Reserve/Patron members

[RiverAux]

Okay, this apparently is sort of old news as it was in the 2012 version of 39-2, but what do you guys think of changing patron membership to reserve/patron membership as apparently was done? 

As best I can tell it is actually sort of combining two different types of people that become patrons
1) Those who just wish to support CAP financially but never have and never intend to become active members
2) Those who were active members but couldn't or didn't want to keep up with the ongoing safety, etc. requirements but possibly may get back into active duty at some point.

The first type is obviously the traditional "patron" member, but the second is probably more what you might consider a "reserve" member.

I have actually suggested a "CAP Reserve" system in the past http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3840.0 but I saw it more as folks that actually would actively participate in ES, but not many other aspects of CAP.  Obviously quite different from the "reserve" concept that we appear to be using now. 

So, do we like calling them "reserve/patron" or should it just revert to "patron" as was done in the past?

[a2capt]

They had a "CAP Reserve" type membership option previously, and just reading this, can you imagine how well that would work in this era?



No meetings, no uniforms, just come and fly for us?

Talk about sticking a rattler in the middle of the GOB wad.

First of all, the whole thing is volunteer, so you can't really have a reserve, as that means these people -will- act when called. We can't even get 100% of our active people at the same time, and with all this hype and pressure on currency for this, currency for that, review this video before 90 days is up, read that letter, etc. It would just never work.

Move along, move along. These are not the member categories you are looking for.

[LSThiker]

Interesting.  Was this real or just a gag from Iowa?  I wonder who would pick up in Iowa if you called that number?  If it was real, when was this?

[a2capt]

Scanned from Feb 1971 Flying Magazine. As for the Iowa number, because back in the day, you couldn't get a WATS line for both in and out of state, and whoever was answering the phone .. was there.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Heck, some Senior Squadrons I've been around don't like uniforms, so why would something like this be needed?

[Eclipse]

The membership category needs to be removed in favor of categories that are accurate.

The only people who are "members" are those who are Level-I complete and safety current.  Anything else is
someone kidding someone.

Patrons who are not Level-I'ed are not "members" in any way, shape or form.  They are "donors" and should be
characterized and treated as such.  Perhaps a category of "benefactor" would be appropriate, but why, on earth,
NHQ feels the need to send an ID card to people who are not, and have never been, members of CAP, is beyond me.
The answer, of course, is money, with some wings having 000 units as their largest charter, encompassing 1-200
or more patron members.

Patrons who are no longer active, for whatever reason, should be removed from the rolls and placed in "inactive" status in NHQ996,
or another similar charter (though even that is unnecessary).  Scan their records and park them in the corner of eServices.

Why there are 000 units, especially at the Region level is something else that flabbergasts me.  There should be a single
place-holder unit for anyone not assigned to a real charter in active status.

And AFAIC, "active" should at least require Safety Currency, and commander re-certification on a quarterly basis.

[Eclipse]

I wonder who would pick up in Iowa if you called that number?

As a2capt said, it was likley a WATS line accepted collect calls and forwarded them to local numbers.
The number itself appears in Google searches all over the place in books, magazines, and other publications of the era
in ads for related to skiing, boating, and flying, to name a few.

It is an active local number now and is being answered by a confused lady who apparently has received several
hangs-ups this evening.

If it was real, when was this?

At least one magazine is dated March 1971, which would jive with the typography above.

[LSThiker]

It is an active local number now and is being answered by a confused lady who apparently has received several
hangs-ups this evening.

Maybe if I find some time, I will just call and ask them how small-town Iowa is.  I find it interesting that the number is listed as Cedar Falls, IA.  From looking at Google, the town looks small.  I wonder why they chose that place and not Waterloo (which sits next to it and is much larger), Cedar Rapids, or Des Moines?  Maybe someone from Iowa can say.

[LATORRECA]

    Some of us like me are part of the patron squadron because Im deploying constantly and I'm not trying to be a burden to others. While I'm gone.  Or the next CAP unit close to us is 2 hours away.
   
    Just saying!
   

[Майор Хаткевич]

    Some of us like me are part of the patron squadron because Im deploying constantly and I'm not trying to be a burden to others. While I'm gone.  Or the next CAP unit close to us is 2 hours away.
   
    Just saying!
   

That's fine. But you're not a "member",at least not an "active" one, which is the point, as NHQ reports patrons as member numbers.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Back when I was in the BSA, if you were not near a troop, you could become a "Lone Scout."  I wonder if one could become a "Lone CAP member" instead of the "Patron" label.

[Eclipse]

Back when I was in the BSA, if you were not near a troop, you could become a "Lone Scout."  I wonder if one could become a "Lone CAP member" instead of the "Patron" label.

What would the point of that be?

[Shuman 14]

The membership category needs to be removed in favor of categories that are accurate.

The only people who are "members" are those who are Level-I complete and safety current.  Anything else is
someone kidding someone.

Patrons who are not Level-I'ed are not "members" in any way, shape or form.  They are "donors" and should be
characterized and treated as such.  Perhaps a category of "benefactor" would be appropriate, but why, on earth,
NHQ feels the need to send an ID card to people who are not, and have never been, members of CAP, is beyond me.
The answer, of course, is money, with some wings having 000 units as their largest charter, encompassing 1-200
or more patron members.

Patrons who are no longer active, for whatever reason, should be removed from the rolls and placed in "inactive" status in NHQ996,
or another similar charter (though even that is unnecessary).  Scan their records and park them in the corner of eServices.

Why there are 000 units, especially at the Region level is something else that flabbergasts me.  There should be a single
place-holder unit for anyone not assigned to a real charter in active status.

And AFAIC, "active" should at least require Safety Currency, and commander re-certification on a quarterly basis.

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

[rustyjeeper]

Back when I was in the BSA, if you were not near a troop, you could become a "Lone Scout."  I wonder if one could become a "Lone CAP member" instead of the "Patron" label.

What would the point of that be?

Tactikewl sounding 

kinda like the Army's  "
Army of one"

[Eclipse]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

[LATORRECA]

   
I guess some of us can be consider member while others are just are benefactor ( Eclipse). I see what you all saying they should never been consider members and count towards our numbers. I have scroll thought the roster from the unit and they are some people in there that have done nothing at all to at least meet the minimum requirements.
    I call NHQ and I told them about my situation that I been transfer to Chile but I didn't want my membership expired.  They propose to join in the patron squadron with the rest of the money donors. I was not looking to do that at all, but for the past years I have been in a unit in wish I could not participate on any activity since I was gone all the time. Once a year on when I could I show up to my unit and participated on one or two events trough the whole year. I still want to progress on my PD requirements but I don't know who
   NC wing doesn't have a unit to put the senior members in my situation. Eventually I don't want to be burden to others by not been current on my safety or any mandatory training. However, I do not want to get my membership expire and loose what I have work for the past 6 years. I already went trough that. Between 2002 to 2008 I lost all my records and past rank. Restarted from scratch.

   Eventually the only answer is to create a unit for member in which can't be active all the time, but still can participated on activities whenever they can and not count against no one when we can't be there to be current on things. It can be done. A lone wolf or army of one like someone said.

[JeffDG]

   
I guess some of us can be consider member while others are just are benefactor ( Eclipse). I see what you all saying they should never been consider members and count towards our numbers. I have scroll thought the roster from the unit and they are some people in there that have done nothing at all to at least meet the minimum requirements.
    I call NHQ and I told them about my situation that I been transfer to Chile but I didn't want my membership expired.  They propose to join in the patron squadron with the rest of the money donors. I was not looking to do that at all, but for the past years I have been in a unit in wish I could not participate on any activity since I was gone all the time. Once a year on when I could I show up to my unit and participated on one or two events trough the whole year. I still want to progress on my PD requirements but I don't know who
   NC wing doesn't have a unit to put the senior members in my situation. Eventually I don't want to be burden to others by not been current on my safety or any mandatory training. However, I do not want to get my membership expire and loose what I have work for the past 6 years. I already went trough that. Between 2002 to 2008 I lost all my records and past rank. Restarted from scratch.

   Eventually the only answer is to create a unit for member in which can't be active all the time, but still can participated on activities whenever they can and not count against no one when we can't be there to be current on things. It can be done. A lone wolf or army of one like someone said.

Actually, every wing has a -000 unit that doesn't count against safety currency and such.  Also, a Patron member can be a member of any unit...and Patrons are not counted against safety or mandatory training currency either.

[LATORRECA]

When I asked here on the forum the answer I got was to join the patron squadron. So, I did.  No regrets. I got a new set of order so as soon I can transfer, I go back to a regular unit.

[Shuman 14]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Gee, I don't know...

It might... spur an interested Patron to learn more about CAP, which in turn might prompt them to become an active member.

It might... afford an active member, who because of "real life" issues, is forced to step back into a Patron status, an opportunity to continue their self-development education while they are dealing with those issues.

There's two reasons that jump right out at me.

[Storm Chaser]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Eclipse is absolutely correct. "A reserve/patron member is a financial supporter..." (emphasis mine) -- CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b

Any patron wishing to complete Level 1 or participate in other training can easily become an "active" member. If their personal circumstances change, they can always become a patron again. There's no requirement for "active" members to attend a set number of meetings, so membership can accommodate different individuals and their particular circumstances.