Chaplain Problem

[Chappie]

This is item 12 in the Memorandum of Agreement signed by the Chief of the USAF Chaplain Corps and the Chief of CAP Chaplain Corps on 27 October 2009:

12. When providing chaplain assistance to military forces, qualified CAP chaplains will conform to the weight and groorning standards of CAPR 39-1 and wear the appropriate Air Force style uniform (including service dress, long-sleeved and short-sleeved blue shirt with or without tie/tab, BDU and ABU) with distinctive CAP identification and insignia. No other uniforms are authorized.

End of story.

[Short Field]

Chappie, you are not being fair posting facts and references instead of opinions and speculations. 

[Chappie]

Chappie, you are not being fair posting facts and references instead of opinions and speculations.

On a personal note...I have been a CAP Chaplain since 1996 and proud to be a CAP Chaplain.  Due to my lack of an 72 hour seminary degree from an accredited academic institution, I was granted a waiver for my appointment (CAP provides for that -- CAPR 265-1).  This precludes me from serving as a "force-multiplier" for the USAF Chaplain Corps.  Even though I have completed the Senior Member Professional Development Program (GRW #2095) and have served at every level of CAP in one capacity or another in the Chaplain Corps, there are no exceptions to rule set forth by the USAF Chaplain Corps and followed by the CAP Chaplain Corps.   Would I like to be able to serve as a "force multiplier"?  Sure, there is an USAF Base about 1 1/2 hours drive for me.  But am I crushed that I can't.  No...I am first and foremost a Chaplain in the Civil Air Patrol and have enjoyed and continue to enjoy every opportunity of service to our members that is afforded me.

[lordmonar]

If CAP chaplains need to be in AF uniforms to support AF needs, why don't aircrews need to be in AF uniforms to support AF needs, whether in VSAF, ES, or whatever.

Baloney meter is pegged here.

Apples and oranges. 

A CAP member in his blue flight suit with his extra weight, long hair and beard flying at 2000 ft is not the same as a CAP Chaplain at a USAF Chapel doing pastoral services. 

To use the USAF spin on it.

Some jobs require you to submit a full length photo and they can nix your application if you "don't look good" even if you are within USAF standards.  (MTIs, MTLs, PME Instructors, recruiters, etc).  Image for them is more important than it is for some guy turning wrenches on the flight line.

[Gunner C]

I didn't see chaplains on there.

[Spike]

This is item 12 in the Memorandum of Agreement signed by the Chief of the USAF Chaplain Corps and the Chief of CAP Chaplain Corps on 27 October 2009:

12. When providing chaplain assistance to military forces, qualified CAP chaplains will conform to the weight and groorning standards of CAPR 39-1 and wear the appropriate Air Force style uniform (including service dress, long-sleeved and short-sleeved blue shirt with or without tie/tab, BDU and ABU) with distinctive CAP identification and insignia. No other uniforms are authorized.

End of story.

Link please.  I just can not find what you are referencing. 

[Chappie]

This is item 12 in the Memorandum of Agreement signed by the Chief of the USAF Chaplain Corps and the Chief of CAP Chaplain Corps on 27 October 2009:

12. When providing chaplain assistance to military forces, qualified CAP chaplains will conform to the weight and groorning standards of CAPR 39-1 and wear the appropriate Air Force style uniform (including service dress, long-sleeved and short-sleeved blue shirt with or without tie/tab, BDU and ABU) with distinctive CAP identification and insignia. No other uniforms are authorized.

End of story.

Link please.  I just can not find what you are referencing.

Your Wing or Region Chaplain should have a copy of it.   I know that it is not on the CAP Chaplain Corps page as of it.  Unfortunately I can't upload a .pdf here.

[DogCollar]

Chappie, you are not being fair posting facts and references instead of opinions and speculations.

On a personal note...I have been a CAP Chaplain since 1996 and proud to be a CAP Chaplain.  Due to my lack of an 72 hour seminary degree from an accredited academic institution, I was granted a waiver for my appointment (CAP provides for that -- CAPR 265-1).  This precludes me from serving as a "force-multiplier" for the USAF Chaplain Corps.  Even though I have completed the Senior Member Professional Development Program (GRW #2095) and have served at every level of CAP in one capacity or another in the Chaplain Corps, there are no exceptions to rule set forth by the USAF Chaplain Corps and followed by the CAP Chaplain Corps.   Would I like to be able to serve as a "force multiplier"?  Sure, there is an USAF Base about 1 1/2 hours drive for me.  But am I crushed that I can't.  No...I am first and foremost a Chaplain in the Civil Air Patrol and have enjoyed and continue to enjoy every opportunity of service to our members that is afforded me.

You and I have never met face to face, but I do believe that you are what every CAP Chaplain should aspire to.  You have been selfless, profressional and, above all, faithful to your calling, to CAP and to it's Core Values!! 

You have been extremely generous to me personally by passing along the wisdom you have gained in your many years of service.  I hope that someday that we do get to meet face to face and I get to salute you and shake your hand!! 

I know what the regulations say about needing the 72 credit hour M.Div., but, it's still the AF's loss!

[Spike]

This is item 12 in the Memorandum of Agreement signed by the Chief of the USAF Chaplain Corps and the Chief of CAP Chaplain Corps on 27 October 2009:

12. When providing chaplain assistance to military forces, qualified CAP chaplains will conform to the weight and groorning standards of CAPR 39-1 and wear the appropriate Air Force style uniform (including service dress, long-sleeved and short-sleeved blue shirt with or without tie/tab, BDU and ABU) with distinctive CAP identification and insignia. No other uniforms are authorized.

End of story.

Link please.  I just can not find what you are referencing.

Your Wing or Region Chaplain should have a copy of it.   I know that it is not on the CAP Chaplain Corps page as of it.  Unfortunately I can't upload a .pdf here.

That is one more item that needs correcting.  Why is it not on the Chaplains page?  It is most likely an important document.  My Wing Chaplain unfortunately does not use a computer and is very "old".  I doubt he even knows of the documents existence. 

[Chappie]

This is item 12 in the Memorandum of Agreement signed by the Chief of the USAF Chaplain Corps and the Chief of CAP Chaplain Corps on 27 October 2009:

12. When providing chaplain assistance to military forces, qualified CAP chaplains will conform to the weight and groorning standards of CAPR 39-1 and wear the appropriate Air Force style uniform (including service dress, long-sleeved and short-sleeved blue shirt with or without tie/tab, BDU and ABU) with distinctive CAP identification and insignia. No other uniforms are authorized.

End of story.

Link please.  I just can not find what you are referencing.

Your Wing or Region Chaplain should have a copy of it.   I know that it is not on the CAP Chaplain Corps page as of it.  Unfortunately I can't upload a .pdf here.

That is one more item that needs correcting.  Why is it not on the Chaplains page?  It is most likely an important document.  My Wing Chaplain unfortunately does not use a computer and is very "old".  I doubt he even knows of the documents existence.

I am sure that it will find its way there one of these days    Unfortunately, the updating of the web-site does not receive the attention it deserves.   I will pass along the need for its posting.   The document was sent out via e-mail to Region Chaplains on 11/11/09.    Most, if not all Region Chaplains forwarded it to the Wing Chaplains. 

[Chappie]

This is item 12 in the Memorandum of Agreement signed by the Chief of the USAF Chaplain Corps and the Chief of CAP Chaplain Corps on 27 October 2009:

12. When providing chaplain assistance to military forces, qualified CAP chaplains will conform to the weight and groorning standards of CAPR 39-1 and wear the appropriate Air Force style uniform (including service dress, long-sleeved and short-sleeved blue shirt with or without tie/tab, BDU and ABU) with distinctive CAP identification and insignia. No other uniforms are authorized.

End of story.

Link please.  I just can not find what you are referencing.

Here is a link where you can find the signed Memorandum of Agreement between the USAF Chaplain Corps and the CAP Chaplain Corps:   http://hc.pcr.cap.gov/downloads/MOA_Signed.pdf

This is the first time in the 60 year history of the CAP Chaplain Corps that such a document has existed.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If CAP chaplains need to be in AF uniforms to support AF needs, why don't aircrews need to be in AF uniforms to support AF needs, whether in VSAF, ES, or whatever.

I agree, but I think the AF is very skittish on that for several reasons.

We are all (CAP) officers, and with as little as the AF seems to know about us  , I think they're trying to prevent "rank conflicts."

An Airman fresh out of Lackland being intimidated by a CAP 2LT who has no authority to give orders, and indeed may not be trying to, but just the presence of those gold bars on said young Airman...

The seemingly-odd situation of a CAP LTC being directed by an AF SMSGT

And, unfortunately, the hopefully very isolated instances of CAP officers trying to pull rank we don't have on USAF personnel.

The USCGAux gets around this by having its membership remove the bars, leaves, chickens and stars when they augment and replace the insignia with the CG Auxiliary crest.

A possible solution for us might be replacement of our grade insignia with the plain grey epaulette while augmenting the USAF, as directed by the AF unit commander.

[Spike]

^Not my Quote, but I will take the credit if you wish 

I can see your argument, but it is null if a Chaplain (who happens to be a CAP Captain) is dressing in AF style, and is 75 years old.  Wouldn't those same "fresh" Airman find it way confusing as well?

There are instances when CAP Officers do take lead of groups that have AF members in them.  When family day rolls around on Base in the summer each year, one of my CAP Officers is the OIC, and is supported by the Services Squadron and its Enlisted members.  His directions carry the authority of the Base Commander who made him OIC. 

Nothing falls apart, moral does not suffer, and we head up an awesome MWR/ Family support group week.  It has been that way since 1996.  On Base, CAP is known for its augmentation role.  Like I always say, don't wait for the Air Force to come to you for help, go offer your help.