship's CO is addressed as "Captain" in addition to his rank address. ex: "Captain Smith" is just as valid as "Commander Smith".

I'm also reminded of that line from Band of Brothers: "We salute the rank, not the man." Yea I know, if you take the time to analyze the quote, it's actually bad in a way, but it still explains my point.

[mikeylikey]

You are misinformed on CAPs definition of rank.  From L2KAB: SE Chapter 1.  Rank is ones seniority within a given grade based on date of grade.

They need to add that cadet cartoon picture.......the one where they are standing on the steps discussing Rank VS Grade.  That always made the subject clear to anyone wondering.