Cadet Command Chief Master Sergeant Rank

Started by SemperVigHooah, April 08, 2019, 01:17:56 AM

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lordmonar

Quote from: Eclipse on April 08, 2019, 08:21:31 PM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on April 08, 2019, 08:03:00 PM
Quote from: Capmonkey on April 08, 2019, 07:41:35 PM
I still don't agree with the position.

Why's that?

Because that's not a thing that exists, nor is allowed to exist?
Not allowed?    I can create any position I want when I'm running my encampment.
I can call the top NCO position Command Chief or I can tall him Assistant to the Cadet Commander.  There are no regulations that govern this as far as I know.

Now....if they start gluing stars on the C/CMSgt Insignia and giving him a smokey bear hat.....that's crossing the line.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Eclipse

#21
Quote from: lordmonar on April 09, 2019, 04:08:21 AM
There are no regulations that govern this as far as I know.

Now....if they start gluing stars on the C/CMSgt Insignia and giving him a smokey bear hat.....that's crossing the line.

A: 60-70 quoted in this thread.  Yeah it's a pamphlet, but it's also indicated as the authority by a reg.

B: Making up names for otherwise existing positions isn't what we're discussing, but still, the whole
idea of standardization works against making up positions, especially those at a larger scope then an encampment
is supposed to emulate.

One of the ongoing issues cited by NHQ is trying to get encampments to some semblance of a standard, is that
foibles and warts aside, they provided a clear framework, including structure and terminology, and yet some 6+ years
later wings insist on ignoring the parts they don't like.

C: Agree about home-grown insignia and smokey hats.

"That Others May Zoom"

MSG Mac

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on April 08, 2019, 08:03:00 PM
Quote from: Capmonkey on April 08, 2019, 07:41:35 PM
I still don't agree with the position.

Why's that?

NHQ came down heavily on that several years ago. To paraphrase: There is no authorized grade of C/CCMSgt, and there is also no authorization for "temporary" grades for encampments.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 09, 2019, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on April 08, 2019, 08:03:00 PM
Quote from: Capmonkey on April 08, 2019, 07:41:35 PM
I still don't agree with the position.

Why's that?

NHQ came down heavily on that several years ago. To paraphrase: There is no authorized grade of C/CCMSgt, and there is also no authorization for "temporary" grades for encampments.

It's not a grade in that sense. It's a duty assignment.

We don't have Adjutants either in cadet squadrons, but some Encampments have them.

We're taking guidance way too literally here without reading the "shoulds" vs. "shalls" as they apply. It's fairly open in maintaining flexibility so long as the military-style structure is maintained. It doesn't need to be exact to the org chart depicted in the pamphlet.


And if we're going to take the text as literal, it clearly states Encampments will operate using the traditional, military-style "line" and "staff" organizational model, similar to what is depicted in Figure 4.1 on page 19. In this regard specifically, you adjust the organizational structure to be within the military-style model to meet the need of the Encampment:
1.) The number of cadets
2.) The grades of the cadets
3.) The betterment of hometown units




MSG Mac

When National came down on that there was an Encampment that published pictures of cadets wearing the Chief insignia with star and Smokie hats. Both of which were and still are illegal wear.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 09, 2019, 07:10:38 PM
When National came down on that there was an Encampment that published pictures of cadets wearing the Chief insignia with star and Smokie hats. Both of which were and still are illegal wear.

Totally tracking now, and in complete agreement.


Capmonkey

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on April 09, 2019, 08:02:50 PM
Quote from: MSG Mac on April 09, 2019, 07:10:38 PM
When National came down on that there was an Encampment that published pictures of cadets wearing the Chief insignia with star and Smokie hats. Both of which were and still are illegal wear.

Totally tracking now, and in complete agreement.

Agree. Even C/Command Chiefs at my Wing Encampment wear the star in the insignia...

Ned

NHQ/CP attempts to support our terrific encampment commanders in the reasoned exercise of their discretion within the limits of our regulations.  If a given encampment commander wants to employ an NCO position at the cadet group level of encampment, we will support that decision.  If they don't need one, that's OK, too. 

However, no encampment commander may permit the wearing of unauthorized grade insignia, like, say, stars on a hypothetical Cadet Command Chief Master Sergeant insignia.  That would be improper in any wing, and I would hope that any experienced CP officer would point out such an error and help educate any members that might otherwise believe it was proper. 


I understand that many, if not all, CONUS encampments will enjoy outside visitors this summer.  This will be an excellent opportunity to spread Best Encampment Practices throughout the country.


Ned Lee

National Cadet Program Manager

SarDragon

On that note, I think this topic has run its course.
Say goodbye.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret