Military Airlift

[Kayll'b]

I've heard roumers that CAP members can get military airlifts to activities, I also found a form and a regulation on online.

Is this actually possible, and how dificult would it be to get one?

[arajca]

In theory and on paper it's possible. However, I haven't heard of any CAP members getting it in YEARS.

[abdsp51]

It is possible yes, however alot of hoops have to jumped through.  The likelyhood of it happening this day in age with everything going on,  not happening.

[PHall]

It is possible but the only times I've seen it happen there was a member of the military unit providing the airlift who was doing the coordination.
I know the two times I made it happen I used a lot of favors that the Current Ops and Scheduling Shop guys owed me.
And we still had trouble with the Air Force Reserve Operations Center approving the flight..

[Eclipse]

Military Orientation Rides (which by definition begin and end at the same location, and usually in a C-130, Fueler or helo) happen
relatively frequently, but are almost always based on a relationship between a member and a local unit (i.e. Jim's in the Guard and
knows a guy).

Airlift isn't going to happen for a number of reasons.

CAP-USAF doesn't like them, the aircraft are simply not available on a consistent basis any more, but worse,
as happens all too frequently, if an aircraft breaks for any reason, the group is now stuck there until it's fixed or
they find other means home.

I've had these conversations over the years, and the couple I know about wound up getting people in trouble
as they had not gone through the proper channels, and not only CAP people, but the military crews as well.

[Johnny Yuma]

Used to be a thing until the mid-late 80's, especially to National Boards. This was back when we had real AF field grade liaison with NCO's at each wing.

Last one I remember was in 1988 during the KSWG encampment at McConnell. One of the barracks was ransacked and robbed while cadets were away for graduation practice well away from the encampment area. Several cadets had airline tickets stolen and I remember the Wing LO and his NCO were scrambling to arrange airlift for a couple of them with the KC135 unit on base.

[Mitchell 1969]

There was a time where USAF had regular shuttle flights from base to base. It was possible to ask the CAP Wing Liaison Officer to cut orders allowing space available rides ("Space A") on those. I used them a few times in the 60's and 70's.

Also, the LO was often able to make a few calls to see who had extra seats on training flights. Our LO got me a seat on a C-130 training flight from March AFB in CA to Dallas Naval Air Station. I even got to fly right seat in it for about an hour. They landed at Dallas NAS, dropped me off and kept going. (I was attending Advanced Cadet Leadership Symposium). A few days later I used my LO issued travel authorization to catch a USMC C-130 to MCAS El Toro, in CA.

On my rides to/from Dallas, I was the only CAP member, a C/Lt Col. No Seniors involved. On the shuttle rides, I rarely saw a Senior.

Those were good days. But the flights have been cut way back, bases closed and Space A seats are scarce.

I think today's CAP members will rarely see Space A orders, let alone Space A seats, so I wouldn't give much hope to catching one of those rides.


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[Fester]

If memory serves me, I hopped a C-130 from Dallas NAS or NAS JRB Ft. Worth to Harlingen, TX with a large group of TX WG Members in 97 for the Wing Conference in South Padre Island that year.

[TheSkyHornet]

Sounds like I joined CAP in the wrong era... 

[Flying Pig]

Old war story, my between 88-92 my Sq went to NCC 3x.  All 3 times we flew on a C130 from March ARB -> Maxwell AFB.   Talk about rollin in like the boss!   Each time we returned, the CAWG commander was waiting for us at the back ramp of the plane handing each one of us a Commanders Commendation Medal as we stepped off. 

[N6RVT]

Sounds like I joined CAP in the wrong era... 

Its been so long I don't remember many details, but there used to be a C-137 that went from El Toro to Lejune (A Marine 707 of all things) and back once a week.  You could get cross country Space-A.  I was full time USAR at the time and could always get a ride but there it was usually mostly empty seats going East.  Going West it usually had a freshly graduated Basic in it, but even so you could get a seat as long as you didn't mind being in a jetliner full of teenage Marines for 6 hours.

They even had a special Marine Stewardess uniform for the thing.

[NIN]

Into the 90s it was still a thing, and "National Board Airlift" was a thing for those deemed "important enough to go to the National Board meeting." (it wasn't the National Conference that it is today)

We requested airlift for our summer encampment in 1991 at Wright Patterson AFB.  (NVM that WPAFB was approximately the same driving distance a usual encampment site for a large percentage of our membership, many of whom, like the staff, just drove down) 

Lots of cadets from the northern and western parts of the state drove all the way over to Selfridge ANGB and met a Herk headed south that shuttled a pretty substantial number of the Basic Cadets, ahem, students to Wright-Patt.  As I recall, there were two sorties down on the first day, and two sorties home at the end of the week. (I was one of the 44pax bus drivers that met the airplanes. Good times watching a bunch of disoriented cadets step off the ramp into the bright sunlight to be met by the cadre..)

Arranging those sorties required some horse-trading on the part of the LO.

[754837]

A bunch of us (cadets & seniors) boarded a C-130 from Tinker AFB, Oklahoma City, flew to Navy Dallas, picked up more CAP members, flew to Ellington AFB, near Houston, picked up more and then finished up at Little Rock AFB.  This was to attend a Southwest Regional Conference in the mid to late 1970's.  As a cadet, this was pretty cool!

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I got C-130 transport from McGuire (NJ) to COS at Maxwell in the 80's.

It was cool to start. Got less so after a few hours.

[Mitchell 1969]

I got C-130 transport from McGuire (NJ) to COS at Maxwell in the 80's.

It was cool to start. Got less so after a few hours.

Yes, a few hours in a C-130 requires effort to enjoy. But we had it easy. I saw several RNZAF C-130s transiting March AFB. (I stopped and talked to passengers and crew, as I had been to NZ on IACE. I always ran into somebody I knew or a friend of somebody I knew).

Their flight was from NZ to Fiji, to Hawaii, to March AFB, to the East Coast, to the UK. On the way home, they just kept going. Airline seats for women and children dependents, but RNZAF members sat sideways.

On a CAP note: We flew from Norton AFB to Hamilton AFB, then to Stillwater OK on the ubiquitous T-29 (I think every Region LO had one). After getting our pilots licenses at Stillwater, we were driven to Tinker AFB, where we were to be picked up by...somebody. After waiting an hour, we found out we would be picked up by USAF, transporting COS cadets westward. In a C-118.

I had no idea what a C-118 was. Turns out it was a DC-6, one of the last ones in USAF inventory.

Good times.


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[THRAWN]

I got C-130 transport from McGuire (NJ) to COS at Maxwell in the 80's.

It was cool to start. Got less so after a few hours.

What? Nothing like seeing the world in a four fan trash can....been on every frame in the AMC inventory and the worst was the 135. I am a lifelong plane nut but the screech of those engines still makes me want to go the NIN route...

[PHall]

I got C-130 transport from McGuire (NJ) to COS at Maxwell in the 80's.

It was cool to start. Got less so after a few hours.

What? Nothing like seeing the world in a four fan trash can....been on every frame in the AMC inventory and the worst was the 135. I am a lifelong plane nut but the screech of those engines still makes me want to go the NIN route...

Must have been an A or E model because the CFM-56's on the R model are pretty darn quiet.

[SarDragon]

As related to me by a long departed shipmate, Dennis, what has to be one of the worst ferry flights ever -

It was in a VXE-6 C-130 (Think Operation Deep Freeze) that brought the first bunch of penguins to the San Diego Zoo. They flew from New Zealand to San Diego International Airport (exact itinerary forgotten). The ECU was on full cold all the way. By the time they got to SD, everyone, crew and pax, were miserable. After they landed and taxied to wherever, they dropped the ramp, and out straggled cute little waddley birds, and a group of sailors dressed in parkas, in June. (Remember it was winter when they left NZ.) The reception crowd was happy, until the wind shifted, and they became downwind of the plane. All's well that ends well.
It took the crew two days to hose out all the penguin poop, and supposedly, they never ever entirely got rid of the smell.

[Lord of the North]

I'll call you C-135 and raise you a C-124 on a flight to  Elmendorf AFB from Hamilton AFB and return

[GaryVC]

I have 1700 hours in KC-135s (A and Q models with the old engines) and 1100 in EC-135Js. The EC-135s had different engines and I expected them to be quieter but there wasn't a significant difference. I think that most of what we heard in the cockpit was "wind" noise.

[PHall]

I have 1700 hours in KC-135s (A and Q models with the old engines) and 1100 in EC-135Js. The EC-135s had different engines and I expected them to be quieter but there wasn't a significant difference. I think that most of what we heard in the cockpit was "wind" noise.

Depends on which model of EC you're talking about. Some like the EC-135A, EC-135G and EC-135L still had J57's.
The EC-135C, EC-135J and the EC-135H after they were reengined had TF-33's.
And yes there was a fair amount of "wind" noise in the cockpit but the air conditioning system made a lot of noise too!
The air cycle machine put out a fairly high pitched howl that if you were seated near the over wing hatch could be heard and felt even in flight.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Talk about resurrecting memories.  As a cadet in the early 1960's  we flew from Birmingham, Al to Maxwell AFB (about a 45 minute flight) for Summer Encampment in a C-47.  Wednesday was the big day at encampment as all the cadets spent a half day on the rifle range shooting M-1 Carbines.  The last day top scoring cadets received T-37 or T-33 rides.

[PHall]

And these days we're happy if we can get a couple of UH-60's for O-rides at encampment.

[Spam]

I dunno, guys. We're flying cadets on C-130s etc. every year and have been for years.


Legacy C-130H2s out of Dobbins (94AW) as well as brand new HC-130J Combat King IIs (the search and rescue C-130s) out of Moody.  So, all 3 components: Reserve, Guard, and Active Duty are flying our cadets. Plus the odd helo, etc. (I almost had an MH-60G gunship last summer at encampment and will keep trying for that). I even got groups of cadets in to fly the F-22 simulators at Lockheed a few years ago.


Thing is, our CAP-USAF side... really didn't help much at all. You have to hit the phones yourself and be persistent and polite. Have your flight manifest and any waivers filled out properly and have a prioritized pax manifest with fill ins for no shows. Start working months ahead with the units. Follow up nicely with a thank you (pic, plaque, something) to show the appreciation of the cadets, and make sure you get the names of the aircrew and mention them by name in a thank you email through your Wing/CC to their (USAF) Wing/CC to get them credit. Long term, it builds a good relationship.


R/s
Spam

[AlphaSigOU]

Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was a cadink... we hopped on a DC ANG T-43A from Homestead ARB (it was FB back then) to Columbus AFB and finally to Laughlin AFB for the ATC Familiarization Course (ATCFC) aboard T-43A 72-0284, which later became one of the JANET Air shuttles.


Coming back, a higher-priority tasking dumped us at West Palm Beach International Airport (PBI/KPBI) and so our parents had to drove nearly 100 miles to pick us up.

[Eclipse]

I dunno, guys. We're flying cadets on C-130s etc. every year and have been for years.

Yes, but not airlift, only O-rides.

[PHall]

I dunno, guys. We're flying cadets on C-130s etc. every year and have been for years.

Yes, but not airlift, only O-rides.

He does have a point.

[Spam]

Ah, I see what you mean. 

Yeah, we did have a couple of units who were using the scheduled Reservist support round robin flight from Atlanta - Charleston - Jax. They took their units to Charleston to tour the USS Yorktown, or Pcola to the Museum.  Then I heard they discontinued the weekend relo flight for reservists four years ago or so, and now our units drive.

Which isn't to say that it cant happen again. I had approval three years ago to fly a C-130 load of cadets to WPAFB to the Museum, with a one night RON, but the sticking point was the cost for billeting. Had we gotten in the 100K donation then that we got last year, it would have been a GO. Billeting was the only problem, not airlift.

Also, just thought of this; PRWG routinely flies up to events on a PR ANG C-130; I saw them a year or so ago using one.

V/r
Spam

[PHall]

Ah, I see what you mean. 

Yeah, we did have a couple of units who were using the scheduled Reservist support round robin flight from Atlanta - Charleston - Jax. They took their units to Charleston to tour the USS Yorktown, or Pcola to the Museum.  Then I heard they discontinued the weekend relo flight for reservists four years ago or so, and now our units drive.

Which isn't to say that it cant happen again. I had approval three years ago to fly a C-130 load of cadets to WPAFB to the Museum, with a one night RON, but the sticking point was the cost for billeting. Had we gotten in the 100K donation then that we got last year, it would have been a GO. Billeting was the only problem, not airlift.

Also, just thought of this; PRWG routinely flies up to events on a PR ANG C-130; I saw them a year or so ago using one.

V/r
Spam

PR ANG no longer has C-130's. They currently have a non-flying mission now.