CA Wing Newsletter article on posse comitatus

[mikeylikey]

DNall:

I certainly do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but the PCA needs some serious updating, OR Presidential intervention.  I think it would be easier to re-write the PCA to keep the general policy of having cops rather than the military enforce civil laws, but create broad exemptions to permit border, counterdrug and homeland security missions.

One of the things I proposed earlier was a "Border Defense Zone," which would include all international borders of the US except where those borders are within a city.  This would give the military a specific zone in which to operate where the PCA did not apply.

I'm sure if we put some smart guys in a room, we could come up with some commonsense ideas that still preserved the essential liberties of Americans.  Even if some of the smart guys are slackers with military history and social science degrees.

That border defense zone sounds great, but would the areas where a city sits on the border become the central point of immigration issues.  If I were the illegal trying to cross, and knew the US Military guarded the open borders, and cops guarded the city borders, I would cross in the city.  You would probably find corruption erupt in those cities and massive underground organizations spring up to bring illegals over the border into those cities and then out of them by way of a "modern underground railroad".  However, your idea would then concentrate some thousands of miles of open border into say what like 100 if we counted all the border towns in the north and south.  Just a thought.

[RiverAux]

There has been talking of updating the PCA ever since 9/11 but if a bill was even filed, it certainly didn't go very far. 

[DNall]

DNall:

I certainly do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but the PCA needs some serious updating, OR Presidential intervention.  I think it would be easier to re-write the PCA to keep the general policy of having cops rather than the military enforce civil laws, but create broad exemptions to permit border, counterdrug and homeland security missions.

One of the things I proposed earlier was a "Border Defense Zone," which would include all international borders of the US except where those borders are within a city.  This would give the military a specific zone in which to operate where the PCA did not apply.

I'm sure if we put some smart guys in a room, we could come up with some commonsense ideas that still preserved the essential liberties of Americans.  Even if some of the smart guys are slackers with military history and social science degrees.

See now think about what's been done in the past. Generally sucha border zone is called a DE-militarized zone, specifically because if you put our troops next to their corrupt troops, you get bad news. There's good logic in what youre saying , but you have to balance it in the potential for international problems that ultimately keep you from accomplishing your original objective.

That border defense zone sounds great, but would the areas where a city sits on the border become the central point of immigration issues.  If I were the illegal trying to cross, and knew the US Military guarded the open borders, and cops guarded the city borders, I would cross in the city.  You would probably find corruption erupt in those cities and massive underground organizations spring up to bring illegals over the border into those cities and then out of them by way of a "modern underground railroad".  However, your idea would then concentrate some thousands of miles of open border into say what like 100 if we counted all the border towns in the north and south.  Just a thought.

I don't know what your exposure to the situation is, but people DO cross in such border towns with very little effort & do board something akin to a criminal version of the underground railroad smuggling immigrants, drugs, prostitution slaves, weapons, etc. The police on the American side of such towns are not the best - there's a certain tolerance of activities that pass thru w/o causing problems, and a certain extra-judicial way of dealing with things that do cause problems; it's a lot like old movies where the local cops had an "understanding" with the mob as long as violence didn't effect civilians & things were out of sight out of mind. The authorities on the mexican side (local, state, federal cops, AND military) actively take money to escort shippments into US territory - which has gotten very far out of hand before. Those little border towns on the other side used to be great, but in case you haven't heard there's a cartel war on right now - people don't make money when fighting, underlings turn to kidnap for ransom... It's bad news down there man, real bad news.

I don't know if there's a good overall solution, but personally I don't see any problem w/ military Air being more directly involved. It's boots on the ground w/ weps that gets into a dangerous escelation.

[mikeylikey]

Perhaps we as a nation need to somehow persuade the Mexican government to crack down harder on their citizens.  Sounds like the problem should be addressed more in-depth by them and the US government should do the "clean-up" work.  As everyone will surely tell me "that is not the world we live in".  I understand.  But it would be nice!

[DNall]

We give them gillions of dollars a year specifically to combat these problems, clean up corruption, & push their economy so they don't come leach on ours. Personally, I'd try to pull back from places like China in favor of exploiting mexican labor. There's just no way it can cost less to make something in China & ship it back here than to make it in Mexico. I'm not sure what else we can do w/o freakin invading the place, and we're doing such a good job nation building these days I'm sure that'd be a snap.

[JohnKachenmeister]

It is true that if the military defended the border except in cities, that cities would be the target of increased smuggling activity.  But with the military patrolling the more remote areas, the Border Patrol could concentrate its forces in the urban areas.  All you would need is one Agent per battalion as the "Official" arresting guy.  The battalion troops are technicaly his deputies.  This is what the Navy does in embarking a single Coast Guard officer on a naval ship to interdict dope shipments.

And if Mexican troops are found on OUR side of the border, as has happened, they would face American Army troops, not American police.  I don't think that the Mexican Army would want to find itself in that position, no matter how high the bribe.  Bribes are good only if you live to spend them.