Senior member Professional Development/Grade advancement

[Dragoon]

Because someone's gonna argue "if you require Wing service for Lt Col, then you are discriminating against all the folks who live too far from Wing HQ to participate."

Not going to be too cogent an argument with me.  I spent the better part of a year on North Carolina staff as an assistant safety officer.  The Wing HQ is at Burlington, approximately 800 miles from my front door.  I made every meeting.  Of course, I already was a Lieutenant Colonel.

Exactly.  When there's a will and a desire to serve, there's a way.

In the reserve or guard, sometimes if you want to get promoted you need to transfer to a unit that has an opening for that grade.  I've seen reservists fly 100s of miles every month to be part of a unit that would had a slot for them.  I've also known folks who accepted the fact that they'd probably never get promoted to the top as long as they stayed in their current unit.


But I think as long was there is no responsibility or authority tied to CAP grade, it will be seen as a PD Award, and therefore something that everyone should have an equal chance at getting.

[ddelaney103]

I think you have the answer to the problem already. There are numerous NCO's in the CAP that are being underutilized. Likewise, the lack of enlisted grades in general makes the CAP a top heavy and cumbersome organization.

Try This:

Everyone starts out as Airman. They work their way up to SAmn while doing Level 1, GES, basic CAP stuff. Let's say it takes 1 year. At that point, you select a career track such as Officer or Enlisted and a specialty track. Officer candidates with take up FO grades and spend the next year in OCS. Enlisted will start formal NCO Development. NCO's are trained instructors. We are the ones that are trained to DO, officers are trained to tell. Officers are strategic, NCO's are tactical. It's a perfect fit. The only requirement is that there be a way to provide oversight to assure that the product is high quality.

The end produces members that have a good understanding of CAP before they assume duties they may not be ready for and a tactical force trained to implement the commanders policies effectively and efficiently.

Needs some work but it can work.

A few problems.

First, "select" - the reason we got away from NCO grades was because given a choice, people would rather be officers.  You either have to set up a gatekeeper function (pilot license, college degree) or just force everyone into the enlisted track and promote the best out to the officer track.  Either way you will end up with people disgruntled over not being an officer.

Another problem is our units are too small to effectively handle the separate officer and enlisted cultures.  If one of the first things you do to a small group is divide them, team spirit is going to take a hit.  Frankly, this sort of culture is implemented very unevenly in the Real AF, especially the Guard.

If we want to limit our officers to make them special, we would be better off using a WO/FO system for most of our members.  Then it's just a matter of giving the officers authority based on grade, get rid of Cadet officers and we have a working system without piles of grief.

I wouldn't hold my breath on it, though...

[Capt M. Sherrod]

I have not had a chance to completely digest all of it, however, I have started to look at the paper that was generated from the PD Summit that was held in March.  You can find the paper at the bottom of the PD page in the Members Section.  I have also linked it here:

http://www.cap.gov/documents/PDSummitMar07.pdf

I found it an interesting read.  It also looks like it starts to address our concerns/comments about more "professional and realistic" PD.  They acknowledge that some of the material we have is over 20 years old.  I'd like to know what others think of this.  I'd also like to put a package of ideas together to present to the Summit members prior to their next meeting.  If anyone is interested in helping with this, please PM to coordinate.

[Dragoon]

I really liked the part about aknowledging the fact that many members want to be "specialists" who only do one thing (fly, chaperone cadets, play with radios, etc), and that they need some sort of training/currency program.

In fact, a large number of our members don't really want to do anything above squadron staff level.  Acknowledging that there's no reason to push everyone towards Level V is a very realistic attitude to take.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

While getting everyone to Level 5 is ideal, obviously not everyone has the bandwith to do so.  Also, you can see towards the end of the document that somewhere between 95 and 96 percent do not complete Level 5 anyway.  That is a rather staggering number in my opinion.

Another item of interst and worth noting is the overabundance of Capt. in the organization.  My guess would be due to the "professional appointments" that then do not follow through and continue to progress.

Like I said, though, an interesting read IMHO, YMMV.

[ZigZag911]

As it stands we already start everyone out a 'enlisted' - SM without grade.

Rather than have a 'gatekeeper' requirement that prevents some members from becoming officers, why use the 'gate' to determine training paths.

Those lacking a college degree or other relevant experience (pilot rating beyond private, military service, etc) would follow a longer professional development 'path' to fill in some of the gaps in their backgrounds.

As a rule, I think it ought to take a year or two for the folks with college degrees, advanced pilot certificates, military experience, to become CAP officers....in part because I think Level 1 and Level 2 should be required for officer grade (as well as for command appointments at squadron or group levels).

With that as a guide, I'd say another three years minimum for those with only a high school education to earn officer rank. This would allow time for practical experience to be gained, and to complete Level 1, Level 2, and some sort of 'officer training course'.

I fully agree with reinstating NCO ranks in CAP for all members, realizing that some prefer the 'hands on' leadership & instructor roles filled by NCOs.

Even on this board, how often do we read posts from folks who want to do one thing, really well, at squadron level.....that, to me, describes someone similar to a military NCO.

[Skyray]

Some years ago a very experienced CAP member mentioned to me that in his opinion a very high percentage of Senior Members dropped out shortly after completing Level 5.  I don't know how to do a valid survey to check this out, but he was highly involved in membership and retention and I respect his opinion.  The dynamic makes logical sense, many people are motivated by challenge, and after the Gill Robb Wilson there aren't many in CAP.  Maybe we should give them a waiver so that they can go for SPAATZ?

[davedove]

On the same chart it shows that only 71% of senior members have completed Level II, so I'm not surprised that only about 5% complete Level V.

[DeputyDog]

Some years ago a very experienced CAP member mentioned to me that in his opinion a very high percentage of Senior Members dropped out shortly after completing Level 5. <snip>  The dynamic makes logical sense, many people are motivated by challenge, and after the Gill Robb Wilson there aren't many in CAP.

I can sympathize with that to some extent. I'm 28 and have completed Level V. I plan on staying in CAP until well past retirement age. What more is there to challenge me in professional development outside of ACSC and AWC for the next 40 or so years?

Getting master ratings in every single specialty track? 

[Ricochet13]

I can sympathize with that to some extent. I'm 28 and have completed Level V. I plan on staying in CAP until well past retirement age. What more is there to challenge me in professional development outside of ACSC and AWC for the next 40 or so years?

Getting master ratings in every single specialty track? 

[Skyray]

From Deputy Dog:
Getting master ratings in every single specialty track? 

Now that is a motivator that I had overlooked.  I have three or four Master ratings, but one that always evaded me was Stan/Eval.  I was Wing Safety Officer in a couple of wings, and it was mentioned to me a couple of times that Stan/Eval would give me more credibility.  Unfortunately I got dismembered before I got it, although I was steadily working toward it.

[Sgt. Savage]

Unfortunately I got dismembered.....

That is the single greatest thing I have ever seen on a forum. And I thought we wouldn't get along!

[Skyray]

Unfortunately I got dismembered.....

That is the single greatest thing I have ever seen on a forum. And I thought we wouldn't get along!

I am really a very nice guy, although I sometimes come on a wee bit monomaniacal.  I will try to subdue my passion about being dismembered.  Who knows, one of these days if they change the water in the big tank, I may be remembered.