ABUs

[abdsp51]

In the event ABUs are authorized and that is a big if, no one here is really in a position to say who may or may not wear them.  But should it be authorized it will be on the same level as the BDU IMO. Yes a unit commander may say not at this time and an activity director has that say so.  But really to say only one group should/n't ear it is plain silly and can be construed as discriminatory. 

To the best of my knowledge there are few here on this forum that can offer any real input as to the feasibility and functionality of the uniform as they wear it on a daily basis.

Is the material heavy? Yes

Is it hot? Yes

Is it expensive? Yes

How many of you went out and bought the Iphone and its updated models the day it came out especially with all the bugs that just keep cropping up?  IS the ABU a cure all no it's not what does it blend in with as far as I can tell absolutely nothing and yes it has its downsides to it just as any other uniform does.  At the end of the day, nothing has come out about it being approved and what will/will not be worn on it.  Until then it's pretty childish to say only senior members or only cadets get to wear it. 

[Fubar]

So let say hypothetically speaking NHQ says ABUs can now be worn but oh BTW we are axing the polo shirt, then what are you going to do?

Re-evaluate my membership. When I joined, I was told I could focus on our missions and simply wear a polo-shirt "uniform" that while overpriced, was significantly cheaper than buying two sets of military-like uniforms for office and field work. By significantly changing the membership requirements, a lot of folks who don't wear military-like uniforms will internally evaluate if those new and more stringent uniform requirements are worth the time and effort to remain in CAP, or if a person's time and talent should be directed elsewhere. Yes, current regulations state each member needs to own a blues/aviator uniform, something that hasn't come up since every activity I've been to has been polo-friendly or polo-only.

At the squadron meetings and wing events that I attend, the overwhelming majority of folks are wearing polo shirts. Would all of them quit if their favorite uniform went away? My guess would be that the pilots who only get to fly when they're flying for free in CAP would invest in green or blue flight suits. Everyone else? No idea.

I know that many of you would celebrate the departure of folks like me that aren't in this for the uniforms, but my math shows the polo shirt adds people who bring value to our organization that we wouldn't have otherwise. Polo shirts = certain members and military-like = certain members. Removing either the polo shirt or military-like uniforms means loosing people. Doesn't it make sense to keep both?

[cpyahoo]

Well... when the military goes over to multi-cam, we'll be authorized the ABUs.  Understand, we WON'T be given them.  They'll probably be given to the boy scouts or some other group, but we'll be authorized to wear them.  LOL

[Luis R. Ramos]

Fubar,

Then someone lied to you when they told you the only "uniform" required could wear was a polo.

CAP regulations have always stated the required uniform is the AF blue or Gray/white combination. It has been, it is written. The polo is an alternate uniform.

Flyer

[AngelWings]

I am more than positive we will get the ABU's. Why would the USAF NOT allow us to wear them?

[Eclipse]

I am more than positive we will get the ABU's. Why would the USAF NOT allow us to wear them?

Because they won't be wearing them much longer, either.

[lordmonar]

I am more than positive we will get the ABU's. Why would the USAF NOT allow us to wear them?

Because they won't be wearing them much longer, either.

I don't think so.  That would require spending money.....and the USAF does not have money for that.
The ABUs are here to stay for the mid term anyway.

[abdsp51]

I am more than positive we will get the ABU's. Why would the USAF NOT allow us to wear them?

Because they won't be wearing them much longer, either.

Again cite please from a valid source not the a Mil times or Military.com or suspicions.  And the I highly doubt that the entire US military is going to switch over to Multicam due to the significant cost involved.  Heck the DOD is already looking at trying to cut 500 Billion from the budget this year alone.

And Fubar while the polo may be a favorite uniform option it is not the standard nor is it the required minimum uniform required.  And is someone wants to quit because their favorite non-standard uniform is taken away so be it. 

[okeecap]

Personally my favorite is the bdu like the way the creases look and the shined jump boots.  If we switch to ABUs im cheap ill switch to the BBDU its cheaper on ebay.

[abdsp51]

Personally I will not argue as to the cost of the ABU as it is expensive especially for cadets.  However until they are approved or disapproved there are uniforms that work for everyone. 

[Sapper168]

Something i was thinking of-  One of the main arguments against switching to ABU over BDU is the cost of the ABU versus BDU.   I was wondering if it was any different when CAP switched from the OD fatigues to BDU?  I mean I can't imagine that the BDU were cheaper than the surplus fatigues.

[Eclipse]

Again cite please from a valid source not the a Mil times or Military.com or suspicions.  And the I highly doubt that the entire US military is going to switch over to Multicam due to the significant cost involved.  Heck the DOD is already looking at trying to cut 500 Billion from the budget this year alone.

They don't have to switch-over wholesale this year, the fact that the uniform itself is in question and in flux is all that is necessary to
keep us from getting it.  A major USAF change would be 3-5 years coming, and it will come, not a matter of if, but when.  The writing
is clearly on the wall.

The uncertainly keeps CAP from getting it.  The only change that would make any sense would be to something everyone could wear,
or that is at least not influenced by factors outside CAP's control.  Otherwise status quo is the only way to go.

[abdsp51]

Again cite please from a valid source not the a Mil times or Military.com or suspicions.  And the I highly doubt that the entire US military is going to switch over to Multicam due to the significant cost involved.  Heck the DOD is already looking at trying to cut 500 Billion from the budget this year alone.

They don't have to switch-over wholesale this year, the fact that the uniform itself is in question and in flux is all that is necessary to
keep us from getting it.  A major USAF change would be 3-5 years coming, and it will come, not a matter of if, but when.  The writing
is clearly on the wall.

The uncertainly keeps CAP from getting it.  The only change that would make any sense would be to something everyone could wear,
or that is at least not influenced by factors outside CAP's control.  Otherwise status quo is the only way to go.

Again cite please, if you have nothing then this is a speculation and hearsay.  You keep saying the writing is one the wall well, the only writing that I have seen on the wall is that the uniform is here to stay and my sources are pretty valid.

[Eclipse]

Which writing, that ABU's are going away? That's already started in the war areas.

That CAP will never get them?  That's just common sense based on the state of the USAF uniform, our needs, and timing.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Check the horse. It's not breathing. Stop beating.

[abdsp51]

Which writing, that ABU's are going away? That's already started in the war areas.

That CAP will never get them?  That's just common sense based on the state of the USAF uniform, our needs, and timing.

Something dictated by mission necessity,  outside of the AOR Multicam is not authorized, so in actuality it is pure speculation on your part.  The AF will not spend the amount of money needed to even remotely start outfitting the entire service due to the current budget constraints and that they are already having to cut airframes and personnel.  The senior AF leadership is not going to switch over to anything anytime soon and I highly doubt even in the next 3-5 years.  So please quit throwing out there it is going to happen unless you have something concrete to stand on besides your own speculation.

[Eclipse]

My responses regarding what is "going to happen" are directly in counter to others who are "sure we're getting ABUs".  We're not,
but the value of that opinion is probably about equal.

The entirety of the conversation here is speculative, but there is at least as much support for the conjecture that ABU's are
on their downward progression, and that doubt at the DOD level regarding the general status of US field uniforms will
be enough to keep them out of CAP hands for the foreseeable future.

[abdsp51]

My responses regarding what is "going to happen" are directly in counter to others who are "sure we're getting ABUs".  We're not,
but the value of that opinion is probably about equal.

The entirety of the conversation here is speculative, but there is at least as much support for the conjecture that ABU's are
on their downward progression, and that doubt at the DOD level regarding the general status of US field uniforms will
be enough to keep them out of CAP hands for the foreseeable future.

Until there is final word one way or another people are going to ask,  it has been said that the proposal was sent up or in the works to be sent up.  If you wish to counter that we are not please feel free however unless you have something to legitimately stand on that the AF is dumping them please leave that out of the conversation/debate/argument etc.  And do not use it as your sole basis for countering the we will crowd. 

[Eclipse]

it has been said that the proposal was sent up or in the works to be sent up.

Now you can cite.

Ned has indicated on a number of occasions that no such request has been made.

[Ned]

Until there is final word one way or another people are going to ask,  it has been said that the proposal was sent up or in the works to be sent up. 

This is indeed the current state of the art.  As I have indicated in other posts, we are in the process of assembling a packet to go forward to the Office of the Secretary of Defense -- routed through our AF colleagues -- for ABU approval.

As you can well imagine, anything destined for the OSD has to be assembled very carefully.


Ned Lee
Member, National Uniform Committee
Frequent Attendee at Many Meetings and Conferences