Professional appointments

Eclipse · September 30, 2009, 01:33:15 PM

Quote from: FLCAP 834 on September 30, 2009, 12:54:29 PM
What would be the best source of explaining to this member that I have already spoke to NHQ and there is no way they will allow the promotion based upon a GS-13 rating?

Just have a direct conversation that CAP only offers grade equivalence for current or retired military not government jobs. The regs are your source on this as he won't find anything to the contrary in there.

jimmydeanno · September 30, 2009, 01:33:49 PM

Quote from: FLCAP 834 on September 30, 2009, 12:54:29 PM
What would be the best source of explaining to this member that I have already spoke to NHQ and there is no way they will allow the promotion based upon a GS-13 rating?

Seems simple to me. "We inquired, and unfortunately the regulations do not allow for advanced promotions for this situation. We tried."

Oh, and a GS-13 being the equivalent of a Lt Col is the same as my General Manager being the equivalent of a Lt Gen. They get paid similarly, have about the same AOR, but they are not "equivalent." A Navy Commander and a Lt Col are "equivalent."

RiverAux · September 30, 2009, 06:03:22 PM

Quote from: FLCAP 834 on September 30, 2009, 12:54:29 PM
Since we are on this topic I will start here as not to create another thread.

I have a SM 2d Lt that just transfered to us from National Patron Squadron and got his 2d Lt. He is retired from the Immigration Service and holds a GS-13. He says that the GS-13 is equiv to a Military Lt Col.

He is pushing both me as the Personnel Officer and our Commanding Officer to put in for Exceptional Qualification to the grade of Lt Col.

I cannot tell you how skeptical and leery I would be of a new member that tried this. How to tell him? Don't blame NHQ (I wouldn't even have considered asking them in a situation like this), just say that you don't think his background warrants it.

Bobble · September 30, 2009, 06:57:43 PM

Obviously, a mistake has been made. Yer man should be directed to the nearest Civil Service Air Patrol squadron, where his GS grade will be recognized and respected.

davedove · September 30, 2009, 07:22:16 PM

It sounds to me like this guy is full of himself and trying to make himself look important. The grade and rank are equated for things like duty assignments and pecking order at meetings and the like, but they are NOT the same thing.

(And if they are deemed to be the same, I demand my promotion to Major immediately.)

Short Field · October 01, 2009, 12:11:54 AM

GS Rank?? It is a pay grade.... Last unit I was in the entry level positions were GS-12. I had GS-13s working for O3s. I tried to make sure the GS14s at least worked for a O4.

Gunner C · October 01, 2009, 06:23:38 AM

Yeah, a GS13 is the Lt Col equivalent for protocol reasons. I'm a 14 and I get to call Cols by their first name. That's about as far as it goes. There's a couple of my fellow 14s who I wouldn't pee on if they were on fire. Heck, I know one who made 14 when he was 29. So what?

cnitas · October 01, 2009, 01:44:36 PM

Quote from: davedove on September 30, 2009, 07:22:16 PM
(And if they are deemed to be the same, I demand my promotion to Major immediately.)

Denied.

Ranger75 · October 01, 2009, 04:09:13 PM

I'm curious if the impact is cumulative. A retired Colonel currently serving as a GG-15 equates to what on the CAP pay scale?

AirAux · October 01, 2009, 04:14:12 PM

Depends on what a GG-15 is..

jimmydeanno · October 01, 2009, 04:57:37 PM

Quote from: Ranger75 on October 01, 2009, 04:09:13 PM
I'm curious if the impact is cumulative. A retired Colonel currently serving as a GG-15 equates to what on the CAP pay scale?

Lt. Col would be the max he could be appointed.

bosshawk · October 01, 2009, 05:00:00 PM

If I remember correctly, a GG-15 is the same thing as a GS-15 and it has no equivalent in military(or CAP) rank. If this guy is a retired O-6, he can be promoted to LtCol in CAP on the basis of his military rank. I know, because I are one. I also happened to be a GS-15 in one of my previous lives.

Hawk200 · October 01, 2009, 05:00:43 PM

Quote from: Ranger75 on October 01, 2009, 04:09:13 PMI'm curious if the impact is cumulative. A retired Colonel currently serving as a GG-15 equates to what on the CAP pay scale?

There is no pay scale to equate to. As to his rank, he could become a Lt Col.

If said person were to become a wing/region commander or certain positions on National staff, they could achieve full bird status, but only due to the position not by virtue of having been a colonel before.

ZigZag911 · October 01, 2009, 05:02:34 PM

I'm coming to the conclusion, after years of watching this play out, that if CAP is going to offer advanced grade for professional experience or mission related skills, it should only be available upon completion of Level II....by that point, someone has been a member for a year or more, and the squadron commander has a pretty good idea of their contributions and character.

Ranger75 · October 01, 2009, 07:38:42 PM

Gentlemen -- Thanks for the responses to my query about the cumulative impact of prior military service and current civil service grade. As one who has been asssociated with CAP for a good number of years, the question was posed tongue-in-check, specifically with reference to the CAP pay scale. I do appreciate your willingness to offer a serious response to what was evidently viewed, unintentionally on my part, as a serious question.

Bosshawk -- The GG scale was previously applied to DoD intel types and followed the general scheme and salaries of the GS scale. Currently, the work force is converting to the pay band system associated with the new Defense Civilian Intelligence Personnel System (Pay-for-Performance).

AirAux · October 01, 2009, 07:44:33 PM

Well, if they are going for Pay for Performance, that should certainly cut the budget severely..HeHe..

Ranger75 · October 01, 2009, 08:02:32 PM

Some of us are senior enough to be grandfathered in. Therefore, pay-for-breathing still exists.

bosshawk · October 01, 2009, 09:36:35 PM

Ranger 75: thanks for the clarification. I vaguely remembered that GG existed, wasn't sure where. While I was a professional intel guy, I wasn't under the DoD system, except in my military career.

IceNine · October 02, 2009, 12:58:40 AM

^ Do you have to kill us now?

Hawk200 · October 02, 2009, 02:29:37 AM

Quote from: ZigZag911 on October 01, 2009, 05:02:34 PMI'm coming to the conclusion, after years of watching this play out, that if CAP is going to offer advanced grade for professional experience or mission related skills, it should only be available upon completion of Level II....by that point, someone has been a member for a year or more, and the squadron commander has a pretty good idea of their contributions and character.

I kinda like this idea. It would eliminate someone getting an advancement and then doing nothing of value. It would also eliminate some swelled egos (Yes, I've seen it, although it's not representative of the majority of such promotions). Then there's the additional benefit that you don't have a member with advanced rank that's still rather clueless abou the organization.

Promote the member normally up to Level 2, kick the promotion in when they complete it. Plus it would show how motivated they are.