Misdemeanor

[SARDOC]

So..... Maybe I should tell my Commander about my Speeding Ticket  :angel:

Maybe you should - if you ever want a CAP driver's license, he'll know anyway.

Sure..... Go ahead and tell your CC.  At least your CC won't think you are a slouch for not getting a CAP DL and will know the reason behind you not getting one!

haha...  This just makes me think that we have members that can not drive a corporate vehicle because of their driving record.  We'll still let them fly a plane though.

[RiverAux]

Regarding the "the form requires it" argument, I would wonder just what the membership application form looked like at the time the member joined.  It changes over the years.  I honestly don't know whether the form I signed said anything about it back in the late 1990s. 

I also wouldn't have considered "theft" falling into a "moral turpitude" category. 

I probably do think it wise to clarify the regulation and require that reports of any arrests be reported.  I don't think I want a fellow arrested for murder serving in my squadron while out on bail.  Allow for membership suspension until the case is resolved and act accordingly afterwards. 

[Devil Doc]

Regarding the "the form requires it" argument, I would wonder just what the membership application form looked like at the time the member joined.  It changes over the years.  I honestly don't know whether the form I signed said anything about it back in the late 1990s. 

I also wouldn't have considered "theft" falling into a "moral turpitude" category. 

I probably do think it wise to clarify the regulation and require that reports of any arrests be reported.  I don't think I want a fellow arrested for murder serving in my squadron while out on bail.  Allow for membership suspension until the case is resolved and act accordingly afterwards.

What Type of Murder? 1st, 2nd or 3rd Degree or Manslaughter

[duffman1741]

Alright, I appreciate all the advice and opinions that have been put out there. So you all know, I'm not a cadet but a SM. Yeah I know I'm up a creek without a paddle, so you don't have to keep saying it. I originally posted on here looking for advice and some ideas of what to take to the board with me. Ever since getting out of the military I've struggled and when I found CAP, I dove head first into it. So it was no surprise when I dealt with the issue of being thrown in jail for the first time ever, I not go to the one place I felt in control of sorts. I'm not saying it like I want power, but the fact that I was able to get some work done, clear my head and try to sort things out. I wasn't planning on hiding anything from my commander, but I wasn't in the best mindset either. So I would appreciate any idea's you guys have with the way the regs are written. Also this is what happened concerning the arrest. I was a volunteer firefighter and I had been living at the fire station for a few weeks. I had some scrap metal in the back of my car, and I was taking it to the Station Commanders house in the morning. Well the local cop shows up, and see's I have the scrap metal. Well he automatically assumes I'm stealing. When he tries to get a hold of the station commander and can't, the department chief on duty shows up. He assumes I'm lying and I get arrested. Nothing was stolen, nothing even left the property. But I was charged with theft under $500. So come Thursday I have my meeting and I'm trying to stay in CAP. So anything that might help I would appreciate.

[Private Investigator]

... Ever since getting out of the military I've struggled ...

You should check into local Veteran programs and your local American Legion Post. Good luck and thank you for your service.

[jimmydeanno]

So the big question is were you convicted?  Arrested and charged, with the charges dropped is a lot different than arrested, tried, and convicted.

[Flying Pig]

So during all of this, the arrest, the case running its course etc etc, the "station commander" never showed up to vouch that you were taking the stuff to his house?

[duffman1741]

No, I was left hanging high and dry because of the way it looked.

[lordmonar]

Alright, I appreciate all the advice and opinions that have been put out there. So you all know, I'm not a cadet but a SM. Yeah I know I'm up a creek without a paddle, so you don't have to keep saying it. I originally posted on here looking for advice and some ideas of what to take to the board with me. Ever since getting out of the military I've struggled and when I found CAP, I dove head first into it. So it was no surprise when I dealt with the issue of being thrown in jail for the first time ever, I not go to the one place I felt in control of sorts. I'm not saying it like I want power, but the fact that I was able to get some work done, clear my head and try to sort things out. I wasn't planning on hiding anything from my commander, but I wasn't in the best mindset either. So I would appreciate any idea's you guys have with the way the regs are written. Also this is what happened concerning the arrest. I was a volunteer firefighter and I had been living at the fire station for a few weeks. I had some scrap metal in the back of my car, and I was taking it to the Station Commanders house in the morning. Well the local cop shows up, and see's I have the scrap metal. Well he automatically assumes I'm stealing. When he tries to get a hold of the station commander and can't, the department chief on duty shows up. He assumes I'm lying and I get arrested. Nothing was stolen, nothing even left the property. But I was charged with theft under $500. So come Thursday I have my meeting and I'm trying to stay in CAP. So anything that might help I would appreciate.

On the CAP side (and I guess on the police side as well)....have the station commander come to the board meeting with you.  Let him have a chance to vouch for you.

I am assuming that this is not a 2b appeals board....but a local board that the squadron commander cobbled together to figure out what to do with you.

If you WERE to be 2b'ed then there is an appeals process that you can use to try to resolve the issue.

Bottom line though......what does your commander believe to be true.   If he does not think that need to be in his squadron or in CAP then it is his DUTY to 2b you.   There are other routes he can take as well....but let's assume for the moment he does not think they are appropriate.

In that case once you have been formally notified you are 2b'ed, you are out of CAP....but you have 30 days (IIRC) to appeal to the next level of command (group/wing for a squadron 2b).  The wing commander then must convene an appeals board to look at the issue.  You have the right cross examine any witness brought against you and you have the right present your own witnesses.

If you fail at that level....your only recorse will be to appeal to the MARB. 

[Devil Doc]

No, I was left hanging high and dry because of the way it looked.

WOW, Sounds kinda Sketchy? Why wouldn't a "Fire Chief" vouch to get his "Comrade" out of trouble? Sounds like something else. If you have been convicted etc, and you havnt gone to court yet, then you should be ok.

[duffman1741]

Well my Commander didn't want to do a local board, she went and 2b'ed already. That meeting is on thurday night.

[JeffDG]

Well my Commander didn't want to do a local board, she went and 2b'ed already. That meeting is on thurday night.

Your commander is under no obligation to do a local board.

So, is Thursday your appeal with Group? 

[duffman1741]

I know and yes it is.

[jimmydeanno]

I'm waiting for the punchline.  I feel like there is an important piece of info missing. 

Did you get convicted? If so, why wasn't the station commander called as a witness?

If you weren't convicted, there isn't really an issue, is there?

Are you no longer on the FD because of this incident?  If not, there is more to this than you are letting on. 

[duffman1741]

I'm paying court cost and everything yes. Also it didn't go to trial or anything. It was simply heard in front of a judge with my public defender. No I'm not with the department anymore and the court went completely off the officers report. The officer didn't show up to hearing either.

[Eclipse]

This just makes me think that we have members that can not drive a corporate vehicle because of their driving record.  We'll still let them fly a plane though.

We do and not necessarily.

[NCRblues]

Also it didn't go to trial or anything. It was simply heard in front of a judge with my public defender.

So, you went before a judge, with a lawyer, and are paying court costs. Yup, that's very much "trail".

[Flying Pig]

I'm paying court cost and everything yes. Also it didn't go to trial or anything. It was simply heard in front of a judge with my public defender. No I'm not with the department anymore and the court went completely off the officers report. The officer didn't show up to hearing either.

Ahhhhhh.....so you plead guilty then. 

[lordmonar]

I'm paying court cost and everything yes. Also it didn't go to trial or anything. It was simply heard in front of a judge with my public defender. No I'm not with the department anymore and the court went completely off the officers report. The officer didn't show up to hearing either.

So.....you were convicted?  Yes/No?

[mwewing]

I had some scrap metal in the back of my car, and I was taking it to the Station Commanders house in the morning. Well the local cop shows up, and see's I have the scrap metal. Well he automatically assumes I'm stealing.

Where I come from, the police wouldn't be looking inside a fire fighter's truck when they stop by the station, and wouldn't automatically assume any scrap metal was stolen. I understand the relationship may be different where you live, but I find it hard to believe the officer arrested you based on his assumptions alone. I find it even more suspect that you were held, charged, and it seems convicted, based only on 1 officer's assumption.

When he tries to get a hold of the station commander and can't, the department chief on duty shows up. He assumes I'm lying and I get arrested. Nothing was stolen, nothing even left the property. But I was charged with theft under $500.

As others have asked, and you haven't answered: Why hasn't the station commander come to your aid? I am sure he would have been consulted prior to your termination from the fire department. I would think he would have been a valuable witness to bring during any court proceeding. In fact, I would think a prosecutor would have spoken with him prior to bringing a case against you. If what you are saying is true, this would have been cleared up almost immediately. It may not have prevented your arrest, but it should certainly have prevented any conviction or termination from the fire department.

I'm paying court cost and everything yes. Also it didn't go to trial or anything. It was simply heard in front of a judge with my public defender. No I'm not with the department anymore and the court went completely off the officers report. The officer didn't show up to hearing either.

If you are paying court costs, and the case was heard by a judge... it sounds like a conviction to me. It sounds like your attorney suggested you plead guilty in exchange for a favorable sentence. Where I live, if you plead guilty, there is very little reason for the officer to testify. You may not have even seen him if your court has a private area for officers to wait while their cases are being handled.

Well my Commander didn't want to do a local board, she went and 2b'ed already. That meeting is on thurday night.

Your commander is under no obligation to hold a board before making her decision. Now it sounds like this Thursday night meeting is your appeal to the group/wing level. You seem to be looking for advice on what/how to present to this board on Thursday. Unfortunately, that is not possible based on the shoddy information you have given us thus far. You haven't even confirmed for anyone if you have been convicted or not... which is a key part of this whole situation. I must also be honest with you. I don't think you have given us a complete and true story here. While you are under no obligation to share the details with us, you need to understand that the caliber of our advice will only be as good as the information you share. I will also say that if you were this unhelpful when sharing information with your commander it is little wonder she chose a 2B action for you. I too will only give people so many opportunities to cooperate before making my decision based on the available facts.

There are many people here who can provide you excellent advice. Some have decades in the organization, some are commanders, some are lawyers, some have been part of a 2B process and/or appeal before. If you decide you want their advice, please start being honest and share complete information. Start by stating if you have been convicted. If you were convicted, explain why the stolen scrap metal was in your vehicle. If you didn't know it was stolen, explain why. Explain why the station commander didn't come to your aide during this process. Explain what basis was used for your termination from the fire department, or why you chose to resign in lieu of termination. Give more details regarding the 2B, including the specific things the commander used to justify it. If she 2Bed you for the conviction and you weren't convicted... there is your argument. If the 2B was a result of other factors not limited to this incident, that will be very important as well.

Based on what I gather from the bits of fact you have shared, I think you need to throw yourself on the mercy of your commander and this board on Thursday. You need to eat a big slice of humble pie, take ownership of your mistakes, share the complete truth, and beg for another chance. Its probably too late for that, but unless there are helpful facts you are withholding, I think its your only shot.

Good Luck!