Thoughts on a Commissioned Officer Corp?

[SarDragon]

I still haven't quite sorted this out, so let's use an example here.

How would you classify someone who:
Is within the current CAP and AF weight standards
Is retired enlisted military
Has a full beard

Inquiring minds await.

Oh, and which uniform would this member wear?

Still waiting.

[tdepp]

I still haven't quite sorted this out, so let's use an example here.

How would you classify someone who:
Is within the current CAP and AF weight standards
Is retired enlisted military
Has a full beard

Inquiring minds await.

Oh, and which uniform would this member wear?

Still waiting.

--Field uniform: Woodland camo blouse, BBDU trousers, OD nametape and organizational tape only says "Patrol", no rank above flight officer showing, American flag backwards optional, unit patch on left shoulder, CAP baseball cap, one pants leg bloused, the other cuffed
--Dress uniform: AF-Style coat with no insignia, name tag, rank, or ribbons, gray pants, white shirt, gray name tag, regimental stripe tie, no cover
--Polo shirt uniform: Blue polo shirt with round logo but no name or rank; plaid Bermuda shorts; blue web belt with black buckle, black flipflops, white golf visor for cover
--Flightsuit: Gray/blue striped Key coveralls or tan Carharts from farm supply store, no rank or insignia except plastic encased unit patch on left sleeve; flight cap w/o CAP badge, if pilot, plastic wings from Wal-Mart, er, I mean Vanguard, the exclusive provider of CAP plastic pilot wings.

As a "tweener" caste member, he'd have a half blue/half red dot on his forehead.

[Grumpy]

Yee Gads!  What's the average time for this subject to resurface?  Is it every 18 months we have to beat this thing around?

[Strick]

Iwould have to say...........negative ghost rider...........Sorry folks

[ZigZag911]

Believe it or not, there are some members who do not (in some cases cannot) meet USAF commissioning standards who fill essential roles in SAR, DR, CD and HLS missions.

A 'commissioned corps' is a divisive concept, not needed, and probably counter-productive.

[lordmonar]

Drop the word probably!

[Flying Pig]

......or, we could leave it the way it is.  Yeah, thats it.

With being a Sq.CC, (actually, my Deputy is the CC, but hes not very attractive) being a Mission Pilot, keeping up with the PD I want to do but dont have the time to do, trying to keep current on the reg changes and not to mention keeping you guys in check here on CAPTalk,  the last thing I have time for is becoming a "CAP commissioned officer."  I really dont see how it changes anything we do in CAP.  Besides, most of us would need age waivers for commissions anyway!!

Oh and one other thing.....those other services we all cite about having commissions, The NOAA, Public Health, lets not forget that their "officers" get paychecks.

[OldSalt]

Sheesh - tough crowd. Sorry I mentioned it. (ducking the flying tomatos and other garbage).

[AirAux]

Considering the requirements for "commissioning" and the responsibility that goes with a "commission" and the inherent liabilities so assumed, I would recommend that instead we move into the area of "warrants"..  From what I know of Army aviation and WO's in particular, I do believe that we come much closer to the high jinks and escapades and dare devilry, could care less attitude of most WO pilots... Why not have all of the fun, fly (or ground team, if you must) and not have the responsibilities that commissioning assumes??  We could all wear black stetson's and grow mustaches and fly cobra's..(Isn't this secretly what we all truly want anyways)??   I say, let's hear if for the Warrant Corps..  And I will gladly be first in line..

[Flying Pig]

Dont take it personally, but we beat this topic to death about once every 6 months.

[Eclipse]

This does not assist a single mission and causes additional problems we don't need.

[Flying Pig]

But then they will HAVE to respect us!!

[Cecil DP]

I disagree with the idea of two seperate entities within CAP. However the Adult members of the Canadian Air Cadet Corps are commissioned Limited Duty Officers, whose only duty is serving the cadets corps. That would be amenable. Keep in mind that they must meet all the standards of any other reserve officer.  Not that this will ever happen

[JoeTomasone]

Another can of worms that this opens would be the perception of the RM - would they be required to salute higher-ranking CAP Warrant/Commissioned officers?  I can see THAT argument turning ugly FAST. 

[Eclipse]

We don't need commissions.

We don't need warrants.

And we don't even have any way of getting them if we needed them, since without pay and job protection, most of our members couldn't take the 2-3 weeks off for "salutin' school" anyway.  And of those who could go, a lot would either not understand, or be interested in the responsibilities that would go along with the certificate.

What we need is top-down consistency of mission and purpose, along with a reboot of a lot of programs and probably about 10,000 uncomfortable conversations with people who don't understand the what and why of CAP, but continue to be impediments to progress, growth, and execution.

A lean mean cadre of 35,000 with renewed purpose and a clear understanding of "my way (i.e. The Top-Down Plan) or the highway" would do wonders for our internal spirit and external respect.

[davedove]

We could even consider Mafia rank titles:

Capo di tutti capi (Boss of all bosses)
Capo bastone (underboss)
Consigliere (counselor)
Caporegime (captain)
Sgarrista (soldier - 'made man')
Picciotto (associate)

Have we got an offer you can't refuse!

Of course, with this system, once you volunteer you are always a member (or else!!!).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

On many practical levels, it would not work.

I have semi-experience with this in that several years ago I applied for the NOAA Corps and wasn't accepted on medical grounds.  They have very stringent standards.

First of all, NOAA officers are truly commissioned officers in a uniformed service of the United States.  They are paid at Armed Forces officer rates, are subject to the UCMJ, and rate a salute from all junior ranked personnel (including us).  If you are a CAP Captain and you pass a NOAA Lieutenant Commander, you are obligated to salute and render a greeting.

They have to attend a four-month Academy at the Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, New York.  Following that, they spend three years sea duty aboard a NOAA vessel.

They get all the retirement benefits that an officer in the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and U.S. Public Health service does.

Not to disparage us, because we do what we do, and try to do it well, but it's light-years away from a young NOAA Ensign shivering his/her butt off pulling watch duty in the Arctic.

If I were to do any "shake-and-bake" of the CAP ranks (which would remain all-volunteer), I would re-introduce a true enlisted/NCO tier and Warrant Officers.

E-1 Airman Basic
E-2 Airman
E-3 Airman First Class
E-4 Senior Airman
E-5 Sergeant
E-6 Staff Sergeant
E-7 Flight Sergeant (Technical Sergeants aren't all "technical")
E-8 Master Sergeant

All insignia would be blue embroidered on grey background, USAF pattern.  This rank tier would be for 18-year-olds and up that are high school graduates with no prior service.  They would be specialists in one speciality track.

WO-1 Warrant Officer 1
CWO-2 Chief Warrant Officer 2
CWO-3 Chief Warrant Officer 3
CWO-4 Chief Warrant Officer 4
CWO-5 Chief Warrant Officer 5

Standard USAF warrant officer insignia (still authorised, but not in use), like CAP used to have.
For 21+ with no prior service and at least an associate's degree.  Cadets achieving Spaatz at 18 come in at CWO-2.

O-1 Second Lieutenant
O-2 First Lieutenant
O-3 Captain
O-4 Major
O-5 Lieutenant Colonel
O-6 Colonel (reserved for Wing Commanders and National staff officers)
O-7 Brigadier General (reserved for Region Commanders and Deputy National CC)
O-8 Major General (National Commander)

Direct commissions available for the following:
Pilots (FAA and/or military certified)
Lawyers, Attorneys, Barristers and Solicitors
Doctors (MD, DO)
Physician Assistants
Nurse Practitioners
Dentists (DDS)
Nurses (RN)
Chaplains
Mental Health clinicians with at least an M.S.W.

Prior service military with at least E-5 can apply for the officer ranks, maximum of First Lieutenant.  Former military officers (active, reserve, Guard, State Defence Forces) would come in at their last-held rank.

OK, it's not perfect, and it wouldn't happen, but it's just a thought.

We would also be much less top-heavy with officers.

[AirAux]

Eclipse, do you really mean to be mean to the fat and fuzzies??  All of this talk about lean and mean.. Can't we have it pleasantly plump and gruff???  I mean, come on..  We have some really great leaders and members that will never see their feet again.. and some of it is due to medical conditions, so lets not be so harsh..   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Another can of worms that this opens would be the perception of the RM - would they be required to salute higher-ranking CAP Warrant/Commissioned officers?  I can see THAT argument turning ugly FAST.

No.  The current policy would remain in place, where they are not required to salute, but can do so voluntarily.

[Eclipse]

Eclipse, do you really mean to be mean to the fat and fuzzies??  All of this talk about lean and mean.. Can't we have it pleasantly plump and gruff???  I mean, come on..  We have some really great leaders and members that will never see their feet again.. and some of it is due to medical conditions, so lets not be so harsh..

Um, yeah...not remotely what I meant or was referring to...