So I received the newer card. What is up with this? The plastic is about as thin as you can get. My library cards (both) are heavier duty plastic. Same with my Starbucks card (which was free...).
As it came in the mail, it is already creased and I'm trying to straighten/flatten it/bend it back into place.
I'm really happy that they fixed the quality of the patch image on it, but the quality of the card itself isn't good anymore. I'm also very happy that the front is now printed to the edge instead of that bad cut-off of the gray.
A friend said he wrote to national a couple months ago about these when he received his, but didn't get a reply. I wonder if anyone has asked them for a more durable plastic card and got a response.
It also has a 3-digit number next to the bar code. Does anyone know what that is for?
My photo on there is pixelated but it is pretty bad in e-Services due to whatever compression they have going on. I have to submit a new one. Does anyone know if this issue of the serious pixelation has been fixed, in e-Services and/or on the card printing? I don't want my ID card photo to look like this because it looks very unprofessional.
are cadets even allowed to have their picture on theirs yet?
and i have yet to even receve my new ID card and i renewed( over the internet) 3 weeks ago....
Actually.. it looks as if it is coronized paper... I won't try it.. but I bet it can be ripped in half easily...
Quote from: JC004 on August 29, 2011, 02:19:56 PM
It also has a 3-digit number next to the bar code. Does anyone know what that is for?
Mine has a 4 digit number.
Got mine a week ago, then got a second one two days later. NHQ feeling generous, I guess. The new card screams "cheesy". The old photo ID was fairly substantial. The new one is not something I really want to hand to anyone checking IDs. Que sera sera.
Quote from: shlebz on August 29, 2011, 06:19:51 PM
are cadets even allowed to have their picture on theirs yet?
Actually, yes. But it costs us 4 dollars to have the photo printed on, haha!
I still just wish ... we could have a decent looking, professional appearing ID card. Not one that was supplied by the cheapest vendor outsourced to a remote location.
We have a problem of people not knowing who we are, and we present a card that now feels hokey and flimsy.
It doesn't need to look like the Air Force's card. Though that doesn't seem to stop the CGA from having something that at least gives a decent professional appearance. The whole photo submission system they have in place and the software they use. Ugh! Maybe it's part of the CMS. It's as if it's one of these image crunchers for ancient cellular data networks, or like the AOL proxy back in the dialup at 2400 baud era and what AOL would do to photos as to not send so much data to the customer.
..and when the "temporary ID" that you could print off eServices actually LOOKED like an ID card. now it's a poorly formed HTML table with cheesy border on it.
Die SiteViz! Die! even if it's not. Maybe that needs to get added to the KTTT logo.
One thing at a time..
Spent Saturday morning checking people into the wing eval. I noticed quite a few differences in the way the cards looked. It wasn't anything major but there were about three different formats for membership expiration dates.
Mine looks pretty good. It is just as thick as my previous non-picture cards. The text, logo, and picture are all sharp.
Quote from: researchdoc on August 29, 2011, 06:35:31 PM
Actually.. it looks as if it is coronized paper... I won't try it.. but I bet it can be ripped in half easily...
I was going to try ripping this one, actually, once the one with Captain comes. It's already freaking creased and I just got it.
Quote from: AirDX on August 29, 2011, 07:00:54 PM
...
The new card screams "cheesy". The old photo ID was fairly substantial. The new one is not something I really want to hand to anyone checking IDs. Que sera sera.
I feel exactly the same way.
OK, here's the thing...I'm not a good designer. I'm a technical person. We should have some people take a stab at designing a really professional-looking card to be
printed on real plastic and submit it for approval. Anyone who would be good on such a thing?
I saw an article on redesigned boarding passes for airlines. It was great. I liked them a lot but I wouldn't have been able to design something like that from scratch. Just not my thing. Now if we have someone who COULD...we should.
Just standardize the date format/font and make it a little bigger so it's easier and quicker to check validity when your checking people in for a mission.
How is this for an ID Card?
(http://i52.tinypic.com/xkq8mf.jpg)
Just a few minutes in Photoshop :P
Quote from: SarDragon on August 29, 2011, 08:54:31 PM
Mine looks pretty good. It is just as thick as my previous non-picture cards. The text, logo, and picture are all sharp.
Not in my case. Thin, like a laminated piece of paper, or a slick business card. Either way. Just as JC004 described, is my card.
Quote from: DakRadz on August 30, 2011, 03:42:15 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 29, 2011, 08:54:31 PM
Mine looks pretty good. It is just as thick as my previous non-picture cards. The text, logo, and picture are all sharp.
Not in my case. Thin, like a laminated piece of paper, or a slick business card. Either way. Just as JC004 described, is my card.
It looks like he got a counterfeit card. Sometimes counterfeits are so good that they exceed the quality of the real thing...
I wonder what would happen... if somebody started a service providing "fake" CAP ID cards to members... on the normal plastic credit cards, with a better layout. lol
Quote from: whatevah on August 31, 2011, 04:29:29 AM
I wonder what would happen... if somebody started a service providing "fake" CAP ID cards to members... on the normal plastic credit cards, with a better layout. lol
What is the point of counterfeit cards?
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 31, 2011, 04:40:12 AM
What is the point of counterfeit cards?
I prefer "improved" rather than "counterfeit" ;D
Quote from: whatevah on August 31, 2011, 04:41:27 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 31, 2011, 04:40:12 AM
What is the point of counterfeit cards?
I prefer "improved" rather than "counterfeit" ;D
Still, is there a purpose?
If it was to just make better cards, you'd need to send yours in, to have the barcode dublicated...
Anyway, I got a new card, and it is stiff as a board... I even forgot it in my bdu pocket and ironed it, still straight.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 31, 2011, 04:45:04 AM
you'd need to send yours in, to have the barcode dublicated...
Why? Barcodes are standard. My shiny new Droid says that the barcode on mine is my ID number.
Quote from: davidsinn on August 31, 2011, 04:51:14 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 31, 2011, 04:45:04 AM
you'd need to send yours in, to have the barcode dublicated...
Why? Barcodes are standard. My shiny new Droid says that the barcode on mine is my ID number.
Mm, for some reason I thought they were more unique. My bad.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 31, 2011, 04:55:43 AM
Quote from: davidsinn on August 31, 2011, 04:51:14 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 31, 2011, 04:45:04 AM
you'd need to send yours in, to have the barcode dublicated...
Why? Barcodes are standard. My shiny new Droid says that the barcode on mine is my ID number.
Mm, for some reason I thought they were more unique. My bad.
Nope. In fact I once installed a barcode font for work to replicate a government shipping tag because I was updating the drawings to be digital. You could google some and install them and print out anything you wanted in barcode.
LOL.. we had a piece of work ex-group commander get thrown in the brig at a Navy installation for using a 'fake' CAP ID card.
The best part about the whole thing? He could have used other ID to get on that base that night. That no one would have questioned in the slightest, but he had to be a "Captain" instead..
He got what he deserved, and CAP got rid of baggage. That was a good thing.
Quote from: a2capt on August 31, 2011, 03:24:09 PM
LOL.. we had a piece of work ex-group commander get thrown in the brig at a Navy installation for using a 'fake' CAP ID card.
The best part about the whole thing? He could have used other ID to get on that base that night. That no one would have questioned in the slightest, but he had to be a "Captain" instead..
He got what he deserved, and CAP got rid of baggage. That was a good thing.
Did he make up a CAP ID card or did he use an issued one? Whenever I try to get on a base I just automatically pull out my CAP ID and my driver's license and hand them both over at once.
In the earlier part of last decade.. he made up his own kind of CAP ID, in the days of the only picture option was that laminated one, signed by your "unit commander", and it stated that it's valid only when presented with a valid CAP ID card from NHQ. He didn't like it, and did just what is recommended above, and presented that. Apparently the sentries at a rather high profile Navy installation that at the time hosted our group HQ, thought it was rather cheesy and "why are you trying to get on base at 3AM with that??" and threw him in the brig.
The straw that broke the back of a rather controversial CAP 'career' at that, he was relieved and gone after that.
Quote from: a2capt on August 31, 2011, 05:42:26 PM
In the earlier part of last decade.. he made up his own kind of CAP ID, in the days of the only picture option was that laminated one, signed by your "unit commander", and it stated that it's valid only when presented with a valid CAP ID card from NHQ. He didn't like it, and did just what is recommended above, and presented that. Apparently the sentries at a rather high profile Navy installation that at the time hosted our group HQ, thought it was rather cheesy and "why are you trying to get on base at 3AM with that??" and threw him in the brig.
The straw that broke the back of a rather controversial CAP 'career' at that, he was relieved and gone after that.
Why WAS he?
I knew the guy. He had good intentions, but had problems with good judgement. Sadly, he failed to recognize his limitations in that area, and it reached up and bit him in the butt. Hard.
As for being relieved, I can't point to a specific reg, but let's just say that he had lost the confidence, of his commander, in his ability to fulfill his duties as a group commander. He "screwed the pooch."
Quote from: a2capt on August 31, 2011, 05:42:26 PM
In the earlier part of last decade.. he made up his own kind of CAP ID, in the days of the only picture option was that laminated one, signed by your "unit commander", and it stated that it's valid only when presented with a valid CAP ID card from NHQ. He didn't like it, and did just what is recommended above, and presented that. Apparently the sentries at a rather high profile Navy installation that at the time hosted our group HQ, thought it was rather cheesy and "why are you trying to get on base at 3AM with that??" and threw him in the brig.
The straw that broke the back of a rather controversial CAP 'career' at that, he was relieved and gone after that.
That was dumb.
There are actually two things suggested above. One is design a new one for submission to become the new ID card. The other is to duplicate the current one but on much better quality plastic.
Got my renewal one today.
Printing quality and clarity is much better. The thickness is exactly the same as my library card.
Photo was missing. NHQ said I was the second call on that today and they were having an "issue" - no ETA on the fix.
LOL.. They sure do seem to be having quite a hell of a time with ID cards for the past several years in one way or another. I mean, how hard is it?
I'm not clear on the details, but I really liked the hard PVC plastic card (the one with the hologram) that was issued for a short period of time (the $5) one, it felt good like a real card and my picture was decent.
Apparently, CAP switched vendors or went back to inhouse processing (I don't know the details) but the new ID card (the current one without the hologram) appears to be on the same paper stock as the old CAP Membership card (library card, I think it's Telsin), and my picture looks like the pixels from super mario brothers...
I'm not too thrilled with the new ones either. The old ones we had to pay for were much nicer and better quality. My pic looks terrible on mine yet is perfect in eServices. I've seen other members of my unit and their pic is good. It's odd since I'm the one who took them and uploaded them all. Something clearly not right in the process. The wording on the back of mine is also not consistent with what others are getting. I got mine in May '11 and other at the same time have different wording. No idea why. And for cadets not getting their pic on... NHQ says not until they turn 18 but one of my 17 yr old cadets who just renewed had his pic on his. So who knows... I renew next month so I'm looking forward to see the quality of the next revision.
I could really care less.
My Super Cuts "frequent buyer card" is just a business card that they stamp. I pull that out of my wallet far more than I do my CAPID. It seems to last a year without any issues.
I'm failing to understand why people need a 1/4th inch thick piece of plastic that says they are a member of CAP. Y'all act like you use it as your primary ID, whipping it out at restaurants for age verification, handing to the police when you get pulled over, showing it at nightclubs, casino entrances, etc.
My unit meets on a military base, so if I didn't have another ID the most I'd have to pull it out is MAYBE 60 times a year. Even then, they ask for a real identification to go with it, so what is the point?
The new card seems to be adequate for its' intended usage. I don't need any more thick plastic cards in my wallet so the thin design is great. :clap: :angel:
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 23, 2011, 10:44:17 PM
The new card seems to be adequate for its' intended usage. I don't need any more thick plastic cards in my wallet so the thin design is great. :clap: :angel:
RM
Well that solves it. Durability or not causing a security guard or something to be concerned isn't an issue. RM has more space in his wallet now and he doesn't need a CAP ID card for the gate anyway.
I still have to order a new one to replace the one that arrived creased. Or make my own nice one? >:D
It's not about having "a thick card", it's about having something that doesn't look or feel like I made it in the back room. A first impression on many people, you fork over the ID card and they get this thing thats got a crummy looking artifact-laiden photo on it.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 23, 2011, 10:44:17 PM
The new card seems to be adequate for its' intended usage. I don't need any more thick plastic cards in my wallet so the thin design is great. :clap: :angel:
RM
Congrats, RM!
You posted a positive comment. :)
I just got mine. It's plastic, not as thick as a credit card, and just a hair less stiff than my driver's license. It certainly doesn't seem flimsy, AND my photo looks just fine. Maybe I got a new batch?
idk. Would it hold a crease from mailing? Mine did. That's what we started with here.
Got my replacement, now it has a photo. Color and accuracy is better than the old one, the photo has just a hair of pixelation, more so than before, but acceptable, and the scaling is a little wider than tall (only noticeable if you hold them side-by-side).
Thinner than before, but no real issue in my ID holder, etc. To JC004, if you tried you could certainly put a crease in it from mailing, but mine
was fine.
It's no smartcard, but it does the job.
I don't think I have ever used my CAP card for anything. I just sign in with my number at events. I've never been on a base (for CAP business), nor is there one anywhere nearby. Some day some one will actually ask to see it. ;)
Quote from: Eclipse on October 11, 2011, 07:58:57 PM
Got my replacement, now it has a photo. Color and accuracy is better than the old one, the photo has just a hair of pixelation, more so than before, but acceptable, and the scaling is a little wider than tall (only noticeable if you hold them side-by-side).
Thinner than before, but no real issue in my ID holder, etc. To JC004, if you tried you could certainly put a crease in it from mailing, but mine
was fine.
It's no smartcard, but it does the job.
My post office doesn't have to TRY to destroy anything. It's a normal part of their work. You should see what they did to a box I mailed myself from Yosemite (which also took almost a month to arrive Priority Mail).
Quote from: jimmydeanno on September 23, 2011, 10:30:01 PM
My Super Cuts "frequent buyer card" is just a business card that they stamp. I pull that out of my wallet far more than I do my CAPID. It seems to last a year without any issues.
I think I've pulled my CAP ID card out an average of twice a year in 23 years.
Remember the old "optional" photo IDs from years back? Blue things that you had to type on and glue a passport photo to, then laminate it. That thing practically looked official, moreso than any other ID at the time, or even today.
Good old Form 19!
It looked fairly close to the military ID's of the era.
Quote from: Stonewall on October 12, 2011, 07:04:30 PM
I think I've pulled my CAP ID card out an average of twice a year in 23 years.
Not quite the same time frame but the average sounds right. Until Wing HQ moved "behind the wire" at an ANG base.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 12, 2011, 07:21:21 PM
Good old Form 19!
It looked fairly close to the military ID's of the era.
Got curious, got home and found it. Signed by former DCWG CC Costello Robinson...
Notice the stupid high n' tight haircut and the fact that I'm wearing my Army Class B uniform with black jacket. I think the picture came from when I got my Army ID card made and they gave me the extra pictures.
(http://www.box.net/shared/static/rq7ytp3soea7mr7u14i3.jpg)
Well, since we're going for olde goofy pix:
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/CAPF19_f.jpg)
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/CAPF19_r.jpg)
I just got my new one in the mail. It looks pretty darn decent, compared to the stack of old ones I've got. I'm curious though as to why there's a white box surounding the barcode... Can't that be printed in the same manner as everything else on the card?
Actually, bar codes tend to be pretty persnickety about white (or at least high-contrast) backgrounds
Funny thing is the CAPF19 was not the Membership card, but a picture ID card that was NOT VALID WITHOUT CURRENT MEMBERSHIP CARD ha.
Took quite a while to combine the picture ID with the membership card itself in the current form, though cadets are not required to have photos (?) boggles the mind.
Quote from: whatevah on August 31, 2011, 04:29:29 AM
I wonder what would happen... if somebody started a service providing "fake" CAP ID cards to members... on the normal plastic credit cards, with a better layout. lol
18 USC § 701. Official badges, identification cards, other insignia
Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on October 25, 2011, 02:11:31 AM
Quote from: whatevah on August 31, 2011, 04:29:29 AM
I wonder what would happen... if somebody started a service providing "fake" CAP ID cards to members... on the normal plastic credit cards, with a better layout. lol
18 USC § 701. Official badges, identification cards, other insignia
Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Not all statutes are enforced. >:D
Eclipse:"Not all statutes are enforced."
Nothing like an inane response... What, no NCO dig?
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on October 25, 2011, 03:04:39 AM
Eclipse:"Not all statutes are enforced."
Nothing like an inane response... What, no NCO dig?
Giving eclipse credit for someone else' post? :)
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on October 25, 2011, 02:16:55 AM
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on October 25, 2011, 02:11:31 AM
Quote from: whatevah on August 31, 2011, 04:29:29 AM
I wonder what would happen... if somebody started a service providing "fake" CAP ID cards to members... on the normal plastic credit cards, with a better layout. lol
18 USC § 701. Official badges, identification cards, other insignia
Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Not all statutes are enforced. >:D
You wanna be the one who tests that theory with your freedom? >:D
Quote from: PHall on October 25, 2011, 03:08:55 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on October 25, 2011, 02:16:55 AM
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on October 25, 2011, 02:11:31 AM
Quote from: whatevah on August 31, 2011, 04:29:29 AM
I wonder what would happen... if somebody started a service providing "fake" CAP ID cards to members... on the normal plastic credit cards, with a better layout. lol
18 USC § 701. Official badges, identification cards, other insignia
Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Not all statutes are enforced. >:D
You wanna be the one who tests that theory with your freedom? >:D
lol, Adultery is a crime in most states. ???
Ask the Obama administration if all laws are enforced. >:D
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on October 25, 2011, 03:38:30 AM
Ask the Obama administration if all laws are enforced. >:D
Or any Administration for that matter.
Quote from: john_Bowers on October 25, 2011, 03:08:35 AM
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on October 25, 2011, 03:04:39 AM
Eclipse:"Not all statutes are enforced."
Nothing like an inane response... What, no NCO dig?
Giving eclipse credit for someone else' post? :)
Well, he got the initial 'E' right. ;)
My bad, sorry Eclipse!
But... Only a real plunker would make a phony ID card if they wanted to stay in the CAP. At the least, you would get booted I suspect if you were caught. And, if you use the phony ID card even more laws and regs violated.
Just got my new cards.....ordered extra ones too. And if they got any thinner I could get a severe paper cut taking it out of my wallet. I also noticed that one of them is a different color than the other. Two are a greenish color and the other is more of a blue.
Also...When did we change the "Mission Statement"? The card that expires next month reads..."Civil Air Patrol, America's Air Force Auxiliary, bulding the Nation's finest force of citizen volunteers...Performing missions for America."
The new card reads..."Supporting America's communities with emergency response, diverse aviation and ground services, youth development, and promotion of air,space and cyber power."
The "Mission Statement" change is like TTT. They can't stick with something consistant, and prefer dilution over a solid footing. Too bad. I wish they'd put a moratorium on these changes, too. Just leave it alone until a proper style guide and corporate decided Mission Statement is agreed on.
Air Force Auxiliary - or Not.
Sounds like my church's mission statement. It went from 10 words with a clear meaning, then 19 words to "clarify" those words, and is now 32 words that don't mean a darn thing. They just couldn't leave well enough alone.
Quote from: EMT-83 on October 26, 2011, 07:35:31 PM
Sounds like my church's mission statement. It went from 10 words with a clear meaning, then 19 words to "clarify" those words, and is now 32 words that don't mean a darn thing. They just couldn't leave well enough alone.
Don't feel bad. That's a common struggle we have in the non-profit sector.
The whole branding thing is maddening. I still cannot wrap my head around why those responsible can't see how it compares to organizations that are serious about branding and marketing. It should be that they end up thinking: "Hmm...these 'style guide' things - everyone has one but us. Maybe we should too. I should look it up on the Google and see why we'd want something like this."
Has the really thin plastic been replaced or is it still the crap thinner plastic?
I'm happy with the new card. Already have so many CAP cards that they have to be carried in their own little CAP wallet so a thinner card is fine by me.
A little concerned about the statement a while back about three different card styles being in use. Hopefully we'll pick a style and stick with it long enough for everyone to be the same.
And way to communicate our "mission" to the troops....find out about it on your new id. However, being more specific than "missions for America" is good. Not entirely sure what "aviation and ground services" we provide. Sounds like we pump gas at the FBO.
Can someone tell me why we need a " feel good "mission statement on the back in the first place ?
1) The statement MIGHT be good for recruiting.
2) Any recruiting I do will NOT involve me displaying how crappy the ID card is.
2.5) Why do we have " Senior Member " on our ID cards if our rank and picture are both displayed ?
3) What changed 10 (or so) years ago that necessitated doing away with the old language " Please help the bearer of this card reach his duty station etcetera etcetera... "
I don't need the card to look like a CAC but still, I DID get a " paper" cut taking the new ID out of it's envelope the other week.
Because the card needs to pass the low light condition of being confused for anything that might resemble an ID card, that could be construed to actually be anything official. Helping someone get to their duty station in a time of need would make it sound like it's..
I just hope the US Air Force Auxiliary doesn't go off there like everything else seems to have. I can see why they took of the Charter Number, OTOH.. I can't see why they did it. Since the card is no good for longer than a year, at least it would be nice to have some visual indicator of what area someone might be from, when the card is presented for CAP uses.
Oh well. Could be worse. It could have a random string of garbage on it someplace because they got the management from system from the lowest bidder and they say that it's necessary.
Anyone who has eServices access can type in the first five digits of the CAPID in Member Search, and find out what unit someone is in.
If you do all six, and the person isn't in your unit, it will gag. Using only the first five will give you a list of the current members with that combination of digits in their CAPID.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on November 02, 2011, 11:38:00 PM
Can someone tell me why we need a " feel good "mission statement on the back in the first place ?
1) The statement MIGHT be good for recruiting.
2) Any recruiting I do will NOT involve me displaying how crappy the ID card is.
2.5) Why do we have " Senior Member " on our ID cards if our rank and picture are both displayed ?
3) What changed 10 (or so) years ago that necessitated doing away with the old language " Please help the bearer of this card reach his duty station etcetera etcetera... "
I don't need the card to look like a CAC but still, I DID get a " paper" cut taking the new ID out of it's envelope the other week.
+ 1
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on November 02, 2011, 11:38:00 PM
Can someone tell me why we need a " feel good "mission statement on the back in the first place ?
1) The statement MIGHT be good for recruiting.
2) Any recruiting I do will NOT involve me displaying how crappy the ID card is.
2.5) Why do we have " Senior Member " on our ID cards if our rank and picture are both displayed ?
3) What changed 10 (or so) years ago that necessitated doing away with the old language " Please help the bearer of this card reach his duty station etcetera etcetera... "
I don't need the card to look like a CAC but still, I DID get a " paper" cut taking the new ID out of it's envelope the other week.
1. Every organization has some sort of mission statement. These are typical vaque "feel good" statements.
2. Any recruiting I do does involve the ID card UNLESS I am required to display an organizational ID at an event.
2.5. Membership category. Senior Member/Cadet/Patron/Sponsor
3. Aux on/Aux off.
Did you file the appropriate paperwork or inconvience the correct electrons?
Quote from: SarDragon on November 03, 2011, 06:43:54 AM
Anyone who has eServices access can type in the first five digits of the CAPID in Member Search, and find out what unit someone is in.
If you do all six, and the person isn't in your unit, it will gag. Using only the first five will give you a list of the current members with that combination of digits in their CAPID.
That is a great tip. :clap: :clap:
Quote from: arajca on November 03, 2011, 01:36:06 PM
2. Any recruiting I do does involve the ID card UNLESS I am required to display an organizational ID at an event.
What are you doing with an ID card at a recruiting event?
Quote from: Eclipse on November 03, 2011, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: arajca on November 03, 2011, 01:36:06 PM
2. Any recruiting I do does involve the ID card UNLESS I am required to display an organizational ID at an event.
What are you doing with an ID card at a recruiting event?
a. Anytime I'm in uniform, I have it with me.
b. Occasionally, at a back-to-school night or similar function, the organizers want the 'vendors' to have an organizational ID visible.
^ Fair enough, but you're not showing the back to anyone...
FWIW, I renewed my base decals the other day, slid my new-style ID card under the window with all the other docs, and
the only response I got was updated numbers and "have a nice day". We're probably more sensitive to this than
anyone outside will ever be.
In fact, I can't think of a single time in recent memory anyone has ever handled my ID card to know it is thinner than
"other" - I show it and put it away in a big pack of other mission cards in an arm-band holster. When I ride my bike
on base it's in a vest holder that comes off quick with velcro and slaps back on.
Since my ID card lives in an ID holder next to my 101 I really don't care all that much how thick the plastic is. The only time it ever comes out is when a gate guard gets anal (Great Lakes NTC made me take it out last time I was there, but the ANG base the local squadron meets on never even bothers).
I always keep my CAP stuff in a special wallet that I carry only whilst on CAP "duties", just like I only carry my LEO creds in a separate case.
I rarely wear a uniform as I find it off putting as I do my job.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 03, 2011, 03:17:18 PM
In fact, I can't think of a single time in recent memory anyone has ever handled my ID card to know it is thinner than
"other" - I show it and put it away in a big pack of other mission cards in an arm-band holster. When I ride my bike
on base it's in a vest holder that comes off quick with velcro and slaps back on.
Do you go on to a Military facility where they do not actually handle your ID card? Gate Security is supposed to not only handle but inspect both sides of whatever kind if ID is presented.
Quote from: SARDOC on November 04, 2011, 02:48:56 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 03, 2011, 03:17:18 PM
In fact, I can't think of a single time in recent memory anyone has ever handled my ID card to know it is thinner than
"other" - I show it and put it away in a big pack of other mission cards in an arm-band holster. When I ride my bike
on base it's in a vest holder that comes off quick with velcro and slaps back on.
Do you go on to a Military facility where they do not actually handle your ID card? Gate Security is supposed to not only handle but inspect both sides of whatever kind if ID is presented.
PM Sent.
Quote from: SARDOC on November 04, 2011, 02:48:56 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 03, 2011, 03:17:18 PM
In fact, I can't think of a single time in recent memory anyone has ever handled my ID card to know it is thinner than
"other" - I show it and put it away in a big pack of other mission cards in an arm-band holster. When I ride my bike
on base it's in a vest holder that comes off quick with velcro and slaps back on.
Do you go on to a Military facility where they do not actually handle your ID card? Gate Security is supposed to not only handle but inspect both sides of whatever kind if ID is presented.
I do exactly that on several installations here. One place doesn't even ask for ID much of the time. They accept my base sticker and wave me through.
I'm going to be honest... I skipped most of the posts in this thread and just wanted to give my opinion.
I'm medically dqed from joining the armed forces due to a knee injury but thankfully it doesn't impact any of my CAP functions. Do I wish the membership card was more like the CAC? Definitely
But, I take extreme pride that it still says "United States Air Force Auxiliary"
Flimsy as it might be...I'm just happy to do what I can to serve.
Quote from: etc on November 18, 2011, 08:28:15 AM
I'm medically dqed from joining the armed forces due to a knee injury but thankfully it doesn't impact any of my CAP functions. Do I wish the membership card was more like the CAC? Definitely
But, I take extreme pride that it still says "United States Air Force Auxiliary"
Flimsy as it might be...I'm just happy to do what I can to serve.
Ditto.
I don't see the correlation between being medically DQ'd from serving and the design of the membership card. In every instance the reasoning I come up with is something not very nice, so I won't share it.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 18, 2011, 03:59:18 PM
I don't see the correlation between being medically DQ'd from serving and the design of the membership card. In every instance the reasoning I come up with is something not very nice, so I won't share it.
I totally get it. I wasn't able to serve in the RM either. The fact that Civil Air Patrol has made a way for me to serve, albiet in a different, limited way, is something I cherish. Like ETC, I'm proud that the cards says "United States Air Force Auxiliary" and has a photo of me in uniform. It's another bit of symbolism for me that I'm able to serve my country. Every time I wear my uniform,
or show someone my ID card, I stand a little taller.
I'm medically DQ'd as well, and I have an extreme pride in my service to CAP. However, the only thing that I can come up with about a desire to have our ID cards look like CACs is a hope that there will be some confusion as to what that person's status really is. Maybe I'm being pessimistic.
I served and had a CAC card...hardly ever used it, other than log into my computer and have the rent-a-policeman at the gate stare at it for 2.5 seconds and ask me how my day was...
I want our ID cards to look NOTHING like a CAC card. I want them to look JUST like OUR ID cards...but a little thicker, so I wont worry about snapping it in half if my wallet bends to much...
As a point of clarification, are the 'new' photo ID cards being mentioned any different from those of around a year (+/-) ago-- or are these the cards being discussed? I wasn't sure if there has been an additional update since the last one I received.
From some of the comments, I'm almost cringing at the thought that it seems to be a plastic-coated piece of paper (reminds me of the old blue/white cards) and not something appearing like a legitimate ID.
Having something that looks legitimate and not like a self-created 'ID' or library card (yielding some curious/confused looks at the gate on base) is what prompted me to get the Photo ID version-- which I believe is required now anyway.
So... will my new photo ID card from around a year ago be any different from my next card?
Quote from: DBlair on November 18, 2011, 08:42:01 PM
As a point of clarification, are the 'new' photo ID cards being mentioned any different from those of around a year (+/-) ago-- or are these the cards being discussed? I wasn't sure if there has been an additional update since the last one I received.
From some of the comments, I'm almost cringing at the thought that it seems to be a plastic-coated piece of paper (reminds me of the old blue/white cards) and not something appearing like a legitimate ID.
Having something that looks legitimate and not like a self-created 'ID' or library card (yielding some curious/confused looks at the gate on base) is what prompted me to get the Photo ID version-- which I believe is required now anyway.
So... will my new photo ID card from around a year ago be any different from my next card?
Comparing my old ones to this new one, yes it will be different, in that it will be very thin. If I wanted to, I could snap it in half without really any force at all. Like my post above, I really do worry about it breaking or bending in half sometimes. I don't understand what prompted CAP to go to a thinner and flimsier ID card, but we did.
As for looks of the card, they are the same, but it does feel like a home made ID card now.
You folks speak of snapping as card in half. I have never seem one brittle enough to actually break into two pieces. I have noticed a difference in thickness, and a corresponding difference in flexibility, but that doesn't seem to be a big deal. The old plastic cards were similarly flexible, and not prone to 'breakage' in that manner.
We don't have to pre-heat our engine blocks... or worry about keys breaking off in doors.
Agreed. But the card is laminated, with what appears to be two different types of plastic. FWIW, I used to use the old phone number cards that came with the renewal notice as an ice scraper on cold mornings, and never had any problems with it.
I think y'all are just pissin' and moanin' just to be pissin' and moanin'.
I don't see why we can't just get military ID cards from the AF. They have them for dependents and civilian contractors on base already. Are we less trustworthy then civilian contractors who man the Burger King on base? Having an "official" military ID card would certainly lend to our credibility and also help base access issues. They are currently called the "Common Access Card".
The Common Access Card (CAC) is a United States Department of Defense (DoD) smart card issued as standard identification for active-duty military personnel, reserve personnel, civilian employees, other non-DoD government employees, state employees of the National Guard, and eligible contractor personnel.
Currently they are issued to:
Active-duty armed forces
Reservists
National Guard members
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
United States Public Health Service
Emergency-Essential Employees
Contingency Contractor Employees
Deployed Overseas Civilians
Non-Combatant Personnel
DoD/Uniformed Service Civilians residing on military installation in CONUS, Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico, or Guam
DoD/Uniformed Service Civilians or Contracted Civilian residing in a foreign country for at least 365 days
Presidential Appointees approved by the United States Senate
DoD Civilian employees, and United States Military veterans with a Veterans Affairs Disability rating of 100% P&T
Eligible Contractor Employees
Non-DoD/other government and state employees of the National Guard
a) CAC are more expensive.
b) Dependant and retiree ID cards are NOT CAC's...they are the same old cards they have been using for 10-15 years now.
c) A CAC will not give us credibility....doing our job well and following the regulations will.
d) There is NOTHING wrong with the cards we got now.
Quote from: lordmonar on December 02, 2011, 08:52:10 PM
d) There is NOTHING wrong with the cards we got now.
I have to agree - by a long shot, the vast majority of the membership never interact with the military, or ever enter a military facility or base, certainly not on a regular enough basis that they need a CAC. Those who do are able to make things work as things are today (albeit with the occasional
less than smooth process). A good working relationship with the SD helps here.
Some of the branches are moving to a new system next year which will likely issue localized credentials to those who need them, which would certainly not be everyone in a respective wing.
Quote from: lordmonar on December 02, 2011, 08:52:10 PM
a) CAC are more expensive.
b) Dependant and retiree ID cards are NOT CAC's...they are the same old cards they have been using for 10-15 years now.
c) A CAC will not give us credibility....doing our job well and following the regulations will.
d) There is NOTHING wrong with the cards we got now.
And that's your opinion but certainly doesn't invalidate my suggestion that we have a centralized access card recognized by DoD. Since I access numerous bases in CA throughout the year, I was stating my opinion. Each base is different and depending on who is at the gate, you may not get on. For members who already access the base each week for regular squadron meetings, it may be more simplified than those of us who come from non-base squadrons.
Doing our job well and following regulations means nothing to a gate security officer. All they care about is your ID and purpose. As a former USAF SP who worked gate I can testify to this effect. If I'm looking for CAC or military ID cards, I don't care too much about how they follow regulations. The base commander would have final determination on who can gain access to the base and when/where they can go. Just as it is now, someone with CIV, etc on their ID won't be allowed access to secure areas unless they have specific access to that area. The same would apply to us. We try to use our ID to get into the commissary, MWR or other areas with CIV, we most likely won't get in.
FWIW - Back in the 80's I just showed my CAP ID and drivers license and POOF I got on without trouble. I even went so far as to get a DoD sticker on my car when I was a cadet to get on faster. It was pass & id's suggestion and made it even easier. The sticker I received was green for civilian btw and CAP had explicit permission to get them according to DoD regs.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 02, 2011, 09:04:52 PM
Some of the branches are moving to a new system next year which will likely issue localized credentials to those who need them, which would certainly not be everyone in a respective wing.
I like that a lot...
We do have a centralised access card recognised by the DoD. If there is a specific problem with individual bases or individual guards who don't know about it.....getting a new more expensive card is not the answer.
Get with your wing and state SD and get the bases/cops educated.
The CONS to going to a CAC are that:
a) Number of people quiting each year....squadrons would have to exert much more effort to insure all those cards are accounted for.
b) The cards being too much like "real" base access credentials raises the very real possiblity that CAP could be used by possible advasaries for the simple access to the credentials.
c) COST, COST, COST...the cads themselves are expensive, the equipment to make them are expensive.
d) Time....getting the cards made would take much longer.
e) There is no need for more CAC style card.
Perhaps an option where CAP members could apply for one much like I had to go to pass & id to get my sticker. This would allow those who do have business on base to get on easier where other just won't need it and not request them. I was thinking more along the lines for seniors anyhow who have a much better annual retention rate. Anything other than the library card POS we have now. The photo ID we offered previously that you paid for was much better quality and lended more towards acceptance as a genuine ID card. It had a hologram on the front and was thick like an ID would be expected to be. Again, all my opinion based on my experiences over the past several years with numerous bases in the CA wing.
Well, I'm at Nellis and we have zero problems getting on base.
I think a better option would be to just make sure all the bases you work with know what our cards look like....in stead of comming up with a new card and new proceedures to get one.
Even smaller than the number of members who need bases access is those that need carte blanche access across a wing. Heck, my
wing only has two bases to start with, and I only have legit need for one.
If you need it, it can be managed, and if you don't, you don't. And we're, of course, not just talking USAF bases, which for some bizarre reason
tend to be less benevolent towards CAP access then other services.
As to the old card, a generic hologram that you can peel off isn't exactly a retina scan-level of security.
I recently renewed my credentials and decals at the local base, it took me longer to park then to renew them.
Quote from: lordmonar on December 02, 2011, 10:15:15 PMI think a better option would be to just make sure all the bases you work with know what our cards look like....in stead of comming up with a new card and new proceedures to get one.
This is where the effort should be spent, and it should be local through the respective SD and wing staff, etc. If the pizza dude and laundry guys can do their jobs, we should be able to.
Quote from: captdomke on December 02, 2011, 07:29:10 PM
I don't see why we can't just get military ID cards from the AF. They have them for dependents and civilian contractors on base already. Are we less trustworthy then civilian contractors who man the Burger King on base? Having an "official" military ID card would certainly lend to our credibility and also help base access issues. They are currently called the "Common Access Card".
AF Instruction 10-2701, paragraph 1.3.5
CAP ID Card. CAP members carry an ID card identifying them as members of the organization. CAP ID cards must meet Air Force standards and are considered a uniform item subject to the same approval process as other parts of the CAP uniform. The CAP ID card must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces ID card that confusion will not occur. The CAP ID card will not allow access to government facilities or other agencies and is not a government identification card.Each installation commander is responsible for determining the amount of
access, if any, which will be afforded to CAP personnel. However, the ID card will facilitate the identification of an individual as a member of the CAP. Seriously, even CAP doesn't want the possibility of "Senior Members Gone Wild, on AF bases". :angel: so that' why the Installation Commander has the final say. The regulation above specifically states the AF policy on ID cards differentiation. I would guess this fixation on ID cards again falls into the "wanna be" class of members. In our AFAUX role if we need to get on any AF military base, those "in the know" will get us in. So a look alike ID card isn't of ANY importance.
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on December 03, 2011, 01:05:55 AM
Quote from: captdomke on December 02, 2011, 07:29:10 PM
I don't see why we can't just get military ID cards from the AF. They have them for dependents and civilian contractors on base already. Are we less trustworthy then civilian contractors who man the Burger King on base? Having an "official" military ID card would certainly lend to our credibility and also help base access issues. They are currently called the "Common Access Card".
AF Instruction 10-2701, paragraph 1.3.5
CAP ID Card. CAP members carry an ID card identifying them as members of the organization. CAP ID cards must meet Air Force standards and are considered a uniform item subject to the same approval process as other parts of the CAP uniform. The CAP ID card must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces ID card that confusion will not occur. The CAP ID card will not allow access to government facilities or other agencies and is not a government identification card.
Each installation commander is responsible for determining the amount of
access, if any, which will be afforded to CAP personnel. However, the ID card will facilitate the identification of an individual as a member of the CAP.
Seriously, even CAP doesn't want the possibility of "Senior Members Gone Wild, on AF bases". :angel: so that' why the Installation Commander has the final say. The regulation above specifically states the AF policy on ID cards differentiation. I would guess this fixation on ID cards again falls into the "wanna be" class of members. In our AFAUX role if we need to get on any AF military base, those "in the know" will get us in. So a look alike ID card isn't of ANY importance.
RM
I don't know what schmucks you have in your squadron, but "12-year-olds gone wild on AF bases" is my bigger concern. I think cadets are great, but the young ones can do some pretty silly things (I know - I was one).
I don't worry about the 12 year olds as much as I worry about the 16-20 year old cadets....or the 21-95 year old cadets ;D YMMV.
DoD is implementing DBIDS (Defense Biometric Identification System) worldwide. DBIDS is a Department of Defense (DoD) identity authentication and force protection tool that is fully operational in military locations around the world. It serves as a physical access control and critical property registration system, using bar codes and biometrics to identify cardholders. DBIDS is authorized to issue DoD identity credentials for those individuals needing physical access and not otherwise eligible for a CAC. http://www.cac.mil/Authenticating.html (http://www.cac.mil/Authenticating.html)
Anyone with DOD ID cards who requires access to a base must register. This includes military whether stationed on a base, living on a base, or for any reason needing access to a base. This also includes civilian employees, contractors, retiree ID card holders, military family members, and commercial vendors. People who conduct business on the base irregularly for short periods of time will receive DBIDS encoded visitor passes. NCIC/NACI checks are run on DBIDS registrants. A fingerprint is digitally captured as well as the applicant's picture. A DBIDS card is issued to those who don't have another form of DoD ID. The cards (and visitor passes) are coded with the days of the week and hours when the person is allowed to be on base, as well as the FPCON level. All ID cards are [supposed to be] scanned at the base gates. The scanner shows whether the card holder has access.
(http://images.onset.freedom.com/nwfdn/ljlpee-ljlpc515idcards.jpg)
(http://www.peterson.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/090109-F-1688D-099.jpg)
Full size image available at: http://www.peterson.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090109-F-1688D-099.jpg (http://www.peterson.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090109-F-1688D-099.jpg)
The two Air Force bases in our state, both of which have CAP units on them, have implemented DBIDS and CAP IDs are not accepted at either base. Seniors and cadets, as well as the non-CAP parents of cadets who simply need to drive them to the meetings on base are required to have a DBIDS card. At one of the two bases cadets and their parents have been granted access only on meeting nights and weekends, but senior members were given 24/7 access (but not at all FPCON levels).
A Google search on DBIDS provides links to many news/web articles from bases where DBIDS has been implemented.
Mike
Cool.
So there you go.
...and the base that my unit is on that uses DBIDS allows all of our members, parents, cadets, potential members, etc on with a CAPID.
Does it search NCIC every time they access?
Quote from: sardak on December 03, 2011, 01:59:57 AM
DoD is implementing DBIDS (Defense Biometric Identification System) worldwide.
Wonder when it's going to get to my area. I frequently enter 4 military bases, and have neither seen nor heard anything about this. My United States Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card runs out next year, so will see what happens then. My DD Form 2 (Retired) has no expiration date, so not sure what's gonna happen with it.
Quote from: SarDragon on December 03, 2011, 07:05:04 AM
Quote from: sardak on December 03, 2011, 01:59:57 AM
DoD is implementing DBIDS (Defense Biometric Identification System) worldwide.
Wonder when it's going to get to my area. I frequently enter 4 military bases, and have neither seen nor heard anything about this. My United States Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card runs out next year, so will see what happens then. My DD Form 2 (Retired) has no expiration date, so not sure what's gonna happen with it.
My local base I use for clothing sale runs put out a warning sign that the base was going to start using it about a year and a half ago.
I asked the pass and ID lady what happened to the whole dibs things, she simply shrugged and said " money, what else changes things in the military?"
So, it would seem the current budget struggle affects more than just things that go boom or zoom.
I don't know what people are complaining about regarding the quality of the current CAP ID card. I think it is a lot nicer looking than the DBIDS card. My DBIDS card is made of a little sturdier stock, but the design is strictly utilitarian and the photograph is terribly washed out.
Although there are three AF bases within a two hour drive, (all with a CAP presence) my DBIDS card only works at one of them. It's my understanding that routine access to the other bases would require additional DBIDS cards because the existing card can't be accepted at all three. If that's accurate it's extremely unlikely we'll see CAPID's valid for base access across the board.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on December 03, 2011, 03:18:47 PM
I don't know what people are complaining about regarding the quality of the current CAP ID card. I think it is a lot nicer looking than the DBIDS card. My DBIDS card is made of a little sturdier stock, but the design is strictly utilitarian and the photograph is terribly washed out.
Although there are three AF bases within a two hour drive, (all with a CAP presence) my DBIDS card only works at one of them. It's my understanding that routine access to the other bases would require additional DBIDS cards because the existing card can't be accepted at all three. If that's accurate it's extremely unlikely we'll see CAPID's valid for base access across the board.
If your AF ID card has a bar code according to everything I've read it's pretty quick to get registered. I don't why they need to run a sub system on each base and/or group of bases. Probably because there's concern with internet access to a central data base. Also hopefully the security people won't let the technology overtake common sense. Staring at that little terminal waiting for an answer might be better spent looking at who else might be in the vehicle or what else is in the vehicle.
I've heard nothing about implementation of this on any our bases in the entire region. Perhaps budget wise, this is going to be a slow roll for implementation in the US overall.
RM
It is a common card....but not common access.
Just because Local AFB allows you access on Tuesdays between 1200 and 2200 for your CAP meeting plus time to get to the clothing store.....does not mean Faraway AFB will do so. You will have to go to that base and get your existing card registered and have them decided when you should/if you need access.
It's still the Base Commander's call on the subject of access to "his/her" base.
Which is why we can get in to Base X with no problems while it takes an armed escort to just go to a meeting on Base Y.