Deposits for uniforms

[RogueLeader]

When I was a squadron CC,we usally could get cadets into.uniforms at no cost to the cadet. On one occasion we did not have shoes for a cadet. We provided cadet and parent with info on where to purchase and her response"I should not have to buy these,cant you?"

I have found that members who purchase their own stuff tend to take care of it better.

On the first meeting that a cadet attends, they and their parents get the usual what to expect from us, here's what we expect from you deal.  Part of that is uniforms, and that while we try to supply what we can, if we can not, then the expectation is that they are expected to acquire it.  I haven't had anyone tell me that our unit should pay the money for it.  Now, some members do purchase things for the unit, but we tell people that nothing is guaranteed.

[Spaceman3750]

I have never herd about anyone asking for a deposit for uniforms.
But the more I sit here and think about it.......it does have some merit.

Pros: 
A) It establishes to the cadet that the uniforms are valuable.
B) It will help in the recovery of said uniforms.
C) If people walk with said uniforms....it is another source of revenue for the unit.

Cons:
A) We are adding more up-front costs to the member.
B) We have to track and account for that deposit.
C) We have to make sure we keep sufficient funds on hand to pay back a mass exodus worst case scenario.

How would this work with WBP? I can't just call up the wing administrator and ask her to cut a check. I either have to have a receipt for reimbursement, or be arranging a cash advance, for which I will be expected to provide receipts and return unused funds.

[lordmonar]

Making a receipt is fairly easy.

The member returns the uniform, you submit your check request to WBP.

[THRAWN]

Making a receipt is fairly easy.

The member returns the uniform, you submit your check request to WBP.

Can you PLEASE stop making things easier than they have to be?

[Pedfltmed22]

We have a booster club that helps with our funding so that's not the issue. We just seem to be going through uniforms like crazy. Both BDU's and Blues. Coats and Dress Coats(not sure of the proper term). Our booster club president as well as the logistics officer suggested the  deposit as a way to make sure we got back the uniforms. From what I have been reading it does not seem like its a good idea.

[RogueLeader]

I won't say that a deposit system won't work, or that it is necessarily a bad idea.  Particularly if cadets are getting brand new uniform items and not sticking around.  I would definitely keep those deposits noted on your units Finance books.  Or, cut your unit out of it, and let your Booster Club deal with those items and deposits. 
Cadet:  I need a complete Blues Uniform.
Supply Officer:  Please go see Mr. Jones.
Mr Jones: I need a deposit of $45.
Cadet: Here is your deposit.
Mr Jones: Here is your Blues
. . .
Commander: Great looking uniform:
Cadet: Thank you, Sir.
. . . .
Cadet: Mr Jones, Can I get my deposit back?
Mr Jones: Thank you for the Blues back in serviceable condition, here are your $45.

As opposed to the money going into Wing Banker Program, and keeping track of it in your budget, which would change.  Having to get Finance Committee approval anytime a deposit has to go back, then wait for a check to get cut.

[lordmonar]

They should not be used to circumvent WBP operations.

Whether you keep track of the deposits in you budget or your booster club....you still got to keep track of it.
And getting the financial committee's approval should take like 3 seconds.
Wing cuts the check and mails it directly to the ex-member.

[Spam]

Second that wise advice.  You can get yourself in real trouble, quickly, by using booster clubs for normal business operations for the unit.  Keep the streams separated and only use booster clubs for those activities specifically authorized for them per the regs.


CAPR 173-4 16 DECEMBER 2014 (Fund Raising) governs booster clubs, while CAPR 173-1 15 NOVEMBER 2012 governs financial procedures and accounting. 173-4 specifically prohibits transfer of unit funds to booster clubs (citation: Section 16.g) so any such back and forth is expressly against policy.


Lordmonar is on target: finance committee meetings can, if run right, be done quickly and efficiently. I held one last night in the parking lot after opening while observing my A Flight drilling with rifles... we held a quick audit of members to determine a quorum, (3 of my 4 Dept. Heads, plus me, plus my FM), reviewed old action items, discussed outstanding purchase needs (a few hundred for a prototype tent, a few hundred for some go-bag kits for the truck, etc.) then polled for dept. needs, verbally voted on checks to be cut, and my FM went off to type up his notes. 6 minutes or so, total. Plus, check requests for $45 don't require a full Finance Committee authorization any ways, just have the FM put the name and address on the form and pull that trigger, should have a check mailed direct to the member in a week or two.


If you must establish a deposit, then you should accept the necessary burden on the FM of maintaining and tracking a running subaccount balance for reserves in your annual financial plan, should you have a bunch of cadets graduate/move and push a "run on the bank". Don't get in trouble short cutting the wing banker program - booster clubs are for fund raising - ONE WAY TRANSFERS, period.


V/R
Spam

[Pedfltmed22]

So much to learn about being a commander and so little time.....wow

[Hyperion]

I created a supply form to fill out for anyone who requests uniform items. We keep the form, unsigned, and make alterations with a pencil whenever necessary. When the member leaves the unit. and everything has been returned, the officer and person in question sign off at the bottom declaring everything is accounted for.



BDUs are unisex, but ABUs are not, so that's why the Sex category is included (so I don't have to edit it in the future because I'm lazy). You can just ignore it for now.

If anyone would like the original sized PDF then please let me know.

[Mitchell 1969]

Law enforcement? I would feel like a jerk calling the police over a uniform.  Unless a parent is signing a contractural agreement, the law isn't on CAP's side, minors can't enter into contracts and it doesn't pass the smell test as far as civil or criminal precedence.

As an LEO we can't even go after our own Explorers that don't return their uniforms. There's an almost minuscule chance they'd go after someone for a CAP uniform.

Less than minuscule.

Laws vary from state to state, but theft generally has these elements:

Taking; carrying away; of the property of another; with intent to permanently deprive.

Were a LEO to be called to a CAP meeting to "investigate" the "theft" of uniforms, s/he would look to see if the elements are met, learning quickly that there was no "taking," as the property wasn't taken, it was loaned. There would also be an absence of intent to permanently deprive. In short, the whole deal reeks of, at best, failure to return borrowed property, a civil matter. LEO could ask to see issue forms, receipts, letters sent to recover the property etc., but I doubt that any of it would sway a LEO to take a theft report and get detectives involved.  For one thing, there would probably not be any document specifying the loan period, and I doubt that there would be anything resembling a valid contract.  (Even overdue rental cars don't get reported as stolen until a fixed time has elapsed, usually 30 days. Anything prior to that is simply failure to follow contract terms). More likely the squadron commander would receive a suggestion to seek legal counsel.

[Luis R. Ramos]

If I were a LEO, I certainly would consider no response to repeated requests to return some borrowed stuff as "intent to permanently deprive..."

[THRAWN]

If I were a LEO, I certainly would consider no response to repeated requests to return some borrowed stuff as "intent to permanently deprive..."

And you would be partially correct. However, with out the other two elements, there is no crime.

[Damron]

"If a cadet leaves the program during the first year the unit commander should make an effort to retrieve the uniform from the cadet."


Make an effort and you've satisfied the regulation. 

[Al Sayre]

I would hazard a guess that the bad press that could be garnered by trying to get a uniform back though law enforcement involvement is hardly worth the cost,  Can you see the headlines:  "Civil Air Patrol has 14 year old arrested for $20 used uniform."  Not a good idea...

[Garibaldi]

I would hazard a guess that the bad press that could be garnered by trying to get a uniform back though law enforcement involvement is hardly worth the cost,  Can you see the headlines:  "Civil Air Patrol has 14 year old arrested for $20 used uniform."  Not a good idea...

Better than "Two CAP cadets involved in deadly love triangle." And I have heard of a Spaatz cadet on the run in Mexico trying to avoid a grand theft auto rap.

[THRAWN]

I would hazard a guess that the bad press that could be garnered by trying to get a uniform back though law enforcement involvement is hardly worth the cost,  Can you see the headlines:  "Civil Air Patrol has 14 year old arrested for $20 used uniform."  Not a good idea...

Better than "Two CAP cadets involved in deadly love triangle." And I have heard of a Spaatz cadet on the run in Mexico trying to avoid a grand theft auto rap.

Or "Former LA Wing Cadet assassinates President..."

[Garibaldi]

I would hazard a guess that the bad press that could be garnered by trying to get a uniform back though law enforcement involvement is hardly worth the cost,  Can you see the headlines:  "Civil Air Patrol has 14 year old arrested for $20 used uniform."  Not a good idea...

Better than "Two CAP cadets involved in deadly love triangle." And I have heard of a Spaatz cadet on the run in Mexico trying to avoid a grand theft auto rap.

Or "Former LA Wing Cadet assassinates President..."

Yeah...kind of forgot that one. I'd much rather see headlines like "Former CAP cadet and AF Fighter pilot nurses shot-up A-10 back to safety" and "Former CAP cadet flies high in Air Force Thunderbirds". And "Former CAP Cadet and current Air Force Three-star to head up AF Logistics". And "Former CAP cadet and Air Force Colonel returns from ISS, remains active in Texas CAP unit"

All true stories.

[NIN]

I would hazard a guess that the bad press that could be garnered by trying to get a uniform back though law enforcement involvement is hardly worth the cost,  Can you see the headlines:  "Civil Air Patrol has 14 year old arrested for $20 used uniform."  Not a good idea...

I seem to recall a situation in the early 1990s with a deputy sheriff showing up to query a kid about property he was issued....

(My hazy memory says that the young man quit CAP in a huff over something and when asked to return the field gear he was issued, he or his parents said "Screw you, we sold all that crap to the local surplus store and there's not a thing you can do about it!"  The nice deputy standing on their front porch holding a copy of a hand-receipt and a report of stolen property changed quite a few minds. The very next week all the stuff was in a pile at the unit meeting)

Then again:

Uniform Return Agreement

Civil Air Patrol is often able to obtain some uniform components for use by active Cadets. As these become available, the Squadron will provide them to Cadets on an as-needed and as-available basis. Often, these uniform components include the trousers and shirt for the blues and/or BDU (utility) uniforms. Sometimes, other items are available as well. All uniform items provided to Cadets free of charge by Civil Air Patrol must be returned if the Cadet decides to become inactive in the cadet program.

Cadets and their parents must agree to return uniform items to Civil Air Patrol when those items are no longer being used by the Cadet for Civil Air Patrol purposes.

I am applying for membership in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program. I acknowledge that Civil Air Patrol may provide me with uniform items to use during my participation in the Civil Air Patrol program. I agree to return these items to Civil Air Patrol upon request, and, in any case, upon deciding to end my participation in the Civil Air Patrol program.
         
________________________             _________________________________
Cadet's Name (printed)                   Cadet's Signature

I am the parent/guardian of the above-named Civil Air Patrol Cadet applicant. I acknowledge that Civil Air Patrol may provide my son/daughter with uniform items to use during his/her participation in the Civil Air Patrol program. I agree to return these items to Civil Air Patrol upon request, and, in any case, upon my son/daughter deciding to end his/her participation in the Civil Air Patrol program.

_________________________      ________________________________   
Parent/Guardian Name (printed)      Parent/Guardian Signature

It might not be tremendously "enforceable," but it sets an expectation level with the parents.

         

[Luis R. Ramos]

Make an effort as in "I got in my car to recover the stuff but the car did not start?"