1st Lt for Life...Oy!!!

[Major Carrales]

What is your opinion of the "1st Lt for Life?"

Well, let's first define this person.  As some of you know, one reaches a sort of "road block" at 1st Lt because beyond this is the first promotion that requires a element beyond the unit of local group, the ubiquitous COURSE 13.

So, is there anything to be said for or against a CAP Officer that declines to take that course and remains a 1st Lt for Life?

(NOTE: A bit of a clarification: the bottom two positions are EXAMPLES to demonstrate both sides of the issue based on actual comments I have heard made while in CAP.)
Pros
A 1st Lt for life is pretty much a "unit level" bloke and is likely a solid SQUADRON STAFFER that is a player in the system that makes CAP operate "where the rubber meets the road."  Not a bad thing...eh?

Cons
All CAP Officers should have promotion on their mind/agenda.  Professional Development is the key to CAP, being a 1st Lt longer than five years is a blasphemy, it shows a person is lazy.  Disgraceful!!!

OK, these are both viable points argued in different subjects.  What say you? 

[MIKE]

CAP grade is a joke... Both the 1st Lt for life, and the box top fast burner Lt Col are undesirable.

[Major Carrales]

CAP grade is a joke... Both the 1st Lt for life, and the box top fast burner Lt Col are undesirable.

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

[Lancer]

CAP grade is a joke... Both the 1st Lt for life, and the box top fast burner Lt Col are undesirable.

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

Yeah Mike, that was uncalled for... the Major is quite upset now. 

[wuzafuzz]

CAP grade is a joke... Both the 1st Lt for life, and the box top fast burner Lt Col are undesirable.

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

You did ask for opinions.  Calling a "1st Lt for life" lazy isn't any better. 

CAP is many things to many people.  I suggest we should be grateful for any useful volunteer time we get from members.  There are plenty of valuable career 1st Lieutenants out there.  I would personally hate to see them go.

[shorning]

CAP grade is a joke... Both the 1st Lt for life, and the box top fast burner Lt Col are undesirable.

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

Yeah Mike, that was uncalled for... the Major is quite upset now. 

That's right!  Now salute and make up!   

[Major Carrales]

CAP grade is a joke... Both the 1st Lt for life, and the box top fast burner Lt Col are undesirable.

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

You did ask for opinions.  Calling a "1st Lt for life" lazy isn't any better. 

CAP is many things to many people.  I suggest we should be grateful for any useful volunteer time we get from members.  There are plenty of valuable career 1st Lieutenants out there.  I would personally hate to see them go.

I asked for opinion, not insults.  Had any other of us done that, the post would have been locked since the topic is not about "what CAP grade should/shouldn't be" but rather, what an individual does in Professional Development  What is good for the goose is good for the gander...even if the gander is a moderator.

You will note that the term is in quotation marks, that indicates that this is a term I heard and was passing it on.  It is the prompt for the post.

Secondly, I proposed both sides of the matter to spur a debate.  Thus, neither side is my position.  I know some of you don't fully understand how objectivity works...I mean, really, in our politically charged times where everyone has to have some side or agenda.  You know, where one has to be a Republican or a Democrat (LIBERAL or CONSERVATIVE) where the one side out paces the other in ones mind and the opposing side can never be correct.  I mean, who can possibly be taken seriously for standing back and looking at or presenting two differing sides?  How can it be at a person might actually present both sides of an issue to find a compromise?  

In anycase, I agree, I would hate to see these people go.  As I stated above, there is a middle ground to be explored on this issue.  In that area, truly the heart and soul of CAP, lies the answer.  

[Major Carrales]

CAP grade is a joke... Both the 1st Lt for life, and the box top fast burner Lt Col are undesirable.

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

Yeah Mike, that was uncalled for... the Major is quite upset now. 

Ha! (incredulous...albiet no serious manner) This from a guy that actually has a portal person with a lap top and camera!!! Scandalous!!!

[Major Carrales]

CAP grade is a joke... Both the 1st Lt for life, and the box top fast burner Lt Col are undesirable.

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

Yeah Mike, that was uncalled for... the Major is quite upset now. 

That's right!  Now salute and make up!   

And this from the man who christened me "SPARKY!!!"

[LtCol057]

I'm curious about the term "box top fast burner Lt Col".  I have an idea what it means, but not sure. I'm sorry, kinda dumb here sometimes. I came in as a SM, was supposed to get 2nd Lt after Level 1 because I was a paramedic, but it still took awhile, cause paperwork got "lost" in the black hole we know as wing.  In fact, all of my promotions took longer than necessary because of "lost paperwork".

[NIN]

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

Why? Because its essentially so true?

[Major Carrales]

I'm curious about the term "box top fast burner Lt Col".  I have an idea what it means, but not sure. I'm sorry, kinda dumb here sometimes. I came in as a SM, was supposed to get 2nd Lt after Level 1 because I was a paramedic, but it still took awhile, cause paperwork got "lost" in the black hole we know as wing.  In fact, all of my promotions took longer than necessary because of "lost paperwork".

Don't worry, that is not a usually used phrase in CAP.  I likely refers to a person who promotes uber quickly in the CAP by whizzing through (or on ) their professional development in a manner that sees them rise.  Some might say, too quickly.

This is in reference to the 1950s-90s practice of sending in boxtops to collect a prize from a cereal ad campaign.  Some might buy the boxes for an intent other that the intended one, to eat cereal.  In some cases, where people dislike the cereal.  In this case, the "Box Tops" are CAP promotion criteria, the "cereal" being neglected is actual service to CAP and the "prize" is being called "Col CAPMAN."  I should point out that normally the prize sent away for is usually disappointing.  I would extend that to this metaphor.

Being promoted rapidly with no substance via service may prove to be rather disappointing.  For some, the road is more interesting that the destination, for others the road was ignored and the desintation was a tourist trap!!!

[Major Carrales]

There was no need for the "CAP grade is a joke" comment whatsoever.

Why? Because its essentially so true?

No, because it distracted from the intent of the post.  This topic was derailed by the fellow that is supposed to be preventing that.

In anycase, CAP grade has its place.  It is supposed to reflect your training in CAP.

I'm not going to go there with you Lt Col, Sir.  Because CAP grade will never have any meaning if such comments are continually made by CAP Officers and no action is ever taken to "beef up" what it means.

[MIKE]

I'm curious about the term "box top fast burner Lt Col".  I have an idea what it means, but not sure. I'm sorry, kinda dumb here sometimes.

Anybody can be a Lt Col if they send their box tops in (fulfill promotion requirements).  Fast burner implies that grade was earned with the minimum (or less) time in grade to earn each promotion.

[JC004]

I'm a 1st Lt for Life and I'm not a "unit level bloke."  I'm just stuck there because apparently PAWG hasn't figured out how to get AFIADL tests to people.  Maybe they're looking for "ECI" on the envelopes instead?

[lordmonar]

Major Carrales,

Why is a senior member sitting on a rank forever...any sort of a problem?

If you have a member of your squadron who needs professional development...you as the PD officer, Deputy Commander for Seniors or the Commander encourages him to get the training he needs.

If the guy is doing his job compentantly and happily...why do anything?

Running a squadron is hard enough without having to make up "up or out" rules.

Is a strong proactive PD getting SM a good thing?  Sure is...but so is that 1st Lt for life who just loves to push that paperwork around, run his ground team, mann teh adrio, drive the cadets, and a thousand other very valuable jobs.

I NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER, accuse a VOLUNTEER of being LAZY just to fill some stupid boxes and "earn" a useless promotion.

[Major Carrales]

I'm a 1st Lt for Life and I'm not a "unit level bloke."  I'm just stuck there because apparently PAWG hasn't figured out how to get AFIADL tests to people.  Maybe they're looking for "ECI" on the envelopes instead?

Ironically, I don't think badly of "unit go getters" that stay at that level and work for the unit.  I think, dare I bring it up, this might be what CAP NCOs should be.

[arajca]

Back to the topic...

I've seen it both ways and heard many arguments about it. I think Capt is a better holding point than 1st Lt, although 1st Lt for life is far better than 2d Lt for life, since the 1st Lt has at least obtained some level of skill training. Capt shows the member has some knowledge of CAP and how to work in the system (excluding insta-Capt's). Also, to many non-CAP, non-military types, either flavor of Lt is still in training and hasn't proven themselves as a leader yet.

If a 1st Lt for life is actively contributing to the unit, great. I have no problem with that. I do understand that not everyone can get weekends off to do SLS. I do not really think AFIADL 13 should be a stumbling block, since the course is fairly easy and study guides (unofficial)are readily available.

[Major Carrales]

I greatly value your input, thus I will correct the misunderstanding I detect in your post.  Poitn by point...with some input of my own.

Major Carrales,

Why is a senior member sitting on a rank forever...any sort of a problem?
If you have a member of your squadron who needs professional development...you as the PD officer, Deputy Commander for Seniors or the Commander encourages him to get the training he needs.

I don't think this is a PDO issue as it is a unit member's choice.  The people of which I speak are not denied Professional Development, they simply do not want to do it or see no use for it as seen from the prespective of what they want to do.

As a teacher in a public school I often "open doors" that students chose not to enter.  Thus, there are CAP officers that remain at 1st Lt or Captain because they feel that what they are doing (squadron logistics officer, Cadet person, local COMMO) is where their focus is, not attending SLS or CLC or RSC.

If the guy is doing his job compentantly and happily...why do anything?

Agreed, that is my point.  I have heard comments about these people ranging all over the gamut from your comment to the comment I made in the Cons section of my original post.

Running a squadron is hard enough without having to make up "up or out" rules.

Is a strong proactive PD getting SM a good thing?  Sure is...but so is that 1st Lt for life who just loves to push that paperwork around, run his ground team, mann teh adrio, drive the cadets, and a thousand other very valuable jobs.

Again we agree.  

I NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER, accuse a VOLUNTEER of being LAZY just to fill some stupid boxes and "earn" a useless promotion.

Agreed, maybe that is what I was hoping someone would say.  I have heard people get grilled for not getting promoted, sometimes to the point of bullying.  Some time just jokes about "1st Lt for Life" that are demeaning.

I think we are making a breakthrough on this thread.

[Major Carrales]

Back to the topic...

I've seen it both ways and heard many arguments about it. I think Capt is a better holding point than 1st Lt, although 1st Lt for life is far better than 2d Lt for life, since the 1st Lt has at least obtained some level of skill training. Capt shows the member has some knowledge of CAP and how to work in the system (excluding insta-Capt's). Also, to many non-CAP, non-military types, either flavor of Lt is still in training and hasn't proven themselves as a leader yet.

If a 1st Lt for life is actively contributing to the unit, great. I have no problem with that. I do understand that not everyone can get weekends off to do SLS. I do not really think AFIADL 13 should be a stumbling block, since the course is fairly easy and study guides (unofficial)are readily available.

Well spoken, Sir. 

As I pointed out before, CAP grade is designed to show some sort of progress (or status thereof) in the Professional Development program.  Thus, when you see a Major with wings, its a pilot who can be sought out for aviation expertise...or a Lt Col with ribbons that show this person knows CAP, its policies and its missions.

I also see the the 1st Lt that works for the squadron, steers clear of CAP politics and is a functional officer in the Squadron as the foundation of CAP.  A person committed to the service of the UNIT than to personal messages.