Who's in charge?

[C/ID-073]

A Flight Commander is a usually an officer, and a First Sergeant is usually a Master Sergeant through Chief Master Sergeant. I've been taught back and forth who is really considered higher in the chain of command. I've been told it is the first sergeant, but a flight commander is an officer...wouldn't they be in charge?

How I sometimes try to see it is that the first sergeant isn't really directly in the chain of command, s/he works directly with the cadet commander and they help the C/CC out by mentoring the flight and flight sergeant.

Recently with planning in my squadron the first sergeant is helping us a lot, which is fine-he needs too. However, my flight commander hasn't even been included in the staff meetings when I think she should be. And she's confused why she isn't when she plays a pretty big role in the squadron. She was told that she takes orders from First Sergeant and that she doesn't make goals the for the flight (But the Cadet Staff Handbook says they do.). It seems like the first sergeant is 'over her' in the chain of command. Is this the way is it supposed to be?-I don't think it is...

I appreciate any help! Thank you.
Respectfully,
C/1stLt. Kubik

[CAPDCCMOM]

With out knowing the whole situation, I think that the Sergeant and the C/CC need to have better communication. He should not have meetings that the C/CC is not aware of, but by the same token, is she available to her Cadets for information. I will jot say that anyone is being improper without the information. I would ask about communication between the two and among the Cadets in general.

[kwe1009]

Completely wrong.  Nobody of any rank reports to the First Sergeant.  A quick look at CAPP 52-15 will answer all of your questions.  Take a look at page 12 to see who should be planning meetings. 

[C/ID-073]

With out knowing the whole situation, I think that the Sergeant and the C/CC need to have better communication. He should not have meetings that the C/CC is not aware of, but by the same token, is she available to her Cadets for information. I will jot say that anyone is being improper without the information. I would ask about communication between the two and among the Cadets in general.

"CAPDCCMOM",
The First Sergeant and myself do have good communication. There are no meetings going on that I am not aware of. My problem is that is that my flight commander has been has been pushed aside and I'm wondering if that's the way it should be.
Thank you for you input!
Respectfully,
C/1stLt. Kubik

[CAPDCCMOM]

Then to answer your question, Yes this is wrong. If the First Sergeant holds a meeting, it needs to be held with the knowledge and approval of the C/CC, unless you are planning her surprise birthday party. She needs to let the Sergeant in question know that she needs to be made aware of meetings and provided with the minutes of the meeting if she is unable to attend. IMHO

[C/ID-073]

Completely wrong.  Nobody of any rank reports to the First Sergeant.  A quick look at CAPP 52-15 will answer all of your questions.  Take a look at page 12 to see who should be planning meetings.

"kwe1009",
That's is what I assumed as well.
I looked in the handbook, and it says the flight commander or cadet commander draft the weeks agenda and then it get's approved by the squadron commander or deputy. Right now we are in the stage of planning the broad strokes of the quarters agenda, those are the staff meetings I'm talking about. Should my flight commander be involved in these meetings? The cadets who have been in these meetings is myself, the first sergeant, the XO, and the leadership and aerospace officers.
Respectfully,
C/1stLt. Kubik

[LSThiker]

"CAPDCCMOM",
The First Sergeant and myself do have good communication. There are no meetings going on that I am not aware of. My problem is that is that my flight commander has been has been pushed aside and I'm wondering if that's the way it should be.
Thank you for you input!
Respectfully,
C/1stLt. Kubik

The first sergeant has no personnel directly underneath their position.  They are an advisor role for the cadets, not a line leadership role.  The flight commander works for the Cadet Commander. 

In fact, one of my pet peeves is that when the cadet commander is gone, people assume that the First Sergeant is in charge.  Not true.  The Flight Commander then takes the lead. 

[MSG Mac]

Yes the Flight Commander (and any staff members affected) should be included in meetings and communications. Who told you and the rest of the staff that the First Sergeant sets the goals?

[arajca]

Yes, your flight commander should be in those meetings.

As Cadet Commander, you set the goals for the cadets overall. The Flight Commander does the same for their flight. They should be in the planning meetings to help ensure their flight's goals are covered.

As Cadet Commander, it is YOUR responsibility to set the Flight Commander and First Sergeant straight. YOU need to make the chain of command clear. If the senior staff is interfering, meet with the CDC to clarify things.

[THRAWN]

Look at the chart in 20-1. It shows the first sergeant in their proper position. One of the things that has always irked me about the position is that there is no job description. Makes it hard to play the game with no rules.

[Shieldel]

As a C/2nd Lt, Cadet Commander of Nellis Composite Squadron (So I have active duty over sight, most of you here know screen name "lordmonar" he's a SMSgt) let me tell you how we do things to better help you. I have an Active Duty First Sgt in my unit as well along with our Deputy for Cadets being AD. Lot of AD in NCS lol

First of all... YES. Your flight commander should be in staff meetings. ALL of my command staff (we have no support positions filled for right now, strictly command) from flight sgt to myself are there. The Flight Sgt and Commander, First Sgt, my deputy and myself, our meetings are 5 people 18-1830, the general meeting with all cadets beginning at 1830 going to 2100. And your First Sgt should also not be handling things. YOU should unless s/he has your approval to conduct such meetings. (just reviewed the posts that have come as I'm typing for the following)
If you're talking about meetings for the schedule I would say at the very least all command staff need to be included so yes, bring your Flight Commander in. Back when we did the schedules for NCS for last term, we also tried to plan classes as far out as we could. I was the ES NCO back then, we did include support staff for safety and ES and the like for scheduling so they knew what was coming and could plan better as a result.

First Sgt is SEPARATE and OUTSIDE of the chain of command. The First Sgt can work and be a supervisor to flight staff and act as the go between the deputy and C/CC however they also need to realize if you were to look at a chain structure (I think suggested squadron make ups are in a regulation somewhere, off the top of my head I can't remember which one however) the First Sgt would be off to the side. Here at NCS we practice and involve First Sgt within the chain. Call down tree goes Flight Sgt to Flight Comm who reports it to First Sgt who reports to deputy, then myself and I finally hand it off to the Deputy Commander for Cadets. At meetings I pass down orders to First Sgt who passes them down to flight. You can involve your First Sgt within your chain however you also need to realize you don't HAVE to. Like I said above, if you were to look at those graphs for suggested structure the First Sgt is off to the side. You can just the same have your Flight Command report directly to yourself and your deputy.

Hope I helped!

[lordmonar]

You say it and say it over and over again......sometimes it feels good that some of your lessons stick.   

To C/ID......you need to bring your concerns to your cadet commander and maybe the deputy commander for cadets.

The staff/leadership work load break down may be different at your squadron that at others.....but it does sound strange.

Good luck.

[Гугл переводчик]

I think things are getting a little out of hand and misunderstood here...


We have those meetings as a command meeting in which we only want certain members of cadet command and senior leadership to attend, in order to get some issues fixed and other scheduling issues corrected. The senior leadership only wanted certain members as a part of this.

The cadet staff has it's own staff meetings, and thats fine. The seniors do too. We just decided to form a special group for these kinds of meetings.

Also, if you have major questions like this, you are free to e-mail the Deputy Commander of Cadets or myself.

[TheSkyHornet]

That moment two people ( cadet and senior member) from the same unit get on CAP Talk on the same post...

I actually love this discussion because it's one of the most common questions regarding the cadet chain of command. It seems a lot of people don't understand the role of the First Sergeant, and I think some of this attributes to the fact that we make cadets go from being enlisted to being a top-tier NCO to being a bottom-level officer and working their way back up. It's like a hill that drops and then swoops back upward. Not to mention that a lot of cadet programs don't properly utilize their staff the way they should, and the delegation of authority doesn't really allow officers to be officers, NCOs to be NCOs, and the First Sergeant to be the First Sergeant.

The responses already posted on here have been fantastic.

[Shieldel]

That moment two people ( cadet and senior member) from the same unit get on CAP Talk on the same post...

I actually love this discussion because it's one of the most common questions regarding the cadet chain of command. It seems a lot of people don't understand the role of the First Sergeant, and I think some of this attributes to the fact that we make cadets go from being enlisted to being a top-tier NCO to being a bottom-level officer and working their way back up. It's like a hill that drops and then swoops back upward. Not to mention that a lot of cadet programs don't properly utilize their staff the way they should, and the delegation of authority doesn't really allow officers to be officers, NCOs to be NCOs, and the First Sergeant to be the First Sergeant.

The responses already posted on here have been fantastic.

NCS is represented well on this board I'd say haha. I had a rocky start on this board awhile back when I was 15-16, for the lack of a better word, I was a young idiot. I've done alot of learning as a cadet and am happy to be a part of Nellis Comp and am VERY happy to have mentors such as Sgt Harris who have since kept me on the straight and narrow.

On the current topic: I COMPLETELY agree, the responses here have been helpful and I personally hope we got the issue straightened out and confusion cleared up for the OP

(edited, involved personal past in my CAP Career I'd rather not air out again)

[C/ID-073]

Thank you, everyone who replied, I appreciate it. It helped a lot, and I think we got things sorted out at my squadron as far as this goes.
Thanks again!
Respectfully,
C/Capt. Kubik