SER National Commander's Unit Citation Does anyone know correct dates?

[SarDragon]

The original PA had several awards on it, including some individual awards, and three or four wing level Unit Commendations. Coming up with several thousand names, and putting them all on the PA, was an unreasonable task.

[DBlair]

What I've seen is an excerpt from a PA (actually the last page, signed. with the specific award referenced), including the award to my wing.  That was distributed (from my reading of the e-mail) to Group & Squadron commanders, and cc'd to the Wing Staff.  Distribution below that level is the responsibility of the commanders (group and squadrons) involved.

The last Unit Citation (regular flavor) that was awarded to FLWG was sent out via email to all members and all units. It seems that FLWG Hq is wanting to handle the National Commander's Unit Citation in the same manner, but Wing Hq still has not received the PA paperwork for it to forward to the membership. It's stuck in a "...we know we were awarded it, but we have no paperwork to prove it..." sort of situation. Perhaps I'll contact NHQ to help connect things.

[Eclipse]

The original PA had several awards on it, including some individual awards, and three or four wing level Unit Commendations. Coming up with several thousand names, and putting them all on the PA, was an unreasonable task.

I disagree - we already discussed in another thread how simple this would be to accomplish.

The Katrina PA encompassed several 3-4 different regions, a bunch of wings and in excess of 500 Names, yet they seemed able to produce and distribute it.

Unit CC's send their list to the group, group to wing, wing to region, done.

This is much like National Commander's of the past who would hand out commendation ribbons and then never document them, leaving the recipient to be on the defensive the rest of their CAP career.

[jimmydeanno]

Yep, half the stuff I have on, I get to be defensive about occasionally.  But, it isn't so much that the records were never produced, but my squadron commander threw away my records about 5 years too early when I transferred to senior membership.

[SarDragon]

The original PA had several awards on it, including some individual awards, and three or four wing level Unit Commendations. Coming up with several thousand names, and putting them all on the PA, was an unreasonable task.

I disagree - we already discussed in another thread how simple this would be to accomplish.

The Katrina PA encompassed several 3-4 different regions, a bunch of wings and in excess of 500 Names, yet they seemed able to produce and distribute it.

Unit CC's send their list to the group, group to wing, wing to region, done.

This is much like National Commander's of the past who would hand out commendation ribbons and then never document them, leaving the recipient to be on the defensive the rest of their CAP career.

This was 2003. The award effort was entirely top-down. No one at the squadron level knew anything about any UCA until it was announced at the Wing Conference that year. Your method should work, if the proper requests are made ahead of the announcement.

[starshippe]

   in answer to dblair....

   no, i have no documentation other than that contained on this thread.
   i was told of the award by someone who was there during the presentation.

bill

[brenaud]

The original PA had several awards on it, including some individual awards, and three or four wing level Unit Commendations. Coming up with several thousand names, and putting them all on the PA, was an unreasonable task.

I disagree - we already discussed in another thread how simple this would be to accomplish.

The Katrina PA encompassed several 3-4 different regions, a bunch of wings and in excess of 500 Names, yet they seemed able to produce and distribute it.

Unit CC's send their list to the group, group to wing, wing to region, done.

This is much like National Commander's of the past who would hand out commendation ribbons and then never document them, leaving the recipient to be on the defensive the rest of their CAP career.

Caveat before I start...I tend to nitpick about paperwork.  Ask anyone who works with/deals with me with any regularity.  (JeffDG can confirm)

I wouldn't say it's unreasonable, but I might argue it's unnecessary.  The criterion for the award is membership in the Wing, so the subordinate commanders really don't need to verify that someone met some standard of contribution.  They'd only need to confirm who was a member.  Wing should already have access to this via e-Services.  So, with that it'd be really easy to do a form letter PA that included everyone.  In reality, they don't really need the list as proof of who was a member, because the member reports in e-Services contain membership/transfer information now.

That said, in this case, Wing is not the approving authority.  The "actual" authorization is the personnel action from National HQ and that (at least in my opinion) is what should go in each personnel file.  That said, it might make sense to write up a memo with the paperwork from NHQ attached.  The memo could simply clarify that all members of the wing during the period are authorized the award per the attachment and the current R39-3.  Distribution should be ?WG/ALL (fill in the appropriate state abbreviation for ?).  It could be an email blast to all members, it could (/should) be top-down through the chain of command, it could also be posted on a Wing website (I don't think there are any major issues with that...no personal information, and it's public knowledge that the award was made). 

Were the Katrina/KY PAs that listed everyone individual awards or unit citations (of either flavor)?  If they were individual then I agree that's a totally different ballgame and all personnel should be listed.  TNWG did that for our response to the severe storms back in April.

As far as getting the documentation, I think you're on the right track...work through your Wing HQ to National.  Hopefully that'll work.  (If not perhaps wings can talk to each other & pass the info, although I wouldn't want to speak for someone else/seem to sideswipe the proper channels/etc.).  Good luck & keep us posted.

[Eclipse]

The criterion for the award is membership in the Wing, so the subordinate commanders really don't need to verify that someone met some standard of contribution.

Which as we discussed before, means that every empty shirt and patron member got a dec as well.

Yes, the Katrina and KY PA's were for Nat Comm Comms, DR-V's and higher decs for the people involved, not the wings.

[Al Sayre]

Here is a copy of the citation, received directly from SER/CC. 

[starshippe]

   well, its certainly nice to see the real mccoy. thanks for posting that. there is no doubt about those dates.
   it seems like it would need something, like a name or signature or notary stamp or cap seal of some sort, to make it official.
   anyway, we have the thread question resolved.
   by the way if u order this from the v place, make sure u get the correct ribbon. they were going to send me the cap0725a ribbon. the correct ribbon is the cap0733.

thanks again,

bill

[Al Sayre]

If I can remember, I'll scan the PA next time I get to HQ...

[DBlair]

If I can remember, I'll scan the PA next time I get to HQ...

Thank you, that would be very much appreciated!