The new SLS and CLC courses

[Eclipse]

You don't need hotels and airplanes when you host things locally.

That's the whole idea.

You only need enough members to make it worth the time (and "worth the time" is subjective - 5 in each class makes for a nice discussion environment where everyone can participate, 10 each is about the limit where things go from discussion to lecture), and wing approval.

No one should have to fly to an SLS/CLC unless they want to, and then its their problem and nickel.

The first time you host one you only need two people who are Level III - one to direct and instruct the SLS, one the CLC (more is better but not required), next time you should have plenty, because everyone who did the CLC can instruct.

After that, its an annual thing, and people start to expect it, my Wing has done 4 per year the last two, inconveiintly located for everyone.

[mynetdude]

You don't need hotels and airplanes when you host things locally.

That's the whole idea.

You only need enough members to make it worth the time (and "worth the time" is subjective - 5 in each class makes for a nice discussion environment where everyone can participate, 10 each is about the limit where things go from discussion to lecture), and wing approval.

No one should have to fly to an SLS/CLC unless they want to, and then its their problem and nickel.

The first time you host one you only need two people who are Level III - one to direct and instruct the SLS, one the CLC (more is better but not required), next time you should have plenty, because everyone who did the CLC can instruct.

After that, its an annual thing, and people start to expect it, my Wing has done 4 per year the last two, inconveiintly located for everyone.

well if you're talking about hosting a local unit SLS thats fine... as soon as you open it up to wing then you have to worry about hotels... unless you plan on letting them spend the night in the hangar (which in theory is possible if you have a small enough group).

[Eclipse]

By definition they are always open to the Wing (and the whole country, we had members from 3 states last Spring), its just not >your< problem where they stay if they choose to avail the opportunity.

A lot of wings do one a year, or less, so yo have the panicked members due for promotion who put it off and are forced into the long drive.

We've spent a lot of effort to provide multiple opportunities on these things so they are not such a "big deal", you miss one, you're not done for the year.

[mynetdude]

I did mine as soon as the first opportunity became available and it was hosted right at my unit so I only had to drive home.

Of course CLC is available at my unit this year, I have no need to do CLC right now.  I will be on the IT staff though so I will be spending time driving. I won't need it next year because I will be ineligible for promotion anyway and then the following year I will be eligible so I don't mind waiting a bit to get promoted to getting my railroad tracks (captain) and at that time my membership will be questionable at that point.

[RiverAux]

I've never heard of wing funds paying for lodging for any wing training event.  Never had a charge for CLC or SLS in my wing.  Photocopies are made on the wings copier so are essentially "free" in that they are just a part of doing business.  I'd be interested in seeing how much the line item is that NHQ is supposedly sending towards wings for these classes. 

[brasda91]

Well let me see... oh so you want someone to drive an invisible non usable vehicle to drive themselves around as if they brought their own car via an airplane? right... lets see how well that goes when they pay for a taxicab or a rental car that isn't needed and more effectively... they can pay for carpooling or call a member to come pick them up from the hotel... you STILL need transportation to/from the hotel especially if you are not from the area and you come in by air. I think that is a dense response as to "why can't they just drive themselves around"... sorry but I am not trying to be mean or pick a fight.

Drive the squadron van.  Hopefully your squadron has the funds to pay for the fuel.

If you have pilot that would rather fly a rented 172 to where the SLS/CLC is being held, surely there would be someone locally that wouldn't mind driving by the airport and picking him/her up.

If you drive from out of town, you're going to have a hotel cost.  You recognize this fact and drive on.  You understand this is a part of the course and you don't gripe about it.

[mynetdude]

I've never heard of wing funds paying for lodging for any wing training event.  Never had a charge for CLC or SLS in my wing.  Photocopies are made on the wings copier so are essentially "free" in that they are just a part of doing business.  I'd be interested in seeing how much the line item is that NHQ is supposedly sending towards wings for these classes. 

never said they paid for lodging... it pays for fuel for shuttle needs of the members staying at hotels if they come to the area by air, bus or rail.  And it pays for other operating expenses such as electrical/water/sewer/etc.

[SarDragon]

From CAPR 50-17:

4-6. Squadron Leadership School (SLS).
c. Funding. Each fiscal year, CAP allocates funds for support of SLS. Contact NHQ CAP/ETP for the amount. When NHQ CAP/ETP receives a CAPF 11, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program Director's Report (Attachment 6), from the SLS course director, signed by the wing commander, ETP mails a check to the wing commander. NOTE: Some wings may hold more than one SLS per year; however, only one SLS is funded.

5-3. Corporate Learning Course (CLC).
d. Funding. Each fiscal year, CAP allocates funds for support of CLCs. Contact NHQ CAP/ETP for the amount. When NHQ CAP/ETP receives a CAPF 11, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program Director's Report (Attachment 6), from the CLC course director, signed by the wing commander, ETP mails a check to the wing commander. NOTE: Some wings may hold more than one CLC per year; however, only one CLC is funded.

This is my direct knowledge on the subject, having never been a director of either activity. You can contact the folks at NHQ for more details.

[Short Field]

Ours were all self-funded.  The local airport furnished the classroom.   I forget what we charged, between $10 to $15, to cover the coffee, donuts, and class handouts.  We provide a take-home binder with all the student guides plus a CD with all the course materals, CAP Regs, slides, etc.

[jimmydeanno]

I've directed an SLS, TLC and a CLC and taught at probably 10 over the past few years and have never had to charge a single dollar for any of them.  NHQ may allow for one 'funded' each year, but that doesn't mean that it actually costs anything to run.

Even if you have to pay rent for where you are, you are paying that no matter what - normal cost of doing business.  However, most squadrons don't pay anything for their locations and can accommodate a class of 15-20 without any issues, or you can find someone local that will let you use their facilities during the weekend, like a VFW - then you get some public awareness too.

I always investigate local lodging opportunities or even offer to have people stay with me.  IIRC the last time I had someone stay at a hotel for SLS we negotiated a $15.00 a night rate, that's pretty reasonable if you ask me - but he came from an entirely different region to go to SLS - to each their own.

For snacks and stuff, I never mandate a fee for them, I just pick them up and make it "by donation."  If someone wants something, fine, if not people usually donate more than the stuff costs anyway (ie; 2 bucks for a donut and small cup of coffee).  Lunches I offer to order in lunch and make it 'by donation' it's usually pizza or something.  The last TLC I directed it cost 40 dollars for pizza and drinks for 15 people.  Everyone was there, together, and the few people who brought their lunches didn't feel left out when everyone went out to eat (because they didn't).  Worked really well.

The best solution to avoiding personal costs for one of the courses is to hold one at your own squadron - even if it's unfunded.  The Wing is supposed to hold at least one per year but that doesn't mean you can't hold them yourself.

But I still think that people who have already taken the courses should check out the new ones.

YMMV.

[Eclipse]

I did mine as soon as the first opportunity became available and it was hosted right at my unit so I only had to drive home.

Of course CLC is available at my unit this year, I have no need to do CLC right now.  I will be on the IT staff though so I will be spending time driving. I won't need it next year because I will be ineligible for promotion anyway and then the following year I will be eligible so I don't mind waiting a bit to get promoted to getting my railroad tracks (captain) and at that time my membership will be questionable at that point.

If you're taking the time to be there, you should participate in the class, not serve on staff.

You may be surprised how quickly life gets in the way and then you'll be sorry you didn't take the time for your own needs.

[RogueLeader]

If you're taking the time to be there, you should participate in the class, not serve on staff.

You may be surprised how quickly life gets in the way and then you'll be sorry you didn't take the time for your own needs.

I'm instructing in 2 CLC classes, as well as being a student.

[mynetdude]

If you're taking the time to be there, you should participate in the class, not serve on staff.

You may be surprised how quickly life gets in the way and then you'll be sorry you didn't take the time for your own needs.

I'm instructing in 2 CLC classes, as well as being a student.

I didn't know you could be a student and instructor on the same class? There doesn't seem to be any regulation that says you can't do that either.

YMMV, I couldn't serve on the SLS staff and be a student at the same time. My commander wouldn't let me (since he was the course director anyhow). And since my involvement was very little on the staff, I didn't see why I couldn't but that didn't matter then.

[Camas]

CLC is available at my unit this year, I have no need to do CLC right now.  I will be on the IT staff - - - .

If you're taking the time to be there, you should participate in the class, not serve on staff. You may be surprised how quickly life gets in the way and then you'll be sorry you didn't take the time for your own needs.

Good advice. Yes, you can instruct and participate in the same course; I haven't seen anything in CAPR 50-17 stating otherwise.  But I'm personally not comfortable with using staff members who haven't been through the course yet.  Your unit commander didn't want you serving on your SLS staff and being a student at the same time.  I supported his decision.  And don't get the idea that just because you aren't up for a certain grade that you don't need the course; I took CLC as a 1st lieutenant.  Anytime an opportunity like this comes up, especially if it's at your squadron, you should jump at the chance.  Your CLC course director is a former director of cadet programs for your wing, he has 30 years of service to CAP and he's a current member of your unit.  What more do you want?

[Eclipse]

If you're taking the time to be there, you should participate in the class, not serve on staff.

You may be surprised how quickly life gets in the way and then you'll be sorry you didn't take the time for your own needs.

I'm instructing in 2 CLC classes, as well as being a student.

I didn't know you could be a student and instructor on the same class? There doesn't seem to be any regulation that says you can't do that either.

YMMV, I couldn't serve on the SLS staff and be a student at the same time. My commander wouldn't let me (since he was the course director anyhow). And since my involvement was very little on the staff, I didn't see why I couldn't but that didn't matter then.

You should not receive both instructor and participant credit for the same activity.  I don't know if that is explicitly spelled in the regs, but many wings, including my own, have official policies against that. 

This is primarily in reaction to situations where members were volunteering as instructors, reading 10 slides and then sitting in the staff lounge the rest of the weekend, which defeats the purpose.

Now, with that said, if you are an SME on a respective topic for an SLS or CLC in which you are a participant, there's no reason you can't lead a class and then sit back down, receiving only student credit.

Since the new curriculum is no longer position-focused (each class was a department), this is less necessary than before.  Most of the classes are generalized in theory or cross multiple departments, so a respective SME has less value.

BTW - in the exercise that discusses making decisions regarding how to allocate resources, THERE ARE NO CORRECT ANSWERS. It is entirely subjective with the intention that the decisions are based on need, reasoning, and backed up with information.  I have now directed two courses where the instructor listened to each group, all who had made difficult, appropriate choices, and then when they were all done proceeded to tell the class "That's great, but this is the REAL answer, we're an >AIR< patrol, therefore the money has to go to fixing the plane.  ((*sigh*))
For the most part, the majority of the discussions are intended to be subjective.

[Short Field]

And in the Planning And Decision Making Seminar, it is NOT about the survival gear - it is all about how you go about making your decisions in a group environment.  I saw one instructor who tried to turn it into a survival lesson.......

[RogueLeader]

If you're taking the time to be there, you should participate in the class, not serve on staff.

You may be surprised how quickly life gets in the way and then you'll be sorry you didn't take the time for your own needs.

I'm instructing in 2 CLC classes, as well as being a student.

I didn't know you could be a student and instructor on the same class? There doesn't seem to be any regulation that says you can't do that either.

YMMV, I couldn't serve on the SLS staff and be a student at the same time. My commander wouldn't let me (since he was the course director anyhow). And since my involvement was very little on the staff, I didn't see why I couldn't but that didn't matter then.

My commander said to make it happen. I can't find quite enough instructors, so I add my self.

[ßτε]

^Are you in charge of the CLC as well as being an instructor and a student?

I can't see how you would be able to do two of these well, let alone all three of them. If you have not been a student at CLC yet, that should be your primary task.

[arajca]

Believe it or not, if planned properly, the course director can sit around during the course - or be a student. BTDT.

[Short Field]

Depending on your background (training and experience), you may be the local (read "available") SME on a particular block of instruction.  

Besides, if you study and prepare enough to instruct a block, then you know it at least as well as the people you are instructing.  So having to stand in front of the seminar on one block and being able to sit through the others should not be an issue.  Nothing precludes you from getting credit for both.

I attended the CLC course as a student,.  I also taught a couple of blocks, plus a additional one on eServices so I got credit as serving on staff.  To top it off, I was also the Course Director.  Guess I was "triple-dipping".   I already had credit as a Course Director for SLS (no I didn't attend as a student but did as staff) but I did need credit for CLC and the only way to get it was to put on the CLC.

I am just logging time now to get my Wilson.  Should have it by the time I have 3 years, 3 months in CAP.  I started slow.