SPOT GPS IS SPOTTY

[wingnut55]

I started to buy one last night an when I went to the REI web site I found some disturbing customer reviews.

http://www.rei.com

OF 47 Reviews 20 reviewers had serious problems with reliability, accuracy, poor or no coverage

Here are some

I was quite excited that they finally made a product like this - it makes solo hiking and backpacking much more justifiable to friends and family! HOWEVER - the first time I used it - none of the messages went through. I was on the Napali Coast with a friend backpacking along. Because of the nature of the trail, friends and family were concerned - but I assured them I had my new SPOT and they would know exactly where we were and that we were ok. I sent a test message to myself prior to leaving and it worked fine (took a while - but worked). I made sure to verify the numbers it was supposed to send to, and set about our trip. We returned to some very upset and worried family - none of the 2 or 3 daily messages went through. I emailed SPOT 5 days ago and have not yet heard from them. Disappointing first use - hopefully it gets better.

[wingnut55]

he SPOT is very disappointing, I do not know if the 911 or help function worked because of the rules with these features. The OK feature works fine as long as you can set out the SPOT for at least ½ hour without moving it. The tracking feature did not work, well it worked as long as you had it sitting somewhere not moving, I had on my pack or on belt with full view of unobstructed sky if moving the tracking did not work at all. I thought it must be me, but after half dozen conversations with SPOT tech services It was confirmed I was using it properly. OK, REI great company it is, replaced it with a new one and guess what, the new one doesn't track. I worked with SPOT customer service, who agree my operation is proper and they cannot say why it doesn't work. Big picture is do you trust the 911 feature if the basic features they advertise are not working? REI is again stepping up to help they are checking with SPOT about the problem and exchanging or refunding the purchase.

[wingnut55]

On Amazon.com 3 of 8 reviews were very negative
Here is one from a pilot.

A group of use (pilots) bought the SPOT Satellite Personal Tracker and have been completely horrified by its lack of performance. The idea and promise is very compelling, however, the stability of their system is truly absurd. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be your emergency tracking and notification system. The problem is that their website is always crashing - which they call maintenance (never posted on the website beforehand though). Also, many of the messages sent from the Personal tracker never show up on their website. We've done several test where we lay a SPOT out in the middle of the ramp at our airport, press the help button, and about half the time the messages are never delivered. Our hope, for the longest time, was that this company would eventually get their system working correctly, or at least predictably, however that has simply not been the case. In fact, when you contact them by email their responses are very caviler.

Put your money into a PLB which doesn't have a subscription fee and has a company with a great track record of rescue service (The US Air Force)    :clap:

I swear he said that!!

[wingnut55]

From a Guy Named Pig Fly
After waiting on the 1 to 3 day so called expedited shipping from Beach Camera I received the Spot Messenger.I am currently at the 24 hour mark in my attempts to register the unit.After completing the entire registration
to the "finish registration" point I received an error message to please call to register.I am told tonight that there is a software problem with
the online registration and to wait another 12 to 24 hours.After enduring
months of Globalstars (parent company) diminishing satellite phone reception,I'M not much of a believer!
At this point disappointed...

and the last one on Amazon.com

By    world traveler
globalstar has bad service. 1/2 of the satellites are nonfunctional. I would save my money...

[wingnut55]

GPS Magazine gives it a 2.8 out of 4

http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2008/01/spot_satellite_messenger_perso.php

A bad review
My Spot unit could never acquire a GPS location or send and OK message. I did try one test "Help" message which went through but, it had no location for my position. Good thing that I didn't need help, a smoke signal would have been much more effective.

The worst

I have found also that the SPOT does not work as advertised. In fact I thoroughly field tested it in the Wyoming Wilderness both with a clear view and with some trees and canyons. I am a seasoned veteran commercial outfitter for 23 years. I used my very nice Garmin 60csx side by side to see if in fact it was acquiring the satellites (at least the Garmin did anyway on every press of the OK on the SPOT)so I know it is capable of tracking the satellites in the geographic locations. What's even more discouraging is finding all of the negative reviews (like this one). I'm most disturbed by the customer help line which literally told me I was wrong and to try it a couple more weeks. It was real clear the person I received knew nothing and was offended I honestly told him it DID NOT send one OK message in a 5 day wilderness trek, AND we gave every benefit of the doubt to the unit because I truly wanted it to work. I told him how can I trust this for a 911? He said that was different and it WILL work no matter what. I really do not believe him? Pissed off would be a good word to describe my feelings towards this company and their attitude. I just hope at least some people read this. If they don't make corrections to fix this unit(what ever that might be)it will go "belly up" because the proof really is in the pudding. I know I'm not alone!

[wingnut55]

Another from GPS Magazine


I agree with those that have had very poor performance from the Spot tracker. I have been using it for almost a month and I have to leave it outside for more than 15 minutes before it gets a GPS fix. Many of the OK and HELP messages that I have sent do not go through and I am locted in southern Europe which is supposed to have good coverage. In my tests, it only works reliably if you stand still with the unit above your head pointing at the sky...

AGAIN

Having used SPOT for the past 2 months in boating here in coastal New England I have found the service unreliable. Numerous signals have been sent for waypoint confirmation and yet only 1 or 2 are ever received. Today,Saturday my son is out sailing off coastal New England out of Cell Phone range and his signals have not been received. Also, I cannot access my SPOT account, ERROR message comes up. Customer Care could not help out since it is technical in nature. I'll have to wait until Monday to hear back back. Mean while, so much for "Peace of Mind!" Good Concept, Dangerously Un-Reliable. Go to an EPIRB or ELT for quality and reliability. Save your money on SPOT unit!

[wingnut55]

GPS MAGAZINE

From CANADA

The real problem with SPOT is that it is on the Globalstar system. Which has very poor coverage in the northern hemisphere (especially eastern North America from the 48 parallel northward.

We use satellite phone regularly in Algonquin Park and northern Georgian Bay in Ontario and gave up on Global Star years ago because of poor, spotty or none existent service in the area. I've been told that Gobal Star's satellites are old and some of them are now dead leaving very weak or spotty coverage in the north (don't know how true this is, but makes a lot of sense).

We switched to the Iridium Satellite network and their coverage is amazing, even in tree cover in the areas I talked about.

If the SPOT or a similar device becomes available on any other network I'll be the 1st to sign up. But as long as it remains on the Globalstar network save you money. It is not going to work for you in these areas.

[wingnut55]

I emailed one of the reviewers and he told me that he put a negative review of his spot experience on the SPOT web site and The SPOT company removed it. . .

Hmmm

WELL I have big problems with this

But I ordered one anyway, what the Heck

[isuhawkeye]

I had a lot of similar concerns with the device early on. 

THe biggest issue for me was that I needed to realize that (in spite of marketing ) it is not a real time massager.  Here are the facts

REmember your first GPS???

Remember how it took forever to acquire satellites, and when it did it lost signal quickly depending upon how you positioned the unit?

Thats the SPOT GPS. 

It is not a turn on and push the help button device. 

I turn mine on in the car on my way to the airport, or park.  I throw it on the dash.  by the time i'm ready to hit the sky/trail its ready to go. 

While hiking I dont attach it to my belt.  it doesn't work.  I clip it to the top of the outside of my pack, and it works great.  For flying I put it where it gets the best view of the sky. 

Keeping these aspects in mind it gets out about 2/3 of the tracks which is more than enough for my needs.

WHile fishing in canada an OK update went out every day which is fine for me.

THat has been my experience with SPOT. 

In short, if you are looking for the device to be an orange cell phone to send text messages you will be upset.  If you learn its abilities you will be satisfied. 

Dont forget this is generation 1 technology.  I'm sure it will grow, develop, become more reliable, and offer more features


In the spirit of full disclosure SPOT gave me a unit for testing, but I now pay the subscription fees. 

[MIKE]

Hey Wingnut, you can post more than one review per post.  Just go back and edit rather than spamming replies.

[wingnut55]

Hey Mike I was not spamming I was posting replies, try not tobe such a stickler about the Blog, this is about exchange of information, I was kind of shocked at the troubles with SPOT, but as we all know the SDIS globalstar system has been a boondoggle to.
I would hat for CAP members to head down that trail

Best regards

[es_g0d]

This seems to be the best-related topic for a comment.  If it doesn't work I'll start a new thread ...

First, SPOT coverage in Alaska is amazingly good.  I was VERY skeptical knowing that the unit uses the globalstar constellation.  I've been let down enough (90%+) times by the SDIS and its associated satphone not to trust globalstar.  But for some reason -- my guess is the much lower bandwidth needed by a GPS packet -- the SPOT works great here in the Last Frontier.

My question for the group is this: does anyone know of a way to track multiple SPOT receivers (on different accounts) on a single screen?  My google-fu has turned up nothing useful thus far.  Anyone? 

PS I don't trust my life to SPOT, or an "old" ELT: I also carry a 406 PLB and an Iridium satphone.

[isuhawkeye]

I've got a spot.  I have put it through its paces, and I have posted several reviews on my website.

Disclosure:  I am not an employee of spot, nor am I paid by them, but they did provide me the unit for trial.

The spot uses the simplex component of their network.  THe sat phones, and SDIS have had problems because of the duplex nature of the network

The GPS receiver in the unit works, and here in Iowa it has good coverage.  As with any simple GPS receiver it does take a few minutes to acquire its position when cold. 

I personally carry a spot when I fly, and I have more faith in help coming because of a SPOT activation than I do from the ELT.  That is assuming that I can activate it (it doesn't have a g-force trigger like an ELT)

TO answer your question I have not found a system that allows the tracking of multiple units at one time.

[NIN]

At the place I skydive, we have school for "wingsuiting" and we have a big wingsuit presence every weekend.  Due to the nature of their jumping, the chance of them winding up over the wrong patch of ground at deployment time is rather high, and consequently they "land off" a lot.  Finding people who land off can be challenging when the only set of directions you have is "they looked like they were coming down to the left of the ski hill" or "on the other side of the river, short of the gravel pit.."  Never mind someone who lands off and needs emergency assistance (bad landing, tree landing, etc) soonest.

I suggested the SPOT unit to our head BirdbrainMan, and he's investigating ways of using it not only for emergency purposes, but also for just plain tracking of these guys in flight so they can compare their flight paths, etc.  (At the moment, they use Wintec Bluetooth GPS units jammed into their helmets for data logging.  Comparison of their paths is a multi-step, computer intensive operation.  Even considering most of our folks are tech guys, I'm not sure if a SPOT would make that easier or better.) 

In a "land off" scenario, someone with a Blackberry might be able to get a better "spot" (pardon the pun) on them for pickup and have them in hand in just a few minutes (vice the 15-20 minutes of figuring out where they might be, which side of the river they're on, etc)

And then there is the ability to activate the emergency features (if able) to get the first responders rolling.

[isuhawkeye]

great observations.  THe SPOT is probably to big to fit into a helmet, but you could activate its track feature, and get position updates every 10 minutes.

[Major Lord]

I've got a spot.  I have put it through its paces, and I have posted several reviews on my website.

Disclosure:  I am not an employee of spot, nor am I paid by them, but they did provide me the unit for trial.

The spot uses the simplex component of their network.  THe sat phones, and SDIS have had problems because of the duplex nature of the network

The GPS receiver in the unit works, and here in Iowa it has good coverage.  As with any simple GPS receiver it does take a few minutes to acquire its position when cold. 

I personally carry a spot when I fly, and I have more faith in help coming because of a SPOT activation than I do from the ELT.  That is assuming that I can activate it (it doesn't have a g-force trigger like an ELT)

TO answer your question I have not found a system that allows the tracking of multiple units at one time.

Here you go: http://byonics.com/microtrak/

In the interest of full disclosure, I manufacture the MT-AIO, and it requires a ham license to operate. (not that that would stop you from doing so in an emergency!) No subscription, no maintenance fees, cheap AA batteries, and a nationwide network of digipeater support. No limitation on the number of units that can be operated.

Major Lord

[isuhawkeye]

I agree 100% APRS is an excellent tool for tracking individuals, units, and resources. 

[NIN]

great observations.  THe SPOT is probably to big to fit into a helmet, but you could activate its track feature, and get position updates every 10 minutes.

Yeah, if its an "every 10 minutes" thing, as I now realize, it may be useless for inflight tracking of our Birdmen (as much as they all want to believe their own marketing hype, nothing but kerosene-fired turbines is going to keep you in the air longer than 2 minutes from a normal altitude..).  However, for the whole "Hey, come find me" notification or the "ouch, I got a boo-boo" emergency alerting, its still useful.

Slightly off topic: a company recently marketed a device that would allow you to track a cutaway canopy using a handheld DF-type unit with a small, thin transmitter than attaches to the parachute risers.    A lost canopy is potentially worth big money (on the order of $1000-2200), so folks are motivated to get those back even if it means spending a little money.   CAP units in the vicinity of a larger DZ might turn this into a win by improving their DF capability AND getting some funds on top of that.   Or just volunteering to line-search an area. 

(This is one example: http://www.atair.com/press/brochures/Atair_ALERT.pdf)

[isuhawkeye]

This has been one great talk.  the people who are often upset at the SPOT don't know its capabilities, and they expect it to do to much. 

its interesting to compare different tools, and to see how they all best fit to appropriate applications

[Major Lord]

Maybe the SPOT needs a 121.5 emitter just in case......

Major Lord

[isuhawkeye]

You know, I thought about that, but after talking with a friend who used the 911 function after a snowmobile wreck in the rockies.  He said that the response was so quick and accurate that I'm not sure that any DF based response team (other than the active duty coast guard) could be quick enough to make that feature affective. 

Now, including an avalanche beacon into the unit would be interesting

Or,

I'm not a fan of carrying 2 GPS units.  If they added a screen, and a simple interface like an E-trex I would be really happy

[es_g0d]

Of course we can what-if and build in multiple features into the "future SPOT."  I think that would seriously detract from the simplicity of the device, though.  The elegance of the SPOT is that its nearly as simple as a hammer.  I'd allow my technologically phobic parents to operate it should the need arise.

That said, a deluxe-SPOT ought to include GPS navigation, as well as the ability to modify the "OK" or "HELP" messages.  At that point it would become a true one-way messenger.  I think those features are more in line with a GPS company than with SPOT, but that's just my opinion.  I could see either SPOT or a GPS receive manufacturer making that happen.  It would be pretty spiffy.

Another call to technophiles .... any way to combine multiple SPOT tracks on a single page???  I need this technical challenge solved!

[Major Lord]

I was actually being facetious when I suggested adding a 121.5 beacon. The principal drawback of the SPOT is the satellite backbone weakness, and its low output power. a 406 ELT uses 5 full Watts of uplink power ( although admittedly to a different set of satellites) I believe the SPOT output is on the nature of a hundreds of Milliwatts, but I am not sure exactly. Its a great idea, but the space station end needs work. Still, they are cheap insurance, and might work in areas where APRS does not have coverage, like the botom of canyons, etc. Adding bandaids like a 121.5 beacon won't improve it, ad adding power eating features like a display GPS take away from its primary purpose as a distress or critical incident transmitter. 

Major Lord