Air Command and Staff College

[tonyairplane]

My comments on the ACSC, for those that might be considering taking it instead of RSC or NSC or just to learn.

Rather than use a week of vacation time, and frankly mostly because I couldn't stand the thought of a week of whatever it is that I have heard goes on at RSC (I asked around a lot and I know some RSCs are better than others but you guys know what I mean), I decided to take the distance learning (DL) version of ACSC (version 6.0), and I hope that this helps some others with their decision.  This may end up being a little blunt but I am giving my perception so please keep flames to a minimum.

Well it was a tough six months.  Parts of it are very easy, other parts are very interesting, but some parts are labor intensive and boring; there are multiple major issues with their software, and there are some weird things that go on during the program itself.  The good news is that it is done completely online, no need to go to a testing center.

The first thing is that they are constantly telling you to take screen shots every time that you finish a module or exercise, because their software doesn't reliably record those.  Sure enough, on a few occasions, I had to open a ticket (this is their answer to just about everything that goes wrong) and attach a screen shot of my completion of an exercise or a passing of a test.  I made a folder on my desktop to hold all of the screenshots.

The course consists of a series of 8 online modules (please see the attachment) which they call self-paced, interspersed with four "applied" modules which you will be enrolled in with about twenty other students, and one instructor. These applied courses each last two weeks except for the fourth one which lasts three weeks.  You work your way across the arrow.

The self-paced modules require a lot of reading, and each has a test or an exercise or both during and at the end of each portion of it.  These can be fairly difficult even after doing all of the recommended reading.  Some of the exercises do not work as they should, and it is recommended to everyone that they read the discussion board for each module, where others that have figured out all of the tricks post suggestions (but not answers.)

The applied courses require writing a paper on the topic of that course (Leadership, National Security, etc.) and then answering questions and critiquing other students' work via online posts.  The posts become very tedious and repetitive to do and they all must have references and proper citations just as the papers need to.  I noticed that after a short while, everyone (well, except for a few you-know-whats that make it difficult for the rest) catches on, and we all started complimenting each others work and posts.  Even if you disagree, you learn to start with "that's a great post and an interesting point, it made me think.  But have you considered...?"

You will be in the applied courses with a variety of folks - in mine we had Coast Guard, Navy, Air Force, and Army officers as well as an occasional CAP officer.  Each applied course will have a different set of students because people progress thru the self-paced modules at different rates.  I think that I ended up with one or two people that were in all four of my applied courses.

The applied courses start on a Sunday and depending on the course end 2 or 3 weeks after that on Saturday at midnight.  Yes, this means that you will typically have to be working on this on Saturday, as people will be posting things that you need to reply to then. 

You will notice as you go thru the program that there are a lot of people expressing frustration with how it's going, mostly due to the technical issues but also due to the lack of clear direction at certain points.  My advice is to just hang in there, file a ticket if you get stuck, and make sure that you meet all of the due dates.

Be prepared to spend a lot of time on this if you are hoping to finish in what they say is an average of 5 to 7 months.  I spent lunch hours, time before and after work, evenings, and weekends and it took me 6 months.  Of course in the applied courses you are basically on their schedule, your papers and posts have to be completed by when they say.

When you finish one course, you have to apply for the next. My recommendation is that when you find out when one of your applied courses is starting, clear your schedule for the next two weeks of weeknights and weekends (3 weeks for the last one, Applied Joint Warfare, aka AJW.)  AJW is super-intensive and fast paced and has stuff due in the different weeks that overlap - for example, you might have a paper due and on that same day you will have had to have responded (with citations, and showing critical thinking) to five classmates posts from the week prior.

Overall I would say that I learned a lot; the readings, writing the papers and answering all of the posts really opened my eyes up to a lot of areas that I hadn't previously known about in much depth.

My recommendation to the Air Force is to fix the technical issues, and make the instructions at each stage much clearer.  I told them this in my exit survey.

My recommendation to CAP is to come up with a CAP specific version of this program, with a slant more toward what we need to know.  I suggested this in an email and a phone call with the Prof. Dev. folks at NHQ and their replies indicated that this may not ever happen.

So do I recommend this program to others in CAP? Yes, especially if you cannot or do not want to take a week off for RSC or NSC, and you're not in a real hurry to finish your requirements for Lt Col or Level V. Just be sure that you have realistic expectations of the time and work required, and the patience to deal with some technical glitches along the way.

TA

[capmaj]

Glad you got a lot from the course.

Little curious about  "couldn't stand the thought of a week of whatever it is that I have heard goes on at RSC (I asked around a lot and I know some RSCs are better than others but you guys know what I mean)."

Kind of a blanket statement if you haven't ever been to one.

[THRAWN]

Congrats. I finished in August of 2011, just before it went totally web based. I find myself using more of it than I thought I would as time goes by. It sounds a lot like they're doing the same for everyone. I start the Naval War College JPME1 course in a few weeks, and it's all Blackboard driven. Again, congrats!  :clap:

[UH60guy]

Excellent info, thanks a bunch for the detailed info.  I was considering taking it myself, as I'm in an Army commissioned year group as well that has a significant backlog for CGSC (now called ILE), and was hoping to backdoor my way in by double dipping and getting credit thru CAP. I think your info did help me get over the "grass is greener" perspective and I'll keep trying thru Army channels.

Now if someone has a review if CAP-based Air War College I'm all ears

[DrJbdm]

Excellent information, thanks for all the details. Has there been any word on if or when CAP Officers may be allowed to enroll in the masters degree-joint warfare program? From looking at the AU webpage it says this about eligibility:

Military - O-4 selects and 0-4s on active duty, non-extended active duty, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard. Individuals with either a Master's Degree or who have completed IDE, to include ACSC, may apply. However, individuals that have completed both a Master's Degree and IDE are not eligible.

Civilian - Federal civil service employees with at least 2 years civil service and a bachelor's degree, and are in the grade of GS-12 or NSPS pay band 2.

 
  The other questions are, in which manner do they want you to submit proof of having an accredited bachelors degree? Would I have my university send them an official transcript or do they simply accept a copy of your diploma? I have heard rumor of both..... Every graduate school I know of wants a copy of your official transcript sent from the school, I am assuming AU is the same? (that's the easiest way, considering my diploma is framed up and would be a pain to copy it)

  The other question, is the "diploma" you receive for successfully completing ACSC, is it suitable for framing?  Thanks again for such an informative review.

[MSG Mac]

Excellent information, thanks for all the details. Has there been any word on if or when CAP Officers may be allowed to enroll in the masters degree-joint warfare program? From looking at the AU webpage it says this about eligibility:

Military - O-4 selects and 0-4s on active duty, non-extended active duty, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard. Individuals with either a Master's Degree or who have completed IDE, to include ACSC, may apply. However, individuals that have completed both a Master's Degree and IDE are not eligible.

Civilian - Federal civil service employees with at least 2 years civil service and a bachelor's degree, and are in the grade of GS-12 or NSPS pay band 2.

 
  The other questions are, in which manner do they want you to submit proof of having an accredited bachelors degree? Would I have my university send them an official transcript or do they simply accept a copy of your diploma? I have heard rumor of both..... Every graduate school I know of wants a copy of your official transcript sent from the school, I am assuming AU is the same? (that's the easiest way, considering my diploma is framed up and would be a pain to copy it)

  The other question, is the "diploma" you receive for successfully completing ACSC, is it suitable for framing?  Thanks again for such an informative review.

Yes it is

[LSThiker]

 
  The other questions are, in which manner do they want you to submit proof of having an accredited bachelors degree? Would I have my university send them an official transcript or do they simply accept a copy of your diploma? I have heard rumor of both..... Every graduate school I know of wants a copy of your official transcript sent from the school, I am assuming AU is the same? (that's the easiest way, considering my diploma is framed up and would be a pain to copy it)

To enroll into ACSC, NHQ will require you to submit an unofficial transcript.  They will forward this to AU.

[DrJbdm]

That makes it easy, I can print that directly from my university's online portal. So no word on the masters program being open for CAP? Can someone PM with an image of how the "diploma" from ACSC looks? kinda curious. Thanks for the info. I think I'll be enrolling after the summer.

[LSThiker]

That makes it easy, I can print that directly from my university's online portal. So no word on the masters program being open for CAP?

No.  Only the ACSC-DL non-masters.

[THRAWN]

CAP alone will not get you into the masters program. I will PM you a scan of my cert in the morning....

[tonyairplane]

Yes, that is correct, you have to send your unofficial transcript to Jennifer Carroll at NHQ before they enroll you, she will then send an email to ACSC that you are approved to start.

The diploma that I received is surprisingly nice.  I picked up a nice frame for it and it is on display in my office.

A funny thing that happened, is that last week, which is weeks after I received the official course completion email and the diploma, I got another grades update email, the last course instructor (Applied Joint Forces) finally entered all of our grades...?

[DrJbdm]

I visited the AU webpage, from what they say, the American Council on Education (ACE) has evaluated ACSC for 21 hrs of graduate credit. Does anyone have any recommendations of a university that will accept the majority of those credits towards a masters program?

I'm going to send everything in this summer so that I may hopefully start in the fall, the summer is always a very busy time for me. How long has it taken all of you to complete the program?  I appreciate the information you have all posted, it's nice having some good info into the program and what to expect.

[JeffDG]

It's going to depend on the Masters program and how the courses an ACSC match up with the specific courses in that Masters program.

MBA or something in the business/leadership realm will probably accept a lot of it.  A MSc in Organic Chemistry, not so much.

[THRAWN]

There are a few schools that I know of that have accepted credits from AU courses. Thomas Edison State College in NJ, AMU, University of Maryland...off the top of my head. I'm sure some of the diploma mills will gladly take your money to validate your education. Like it was previously said, it depends on how you are going to apply it. Master's in emergency management, homeland security, national defense studies, sure....in education counceling...probably not...

[tonyairplane]

[Mitchell 1969]

I visited the AU webpage, from what they say, the American Council on Education (ACE) has evaluated ACSC for 21 hrs of graduate credit. Does anyone have any recommendations of a university that will accept the majority of those credits towards a masters program?

I'm going to send everything in this summer so that I may hopefully start in the fall, the summer is always a very busy time for me. How long has it taken all of you to complete the program?  I appreciate the information you have all posted, it's nice having some good info into the program and what to expect.

Here's one. Regionally accredited, online.

http://www.trident.edu/media/default/pdf/US-Armed-Forces-Catalog.pdf

[GroundHawg]

What I have found is that almost all will accept ACE courses for credit, but how many they will apply to your degree completion is the big difference from school to school.
For masters level, most degrees are between 30-50 hours, and the schools I am looking at, will apply anywhere from 3 to 12 hours for elective completion. With SOS and ACSC, I wouldn't have to do any electives, which is nice because it is "free" credit. Free being a relative term because even though you don't pay for the courses, some universities charge you a "transcription" fee to have ACE credits added to your transcript and be accepted. My alma mater charges $25 per hour.

[JeffDG]

What I have found is that almost all will accept ACE courses for credit, but how many they will apply to your degree completion is the big difference from school to school.
For masters level, most degrees are between 30-50 hours, and the schools I am looking at, will apply anywhere from 3 to 12 hours for elective completion. With SOS and ACSC, I wouldn't have to do any electives, which is nice because it is "free" credit. Free being a relative term because even though you don't pay for the courses, some universities charge you a "transcription" fee to have ACE credits added to your transcript and be accepted. My alma mater charges $25 per hour.

It really depends on the Masters program.  Like I said, if you're looking for a Masters in Organic Chemistry, then ACSC isn't going to cover much.  I'm looking at potentially pursuing a MS in Management and Leadership (http://www.wgu.edu/wgu/prog_guide/MSML.pdf), so here are the items:

"Managing Organizations and Leading People":  ACSC should cover that
"Business Acumen":  Maybe...corporate and AF are kinda different
"Managing Human Capital":  Probably
"Becoming and Effective Leader":  I think the AF might know a thing or two about this!
"Management Communications":  Again, probably
"Ethical Leadership":  Good chance it's covered
"Data Driven Decision Making":  ??
"Change Management and Innovation":  ??
"Strategic Management":  Have to look at the details
"Management and Leadership Capstone":  Yeah, they're gonna make you do that one.

[DrJbdm]

So Thrawn, are you saying a diploma mill isn't a great idea? I earned my bachelors degree by giving the guy at the corner a $100 for a degree, he said it was accreditted by the other guy a street over....So does this count as being an accreditted degree? 

I have heard of Thomas Edison State College, good school as are most of the others on the list you gave me. I earned my second bachelors degree at Charter Oak State College. Groundhog, thanks for the info, I guess when the time comes I will be looking for a good school that offers a masters program that will allow me to use the most credit earned from ACSC. From a little searching, I found a lot of programs that will allow you to transfer in as many as 12 graduate hours, but I havent found any that accept more then 12.

Hmmm, I wonder what the guy down the street will charge me for a masters program....... 

[jimmydeanno]

American Military University/American Public University will probably apply quite a bit to course work.  Regionally Accredited.

http://www.apus.edu/