Non-Prior Service to NCO? CAP Major to NCO!?

[Falling Hare]

I was surprised and pleased to discover that CAP is rebooting the NCO ranks and this has fired my interest in rejoining.

Am a former senior CAP member with about 20 years of service.  Left as a Major after a career that included serving in three wings and running programs at squadron and wing level, as well as coordinating with region staff and federal agencies.

For about seventeen years I also served in a state defense force ("state guard" or home guard).  Joined as a private and worked my way up the ranks.  My outfit was actively involved with supporting a National Guard light infantry battalion.  We worked as OPFOR light infantry, built and hoisted targets at the range, played casualties in drills, filled out undermanned squads, guarded armories, etc.  Anything and everything to support the NG.  When the state guard was disbanded I was breveted to the rank of SFC and received a letter of thanks from the AG.

Really enjoyed my service as a sergeant and would jump at the chance to go back into CAP as a staff sergeant.  The only rub is that CAP will not recognize "state" ranks.  So I am basically on the level of the average non-prior service member.

Should I go back into CAP as a SMOG and wait for the NCO program to eventually admit NPS personnel ?  Is this even likely?  Can I make inquiries through my local squadron commander up the chain of command about this?  Or could I ask for some kind of special appointment based on past CAP service? (Would hate to try this...VERY poor form)!

The National NCO Committee might want to get feedback on unique problems like this.  Hopefully, problems like this will contribute to their operational experience and help to flesh out the program in the unique environment that is CAP.   And, I can't help but be excited and impressed by their efforts.

Any suggestion would be appreciated!

[Garibaldi]

I was surprised and pleased to discover that CAP is rebooting the NCO ranks and this has fired my interest in rejoining.

Am a former senior CAP member with about 20 years of service.  Left as a Major after a career that included serving in three wings and running programs at squadron and wing level, as well as coordinating with region staff and federal agencies.

For about seventeen years I also served in a state defense force ("state guard" or home guard).  Joined as a private and worked my way up the ranks.  My outfit was actively involved with supporting a National Guard light infantry battalion.  We worked as OPFOR light infantry, built and hoisted targets at the range, played casualties in drills, filled out undermanned squads, guarded armories, etc.  Anything and everything to support the NG.  When the state guard was disbanded I was breveted to the rank of SFC and received a letter of thanks from the AG.

Really enjoyed my service as a sergeant and would jump at the chance to go back into CAP as a staff sergeant.  The only rub is that CAP will not recognize "state" ranks.  So I am basically on the level of the average non-prior service member.

Should I go back into CAP as a SMOG and wait for the NCO program to eventually admit NPS personnel ?  Is this even likely?  Can I make inquiries through my local squadron commander up the chain of command about this?  Or could I ask for some kind of special appointment based on past CAP service? (Would hate to try this...VERY poor form)!

The National NCO Committee might want to get feedback on unique problems like this.  Hopefully, problems like this will contribute to their operational experience and help to flesh out the program in the unique environment that is CAP.   And, I can't help but be excited and impressed by their efforts.

Any suggestion would be appreciated!

I'm in a boat in an adjacent lake. I am currently a major and I am willing to trade the bottle caps for stripes, but it's not happening any time soon. They are slowly rolling it out, for prior service NCOs staff sergeant and above. I forget what the next phase is, but it won't be fully implemented for a while.

[THRAWN]

CAP does not allow for the wear of state decorations, some for valor. The chances of CAP recognizing state ranks it about as good as me getting elected Miss America. Want to rejoin? Great. Nothing says you have to hold a CAP grade other than SM. Do the job and don't worry about your title.

[Garibaldi]

CAP does not allow for the wear of state decorations, some for valor. The chances of CAP recognizing state ranks it about as good as me getting elected Miss America. Want to rejoin? Great. Nothing says you have to hold a CAP grade other than SM. Do the job and don't worry about your title.

Oddly, from what I have seen, the Georgia branch allows CAP medals and some ribbons on the ADU. But no credit for any CAP PD courses, training, or experience.

[THRAWN]

Maryland will take CAP TIS, grade and position into account when determining initial entry grade. No ribbons, badges, or insignia.

[Falling Hare]

Yes it is about nostalgia for a rank I had to sweat for, but it is also about practicality and getting the mission done. 

Having been in both camps I have found that in general, people feel less intimidated by enlisted / NCO personnel.  Whether teaching a class, working with new members, on a ground team, or interacting with other agencies; people just relax more...they see you as an average "joe".

Officers are to be commended for their dedication and skill, especially in an aviation environment, but things just seems to go a little smoother in the field as an NCO.  On ground teams, everyone seemed put off or hostile (especially police) when I was wearing my gold oak leaves.  As a sergeant in the SDF people in general seemed a lot more cooperative and friendly.

I think it will help me focus on the squadron level more...I am now more interested in "serving those who serve" programs like CISM and being a NCO there would be helpful.

[lordmonar]

As of now......NO your SDF rank does not count and you cannot enter the NCO ranks.

That is going to change.   We are actively working on NCO Professional Development and once that is out and on the streets the plan is to open the NCO ranks to members who have not had AD/RES/NG service.

Unfortunately this is CAP........so we are looking 2-3 (if not more) years down the road.

Other new to report from the NCO Committee.....we are still waiting for 20-1 and 35-5 to get pushed out.   It seems that they got caught up in the "no new regs" moratorium but we are working to get them released ASAP.

Word has it that 20-1 is getting split into a reg and a pamphlet with the duty descriptions in the pamphlet part.  I don't know what the numbering is going to be.

On the 35-5 front.....the normal promotion process for NCOs is finalized.  We are still running the CAP Officer to CAP NCO conversion process through the various staff offices for coordination.

[capmaj]

Lordmonar.............  If/when all this is actually initiated, how would a prior service E-5 be affected 'grade-wise' if he or she currently has their Level 5 complete? Would folks still retain just their grade as it was at time of discharge or would that grade be affected by their level, i.e. Wilson? 

[lordmonar]

This is what was being sent up the staff.

Option 2 was the one the committee recommended.

Note that it is draft and may not be approved or it may be approved with modifications.

[lordmonar]

Lordmonar.............  If/when all this is actually initiated, how would a prior service E-5 be affected 'grade-wise' if he or she currently has their Level 5 complete? Would folks still retain just their grade as it was at time of discharge or would that grade be affected by their level, i.e. Wilson?

No....their CAP officer rank, Time in CAP and PD Level will be considered.

A former SSgt (E-5) with Level V and 10 yeas TIS could be appointed to SMSgt.  If the matrix is approved.

[Falling Hare]

Lordmonar,

Actually things seem to be moving along quite quickly by CAP standards.

Unlike the regular service, SDFs vary widely from state to state in training, size and mission.  There is no consistent system of training or organization, which is too bad because a few states have truly excellent organizations that contribute very much to the NG.

The grid that you have put together looks good.  Trying to put together something like this for non-prior service folk in CAP will probably be a real headache though. 

This will really restore some balance and tradition to the entire rank structure.  My compliment to you and the National Committee.  CAP has needed this for a long time!

[TSgt Kemp]

I just transitioned into the new NCO structure.  It was more of a process than we thought it would be.  My squadron commander finally got it through by submitting a CAPF 2 reverting me to my rank of SSgt (my former Air Force rank) and a second promoting me to tech base on my ten years TIS as a staff and completion of Level 2.

Now I need to sew on the new stripes...

Someone check me on this:  As I read CAPM 39-1, we no longer wear the CAP cutouts if we wear the CAP stripes.  True?

[PHall]

I just transitioned into the new NCO structure.  It was more of a process than we thought it would be.  My squadron commander finally got it through by submitting a CAPF 2 reverting me to my rank of SSgt (my former Air Force rank) and a second promoting me to tech base on my ten years TIS as a staff and completion of Level 2.

Now I need to sew on the new stripes...

Someone check me on this:  As I read CAPM 39-1, we no longer wear the CAP cutouts if we wear the CAP stripes.  True?

The "new" stripes have CAP on them already, so cutouts on the collar are no longer required.

[lordmonar]

I just transitioned into the new NCO structure.  It was more of a process than we thought it would be.  My squadron commander finally got it through by submitting a CAPF 2 reverting me to my rank of SSgt (my former Air Force rank) and a second promoting me to tech base on my ten years TIS as a staff and completion of Level 2.

Now I need to sew on the new stripes...

Someone check me on this:  As I read CAPM 39-1, we no longer wear the CAP cutouts if we wear the CAP stripes.  True?

true.  We wear the U.S. With circles on the service coat.  The Enlisted flight cap with SM badge and stripes with the CAP on them. 

[Falling Hare]

Have just joined and have been too busy to follow what is happening with the new NCO program. 

I think the new CAP-distinctive stripes look great... and congrats to those who are finally able to sew them on!

It will probably be years down the road, but I it will be interesting to see how CAP will develop the program to deal with non-prior service people who
wish to enter the NCO program.  Would love to have my prior-CAP service count toward this. Do keep us  informed.

(Besides, it's getting really lonely out here in SMOGdom)!

[Flying Pig]

Still waiting to hear anything on how having an NCO and officer categories will actually change what anyone does in CAP?  It will always fall to who is willing and able.

[Holding Pattern]

Still waiting to hear anything on how having an NCO and officer categories will actually change what anyone does in CAP?  It will always fall to who is willing and able.

Gee, I'm not sure how having someone with long term experience in a squadron that never gets foisted into a command slot would work. We might have to look to see if anyone has ever done anything like this before! Hopefully we don't lose our Shirt over this...

[goblin]

Still waiting to hear anything on how having an NCO and officer categories will actually change what anyone does in CAP?  It will always fall to who is willing and able.

Gee, I'm not sure how having someone with long term experience in a squadron that never gets foisted into a command slot would work. We might have to look to see if anyone has ever done anything like this before! Hopefully we don't lose our Shirt over this...

I think that's entirely possible with or without CAP NCOs

[AirAux]

Georgia Branch took me as a legal officer with my CAP rank of Major.  Didn't seem to be much of an organization.  Had field grade officer picking up cigarette butts in the local area on police call.  Never really did anything exciting or worthwhile.  Got tired of setting on my butt 16 hours on the weekend..

[Holding Pattern]

Still waiting to hear anything on how having an NCO and officer categories will actually change what anyone does in CAP?  It will always fall to who is willing and able.

Gee, I'm not sure how having someone with long term experience in a squadron that never gets foisted into a command slot would work. We might have to look to see if anyone has ever done anything like this before! Hopefully we don't lose our Shirt over this...

I think that's entirely possible with or without CAP NCOs

Possible? Yes. Probable? Unlikely. There is some appeal to just being an NCO that doesn't get bothered with UCC and TLC and SLS and SOS and RSC and NSC, just focusing instead on Cadet Programs, AEX, and/or ES.

Or have you never seen upper echelon pressure to rotate people into commander slots?