Chaplain Problem

[Spike]

Well, I have a CAP Chaplain at my unit.  The Air Force has requested his assistance and we followed the channels by having the Base Wing Chaplain request the support from the CAP Wing Chaplain, and it was approved all the way up National until this evening when I received an email stating that my Chaplain is not allowed to provide support to the Air Force because "he does not meet AF style Uniform weight standards".  The letter directed me to the following paragraph...

ALL CAP Chaplain Corps assistance will utilize only those chaplains who conform to the weight and grooming standards specified in CAPR 39-1 and are otherwise able to wear the Air Force style uniform properly. Only the authorized Air Force style uniforms are to be worn while performing CAP Chaplain Corps assistance to the military.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CCOP_2009001_5F578288215A2.pdf

What the crap.  I was told that CAP has already found an AF-style uniform wearing Chaplain form 150 miles away who will be happy to come and provide the assistance.

This is a slap in the face to my Chaplain, and ME.  I hope I don't lose this fine Officer over this!

[RiverAux]

This shouldn't have been a surprise .... it is in the regulation. 

I do find it odd that in this case of direct support to the AF we require the wear of the AF style uniform while in the VSAF program they're going exactly the opposite direction.

[Eclipse]

This is a slap in the face to my Chaplain, and ME.  I hope I don't lose this fine Officer over this!

No, this is called...the rules.

If he joined to provide augmentation to the USAF, he's missing the point, anyway.  That's a "once-in-awhile" "nice-to-have", not the main mission of the Chaplain Corps.

If this was an "after-the-fact" surprise, someone isn't paying attention.

[Spike]

^ I do blame myself, just wanted to point out how ridiculous this rule is.  Since the Chaplain Corps is a detail rich monster in terms of regs and policies, I never took the time to read them closely.  As Squadron Commander, I did have other things that needed my attention more.  However, I think this was a setup because, how would National know this guys weight?  I think they pulled this play card to hook up a friend, and an IG complaint is on the way up tomorrow. 

[Pylon]

how would National know this guys weight?

Most members have it listed right in E-Services.

I think they pulled this play card to hook up a friend, and an IG complaint is on the way up tomorrow. 

From my armchair here, I'd say there exists no basis for an IG complaint, if the guy doesn't actually qualify by the regulations.  Those are the rules and the IG ensures enforcement of the rules, not what people deem to be "fair".

[Eclipse]

Does he meet weight or not?  If not, don't waste the IG's time because you won't get anywhere.

These are USAF rules, we have no leeway in them, and they are understandable, since the Chaplains are one of the few places a
CAP member can serve an identical role to active USAF, so they have to be at least passable in a uniform.

[RiverAux]

Frankly, I'm most surprised that NHQ was detailed oriented enough to check on this, evidentally by pulling up the members records and checking it against the height-weight chart.

[Spike]

^ They passed word to my Wing Commander last Thursday, he just emailed Sunday evening. 

I just feel sorry for the guy because he was looking forward to it, and he is an excellent orator and pastor. 

I jumped to quick, and most likely will not send the IG complaint.  Everyone here is right, the rules are the rules.  I did not even know that document existed.  I called my Group Chaplain who worked with my Chaplain and the Wing Chaplain to get this CAP and AF approved. 

I will still accept responsibility, it is MY Squadron. 

[Eclipse]

Do we have to hug now?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

This is unfortunate, but not unexpected.

I had no idea how closely CAP Chaplains were connected to the USAF until we actually had a Chaplain in my first squadron.  The guy was a corker; Presbyterian minister, also qualified as Observer, Comms...we were real sorry to lose him when he got a call to another church.

From what I remember him telling me from about 15 years ago, he had to meet the same standards as a Chaplain in the AF/ANG/AFRES if he wanted to augment them.  That included both ecclesiastical and uniform requirements.  I don't know if he ever actually did augment, but I think he asked the Wing Chaplain to let the Chaplains of the ANG and AFRES units in the wing know that he was available.

Conversely, the Wing Chaplain at that time was also a great guy and well-qualified, but he did not meet AF H/W standards, and hence wore white/greys.  I doubt he would have been able to augment, but he did a bang-on job as Wing "skypilot."

I don't know the statistics on how often, or to what extent, CAP Chaplains augment the Air Force/ANG/AFRES, but I don't believe it's very frequent.

In fact, this former Chaplain told me that he was considering checking into being a Chaplain in the ANG/AFRES so he could be more directly involved, but again, I don't know if he ever did.

[DogCollar]

Boy...the title of this thread had me worried for a moment!   The AF is pretty strict with Chaplains needing to meet the HW and Grooming standards before assisting with their spiritual support needs.  Oh well...at least it is incentive for me to continue to watch my weight...just in case.  Although, I've never been asked in the 4 years I have been a member.

[PHall]

Boy...the title of this thread had me worried for a moment!   The AF is pretty strict with Chaplains needing to meet the HW and Grooming standards before assisting with their spiritual support needs.  Oh well...at least it is incentive for me to continue to watch my weight...just in case.  Although, I've never been asked in the 4 years I have been a member.

Do the Chaplains in the National Guard/Reserve units near you know that you are available? Have you touched base with them?

[Gunner C]

Well, I have a CAP Chaplain at my unit.  The Air Force has requested his assistance and we followed the channels by having the Base Wing Chaplain request the support from the CAP Wing Chaplain, and it was approved all the way up National until this evening when I received an email stating that my Chaplain is not allowed to provide support to the Air Force because "he does not meet AF style Uniform weight standards".  The letter directed me to the following paragraph...

ALL CAP Chaplain Corps assistance will utilize only those chaplains who conform to the weight and grooming standards specified in CAPR 39-1 and are otherwise able to wear the Air Force style uniform properly. Only the authorized Air Force style uniforms are to be worn while performing CAP Chaplain Corps assistance to the military.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CCOP_2009001_5F578288215A2.pdf

What the crap.  I was told that CAP has already found an AF-style uniform wearing Chaplain form 150 miles away who will be happy to come and provide the assistance.

This is a slap in the face to my Chaplain, and ME.  I hope I don't lose this fine Officer over this!

Would it hurt anyone's salvation if a chaplain has more than one chin?  But the chaplain corps has a strange way of looking at things.  Could this be a bit of "sell the sizzle and not the steak?"  IMO they're worrying about the wrong thing here.  But it's their regulation and their sandbox. 

I hope your chaplain understands.

[lordmonar]

Well...that argument can be used toward any of CAP's uniform issues.

The USAF does not care how professional we are, but we got to look good in their uniform.

The CAP Chaplain program has always been a special case....because they can be called on to directly support USAF operations and so hold the members who answer that call to a higher standard.

Not saying it is right or wrong....just the way it is.

[RiverAux]

The CAP Chaplain program has always been a special case....because they can be called on to directly support USAF operations and so hold the members who answer that call to a higher standard.

In the past that argument, might have been true, but with VSAF members being told to wear civilian clothes rather than any of the military style uniforms, that no longer seems to be the case.   Granted the VSAF uniform is inappropriate for most things Chaplains would be used for by the AF (funerals, for example), but if the VSAF "uniform" is the wave of the future, expect Chaplains to be officiaciting in the CAP blazer in the future...

[lordmonar]

I don't think you can compare the VSAF support with the Chaplain support.  Also you have to see that they are two seperate programs controlled by two seperate organisation.

Finally I don't think the VSAF program or its uniform is the wave of the future.

[RiverAux]

You're the one that said that augmenting the AF was the reason they were in AF uniforms, I was just pointing out that we've got other folks augmenting the AF being directed NOT to wear the AF uniform, so your argument fails. 

VSAF certainly is the wave of the future as far as CAP augmentation of the AF goes.  Wasn't implying that it was going to become a major part of CAP life.

[RADIOMAN015]

I don't think you can compare the VSAF support with the Chaplain support.  Also you have to see that they are two seperate programs controlled by two seperate organisation.

Finally I don't think the VSAF program or its uniform is the wave of the future.

You know it's funny you bring that up, because I remember in my AF career that at times the AF would use contract or maybe volunteer chaplain auxiliaries that would fill in from the local community/region, when a particular denomination could not be supported at the base chapel.

Perhaps CAP again needs to get out of the "wanna bee" business of wearing USAF style uniforms and basically let the chaplains wear the CAP business suit attire.   Many religions wear vestments anyways and you don't even see the uniform.

Somehow I think that CAP could get this policy changed (which is probably what CAP agreed to without comprise in the first place).

Remember that we are the CIVIL Air Patrol.  We don't have to wear AF style uniforms at any other AF mission support function.  The AF should be happy there's chaplains willing to volunteer their services without adding the AF uniform, weight, & grooming requirements.  I think you will fine those "contract" chaplains don't meet those standards
RM   

[DogCollar]

Boy...the title of this thread had me worried for a moment!   The AF is pretty strict with Chaplains needing to meet the HW and Grooming standards before assisting with their spiritual support needs.  Oh well...at least it is incentive for me to continue to watch my weight...just in case.  Although, I've never been asked in the 4 years I have been a member.

Do the Chaplains in the National Guard/Reserve units near you know that you are available? Have you touched base with them?

Yes is the short answer.  The wing chaplain has communicated with all the guard and reserve units in Virginia about the availability of CAP Chaplains.  However, as there are a plethora of military bases in eastern and northern Virginia, were most of the guard and reserve units are attached, AD chaplains are generally available.  In our neck of the woods, there always seems to be AD chaplains available.

[DogCollar]

Well, I have a CAP Chaplain at my unit.  The Air Force has requested his assistance and we followed the channels by having the Base Wing Chaplain request the support from the CAP Wing Chaplain, and it was approved all the way up National until this evening when I received an email stating that my Chaplain is not allowed to provide support to the Air Force because "he does not meet AF style Uniform weight standards".  The letter directed me to the following paragraph...

ALL CAP Chaplain Corps assistance will utilize only those chaplains who conform to the weight and grooming standards specified in CAPR 39-1 and are otherwise able to wear the Air Force style uniform properly. Only the authorized Air Force style uniforms are to be worn while performing CAP Chaplain Corps assistance to the military.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CCOP_2009001_5F578288215A2.pdf

What the crap.  I was told that CAP has already found an AF-style uniform wearing Chaplain form 150 miles away who will be happy to come and provide the assistance.

This is a slap in the face to my Chaplain, and ME.  I hope I don't lose this fine Officer over this!

Would it hurt anyone's salvation if a chaplain has more than one chin?  But the chaplain corps has a strange way of looking at things.  Could this be a bit of "sell the sizzle and not the steak?"  IMO they're worrying about the wrong thing here.  But it's their regulation and their sandbox. 
I hope your chaplain understands.

Well said.