Can a Senior Member NCO be a Squadron Commander?

[SarDragon]

To elaborate, the label associated with O-7 has been contentious for many years.

Commodore originated as a courtesy title reserved for captains in command of a fleet or squadron, around 1775. It remained so until the Civil War, when it was made a flag rank. In 1899, Commodoores were made rear admirals, and because of the potential expense of pay raises for all the former commodores to the level of rear admirals, the lower half was paid at the level of brigadier generals (BG). All rear admirals, upper half or lower half, were considered equal to major generals, and wore two stars. Ultimately, this didn't sit well with BGs from the Army, so Rear Admiral (lower half) was made equal to BG in 1916.

During WWII, commodore was restored as a one star rank, for officers serving in command of a fleet or squadron. This went away around 1950.

In the early 1980s, following years of objections and complaints by the U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, and U.S. Marine Corps, efforts were begun to reinstate commodore as an official rank in the U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard with a pay grade of O-7, replacing "rear admiral (lower half)", which were Navy and Coast Guard flag officers who were paid at the one-star rank of an O-7, but who had previously worn the same two-star rank insignia as a rear admiral (upper half), an O-8. In 1982, the rank of commodore was finally and officially reintroduced in the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard as an O-7 rank. This was intended to quell the long-running dissatisfaction by U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps, and U.S. Air Force officers with the U.S. Navy's and the U.S. Coast Guard's policy of honoring its rear admirals (lower half), who received the pay grade of O-7 while wearing the rank insignia of a two-star admiral, i.e., an O-8. The one-star officer's rank and insignia for Navy and Coast Guard officers was thence re-established with the initial title of commodore admiral.

In 1983, following numerous protests by Navy and Coast Guard officers to the Chief of Naval Operations and the Commandant of the Coast Guard that this new title was unwieldy and confusing, the rank of "commodore admiral" was simplified to "commodore".

This latter did not stem all of the confusion, however, because the Navy had long assigned the title (although not the rank) of commodore to selected captains (pay grade O-6) holding major operational commands. Since at least the 1950s, commodore had also been used a "position title" for senior naval captains who commanded destroyer squadrons, submarine squadrons, amphibious squadrons, patrol boat flotillas, patrol hydrofoil missile ship squadrons, special warfare groups, air groups and air wings (other than those officers commanding carrier air groups/carrier air wings, who were historically known and referred to as "CAGs"), construction regiments, and other large seagoing commands consisting of multiple ships, submarines, aviation squadrons, etc. The U.S. Coast Guard had never previously used the title.

Later in 1983, the one-star U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard admiral rank was changed back to its original O-7 pay grade title of "Rear Admiral (Lower Half)". From then on, commodore has remained a title for Navy captains in command of more than a single unit (other than captains commanding Carrier Air Wings, who retained their traditional title of "CAG") and all Navy and Coast Guard one-star admirals were subsequently referred to as rear admiral (lower half).

In 1985, the U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard again renamed the rank of commodore to rear admiral (lower half), but with the single star for collar insignia and applicable shoulder insignia (i.e., flight suits, jackets, etc.), a single silver star on top of solid gold background shoulder board insignia, and a single broad gold sleeve stripe insignia for dress blue uniforms (service dress blue, full dress blue and dinner dress blue) of all officers in pay grade O-7, and for the dress white uniforms of female officers in pay grade O-7. The term "commodore" again reverted to that of an honorary title versus an actual rank for the limited number of captains in command of multiple units.

[JeffDG]

So...lemme get this straight.

The Navy and Coast Guard can have a Chief running a boat called "Captain", and somehow not confuse that with the grade of "Captain" (O-6), but they can't resolve the same thing with Commodore

[MSG Mac]

I've always preferred Commodore over Rear Admiral Lower Half. Always sounded like the guy wearing the tail end of a two man horse costume. The change from Como came about because new O-7's felt it was the title wasn't good enough to denote a flag officer. Maybe they would have accepted the title of Commodore, if the alternative was Rear Admiral Junior Grade.

[Eclipse]

So are RALH's "telephone admirals" in the same way Lt Cols are "telephone colonels"?

[SarDragon]

So...lemme get this straight.

The Navy and Coast Guard can have a Chief running a boat called "Captain", and somehow not confuse that with the grade of "Captain" (O-6), but they can't resolve the same thing with Commodore

Enlisted folks are never "Captains". The guy in charge of a small boat is called the Coxswain.

The Rear Admiral thing is a case of egos and politics that has gone out of control for so long that there's no fix that will satisfy everyone. The current situation seems to be the best compromise.

[Stonewall]

I don't think a CAP NCO should be a squadron commander.

Would an NCO be able to be a unit commander in the military?

CAP is not the military you argue?  Then what are you doing wearing military NCO rank?

[Eclipse]

I don't think a CAP NCO should be a squadron commander.

Would an NCO be able to be a unit commander in the military?

CAP is not the military you argue?  Then what are you doing wearing military NCO rank?

Logic will get you appointed to the Vulcan council, but has no place in CAP.

It appears the soon to be "reinvention of spinning wheels" will preclude NCOs from being commanders.
Which will potentially cause issue for a number of unit who have, presumably, good CCs they will lose.

You can see where these things start to break down when filtered by reality.

[Stonewall]

Then switch over and become CAP officer. I don't understand the dilemma.  It is CAP, no one really cares what rank you are or if you WERE a sergeant major or currently a 2d Lt in CAP.  Contribute to the program, be a goo leader, don't screw up, and I'll give you a set of stars to wear if it makes you happy.  I don't care what you did in the military, I care about what you can do now, in CAP.

[Eclipse]

Then switch over and become CAP officer. I don't understand the dilemma.  It is CAP, no one really cares what rank you are or if you WERE a sergeant major or currently a 2d Lt in CAP.  Contribute to the program, be a goo leader, don't screw up, and I'll give you a set of stars to wear if it makes you happy.  I don't care what you did in the military, I care about what you can do now, in CAP.

Again, your logic is simultaneously flawless and irrelevant.  Bear in mind, also, that the
proposal or plan, or whatever, indicates members will become NCOs organically as well, so it's not just prior military.

Personally, I don't think people should be able to hop back and forth at will for the sake of expediency any
more then they could in the military.  It basically negates the idea that NCOs are "the backbone of CAP"
for the sake of typical CAP expediency.

If they are important and the backbone, then they stay where they are "needed". 

You don't suddenly become a skilled manager in the officer sense "because", and if the assertion
is made that the grade is irrelevant, then...it's irrelevant, in which case, why bother with the distinction,
distraction, and potential negative of creating another way to divide an already divided membership.