SM Rank

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Actually, I've never heard of a case where it isn't required to address a WO as "sir"/"ma'am."

I didn't run into a lot of them, as the AF (inexplicably) doesn't have them any more, nor does CAP.  I'd trade in my Captain's bars for CWO-3 in a heartbeat to be just a specialist in one thing.  This is a good article on the subject:

http://www.usawoa.org/downloads/AFA_1191tween.pdf

I don't know why the Air Force had such a problem with them, especially considering that a good chunk of aircrew in WWII were Flight Officers:



When I would see them, I certainly didn't take the time to look for the name to say "Good afternoon, Mister Jones."  I popped a salute and said "Good afternoon, Sir/Good Evening, Ma'am."  Anyway, they look like lieutenants until you get close enough to see the little squares on their hardware.

I find the title of this thread a bit puzzling, since "SMWOG," "SM," etc., is not a rank.  I do not see why CAP insists on keeping this anachronistic title.

[lordmonar]

http://www.usawoa.org/woheritage/wo_prog_other_svc.htm

And here.

http://www.usawoa.org/woheritage/wo_prog_other_svc.htm

Here is quick explanation.

Basically they said that they did not really need them and SNCO's better filled that role.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I read the article, too, and it just seemed to me that the AF didn't want to take the time to figure out what to do with warrants, so they canned them, despite the fact that the other four armed services seem to do just fine with them.  I knew a CG recruiter who was a Chief Petty Officer and he "warranted."  A former supervisor of mine, a "mustang," went up to MSgt and then got an officer's commission...he said "if Warrant Officer grade had been available I'd have gone for that...it was really weird being an old guy, Vietnam service (and shineola loads of ribbons), wearing second looie bars that young fresh-out-of-OTS/AF Academy officers were wearing."

We're, as far as I can tell, the only nation to grant commissioned status to its (Chief) Warrant Officers...in other countries they occupy a tier in between SNCO's and commissioned officers, and do a lot in terms of leadership (and, as new recruits find out, discipline).  You don't salute them but you do call them "Sir" or "Ma'am."

http://www.defence.gov.au/news/raafnews/editions/4514/topstories/story10.htm

I wish we could find another name for "Senior Member"....the RAF has started using "Student Officer" instead of "Officer Cadet," and it sounds a lot better.

[lordmonar]

Well....to be honest....they were not JUST FINE with them....but the WO's were able to define their positions and change their role in a way that they found that they could use them.

If the Army had not gotten helocopters in the 50's they may not have kept WO's.

[RogueLeader]

Well....to be honest....they were not JUST FINE with them....but the WO's were able to define their positions and change their role in a way that they found that they could use them.

If the Army had not gotten helicopters in the 50's they may not have kept WO's.

Still have some in the Engineers.  Just saying. . .

[lordmonar]

Well....to be honest....they were not JUST FINE with them....but the WO's were able to define their positions and change their role in a way that they found that they could use them.

If the Army had not gotten helicopters in the 50's they may not have kept WO's.

Still have some in the Engineers.  Just saying. . .

and comm and intel and medical and 42 other techncal specialties.....I was just wondering if they did not have the nitch in the aviation branch...would the Army have kept them everywhere else.

[RogueLeader]

Well....to be honest....they were not JUST FINE with them....but the WO's were able to define their positions and change their role in a way that they found that they could use them.

If the Army had not gotten helicopters in the 50's they may not have kept WO's.

Still have some in the Engineers.  Just saying. . .

and comm and intel and medical and 42 other techncal specialties.....I was just wondering if they did not have the nitch in the aviation branch...would the Army have kept them everywhere else.

Roger.  Hard to tell.  They still have plenty of good use left.

[lordmonar]

Well.....if you don't mind a little O bashing.......from a SNCO perspective I could see a lot of use of the WO ranks in the USAF too......bascially it would eliminate all the Junior Officer jobs in all the support specialties.....which would cause the problem of how you grow good company grade officers if they don't have meaningful jobs as Lt's and Capts.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My dad told me that warrants were quite common when he was in, both in the active and National Guard sides.

He said that the guy who ran the motor pool when he was in Germany was a CWO...and once asked a six-month-wonder butterbar looie "What are you doing in MY motor pool, son?!"

[SarDragon]

A warrant officer is a "mister," a "miss" or a "mrs." in the Army, Navy and Marine Corps, and was so in the Air Force and in CAP.

In USN or USCG it is Mister, but in the Army or the Marines; it is Chief Smith, Chief Warrant Officer Smith or in Marine Infantry, Gunner Smith (which will be hard to explain to a non Marine, but it is a cool title, I had a pit bull I named "Gunner" when I was at Camp Lejeune)   

The Canoe Club got away from the "Mister" thing for O-x officers when I was still on active duty. Its use was reserved for warrant officers.

[Angus]

To me the issue I see getting back to the original topic comes down to training.  We all do our best to teach our cadets the differences in the Senior Member Structure, but if they don't always see a certain type of Senior Member in this case a SMWOG they don't always know what to do.  I ran into this when I joined CAP and the cadets had no clue what to call me. 


Also my guess is the OP who is a young woman might look like she could be a cadet which could cause some confusion when looking quick.  Although  the "CAP" cloth cutouts should have also alievated this. 

[MSG Mac]

One of the reasons given for the Air Forces elimination of the WO Corps was that in 1959 the grades of E-8 and E-9 were established. The Super NCO's were to "relieve" junior officers of thier administrative duties which were to be taken by the new SMSgts and CMSGTs. Therefore WO's would be eliminated by attrition as they retired. The other services were supposed to follow suit, but obviously found an excuse to keep them.

[SarDragon]

The structures of the others services lends themselves to having warrant officers. For instance, the Navy uses them as division officers. (next echelon below department, and above work center)

[Woodsy]

Florida Wing Operating Instruction 12-03, dated 28 March 2012 states the following: 


FO NOTE 2: When addressing a flight
officer, he/she is "Mr.," "Miss" or
"Mrs.," not "Flight Officer."


http://www.flwg.us/systems/file_download.ashx?pg=618&ver=7

[Critical AOA]

E1 through E9, WO-1through WO-4 and O-1 through O-10 for a total of 23 different grades. Does any organization really need that many?

[SarDragon]

I guess so. It hasn't changed in over 50 years, and probably over a hundred before they added E-8 and 9. It's all based on skill levels and experience.

[Майор Хаткевич]

E1 through E9, WO-1through WO-4 and O-1 through O-10 for a total of 23 different grades. Does any organization really need that many?

To be fair, a lot of it is also "Pay" motivated.

E1-E9
O1-O10
WO1-WO4

They aren't interconnected, but all designate skill, time, and pay.

[BillB]

There must have been other changes in the past 50 years. a USAF E-3 used to have one stripe, now has two.

[bosshawk]

At least in the Army, there is a CWO-5, so that adds one.

[SarDragon]

E1 through E9, WO-1through WO-4 and O-1 through O-10 for a total of 23 different grades. Does any organization really need that many?

To be fair, a lot of it is also "Pay" motivated.

E1-E9
O1-O10
WO1-WO4

They aren't interconnected, but all designate skill, time, and pay.

Ah, but they are, at least in the Canoe Club.

E-6 and E-7 may go LDO, to O-1
E-7 thru E-9 are the entry point to WO
Warrants may also go LDO