Unpublished requirements/unwritten policies

[DoubleSecret]

Do any of your respective regions and wings have unpublished requirements/unwritten policies for processing certain actions, or is everything all aboveboard and set forth in appropriate regulations and supplements?  If your regions and wings impose unpublished requirements, how does it promote any mission objective in CAP?  How does it motivate volunteers?

My Level IV application meets every written requirement for approval, but after an inordinate amount of time in limbo I'm informed that higher headquarters wants a "dossier" on me to support this action.  No one has promulgated any regulation about this, it's just a double secret roadblock to progression.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has dealt with this.  I'd also love it if any commander who imposes such requirements would weigh in and explain their rationale.  If it's a rule, why not be proud of it and publish it for all to see?  Why hide the ball?

[Eclipse]

Everybody has to deal with fifedoms, if you're Level IV eligible, you already know that.

Level IV has nothing subjective, either you can substantiate the requirements completed or you can't.

If someone if being an impediment, file a complaint.

There's no relief for you here, regardless of deserved empathy.

[NIN]

Don't forget, the approving authority for a Lt Col is Region. Unless you're a really vocal dude or from the Region Commander's home wing, chances are you're an unknown.  I don't think its unreasonable for the region commander to want a "package" (ie. "Who is this guy, why should I sign off on him" kind of thing) on a promotion that isn't just a CAPF 2 that appears in the mail one day.

That said, I think it is incumbent upon regions to publish information or a supplement to the promotion procedures so that volunteers are able to "do it right the first time" and aren't frustrated by "tribal knowledge" procedures that, while maybe clear at region, aren't obvious or even understood at any echelon below that.

[a2capt]

Level IV ..  not Lt Col. Though one is required for the other. The Level IV is pretty darn straight forward, on the paper.

If someone wants to hold it up, they have the opportunity at a review board for the grade promotion.

[Eclipse]

Did you send a CAPF 24 as a single sheet of paper and expect it to pass go?

If so, that's on you - the 24 should have included a copy of any and all documentation that substantiates the
request.  Not everything required is in eServices.  No CC worth his salt would forward a 24 like that.

If you sent up a full packet, then they shouldn't need more.  Level IV doesn't call for a narrative.

Second question - which "higher headquarters?"  A 24 for LIV takes 3 2 signatures before a Region Wing CC sees it.
If the Region Wing PDO is being unreasonable, he should have 3 2 loud voices supporting you.

Edit: Corrected.

[NIN]

Level IV ..  not Lt Col. Though one is required for the other. The Level IV is pretty darn straight forward, on the paper.

If someone wants to hold it up, they have the opportunity at a review board for the grade promotion.

Oh, hmmm. Yeah, completion of PD is just ... requirements.

[LSThiker]

Second question - which "higher headquarters?"  A 24 for LIV takes 3 signatures before a Region CC sees it.
If the Region PDO is being unreasonable, he should have 3 loud voices supporting you.

Level IV is not approved by the region.  It is approved by Wing CC and forwarded to NHQ as per CAPR 50-17, 6-4.

Level V is the only one that requires region approval. 

[EMT-83]

There is absolutely no excuse for this. You can't just make up your own rules.

[a2capt]

Unless you've got some CC in the chain that "has to be involved in everything", like one of our previous group commanders, that he was adamant that anything going "up" had to go through him. Even stuff that units send directly to NHQ. Rather than argue, just cc: 'em and let them eventually get tired of it, and realize they don't need everything. Lest they come back to you with "what am I supposed to do with this?" .. "nothing. It's been taken care of. Let me know when you're tired of being bothered."

[Eclipse]

Second question - which "higher headquarters?"  A 24 for LIV takes 3 signatures before a Region CC sees it.
If the Region PDO is being unreasonable, he should have 3 loud voices supporting you.

Level IV is not approved by the region.  It is approved by Wing CC and forwarded to NHQ as per CAPR 50-17, 6-4.

Level V is the only one that requires region approval.

You are, of course, correct - weird that Region approves Lt Col but Wing approves the corresponding PD.
Probably because, as mentioned, it's just supposed to be a ticket punch.

The 24 does indicate that unsubstantiated submissions will be rejected.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Oh, hmmm. Yeah, completion of PD is just ... requirements.

How well I know.

[lordmonar]

This is probable just bureaucratic mish-mash.

Question 1.  What is this Dossier that they want?

If it is just copies of all the certs and stuff.....then I can agree with it.  It is just some staffer being extra anal because he got burned (or his wing king did) for just accepting a bad 24 at face value.

If they are asking for stuff that is outside of the regulations......then that is a no-no and you need to start up-chaining a complaint.

Question 2.  Define "inordinate amount of time"?

30-60 days is where I would think is "normal" for a decision to be made....account for someone being on leave, etc.
By all means you should follow up on any applications after 60 days....and you don't need to go through the chain for it.....go right to the Wing PDO and ask him/her if they have seen it....and then trace it back from there. 

If you think someone is doing something wrong...by all means use your chain of command and/or IG system to get satisfaction.

Good luck.

[Lord of the North]

Second question - which "higher headquarters?"  A 24 for LIV takes 3 signatures before a Region CC sees it.
If the Region PDO is being unreasonable, he should have 3 loud voices supporting you.

Level IV is not approved by the region.  It is approved by Wing CC and forwarded to NHQ as per CAPR 50-17, 6-4.

Level V is the only one that requires region approval.

You are, of course, correct - weird that Region approves Lt Col but Wing approves the corresponding PD.
Probably because, as mentioned, it's just supposed to be a ticket punch.

The 24 does indicate that unsubstantiated submissions will be rejected.

Unless of course you use the recently implemented on-line PD award module which gives you no way to attach any documentation of items not in e-services.

[ColonelJack]

Unless of course you use the recently implemented on-line PD award module which gives you no way to attach any documentation of items not in e-services.

Yet another reason I am forever glad to have finished my PD long before the computer became lord and master of the Admin Office.  You know, back when the SMTLR came on green and white alternate stripe paper with dot-matrix printing?  (Every cadet reading this just wondered, "Huh?  What's he talking about?")

Jack

[AlphaSigOU]

Second question - which "higher headquarters?"  A 24 for LIV takes 3 signatures before a Region CC sees it.
If the Region PDO is being unreasonable, he should have 3 loud voices supporting you.

Level IV is not approved by the region.  It is approved by Wing CC and forwarded to NHQ as per CAPR 50-17, 6-4.

Level V is the only one that requires region approval.

You are, of course, correct - weird that Region approves Lt Col but Wing approves the corresponding PD.
Probably because, as mentioned, it's just supposed to be a ticket punch.

The 24 does indicate that unsubstantiated submissions will be rejected.

Unless of course you use the recently implemented on-line PD award module which gives you no way to attach any documentation of items not in e-services.

Don't even get me started on that Charlie Fox of an eServices module... Absolutely zero documentation and/or tutorials on how to work the module. I had to create an 'unofficial' tutorial to educate the squadron PDOs in Alabama Wing on how to use it. At least ALWG has APATS (Alabama Wing Personnel Action Tracking System) that is a whole hell of a lot better than that kludge!

[DoubleSecret]

Snipped quote:

This is probable just bureaucratic mish-mash.

Question 1.  What is this Dossier that they want?

Question 2.  Define "inordinate amount of time"?

1.  Stuff outside of the regulations and unrelated to the requirements for the award.
2.  Held up after Squadron level for less than 60 days.

If I do something formal, we all know what that would do to my chances of promotion.  Discretion, etc.

Thanks to all for weighing in.

[LSThiker]

1.  Stuff outside of the regulations and unrelated to the requirements for the award.

Need to elaborate.  Otherwise, it sounds as those you are whining.  So what stuff outside of the regulations?

2.  Held up after Squadron level for less than 60 days.

Sounds about par for the course really.  I would not say this is an "inordinate amount of time".  A bit long, but not "inordinate amount".

[DoubleSecret]

1.  Stuff outside of the regulations and unrelated to the requirements for the award.

Need to elaborate.  Otherwise, it sounds as those you are whining.  So what stuff outside of the regulations?

Pass.  If I'm too specific, someone might recognize themselves and connect the dots to me, and use it for reprisal.

[NIN]

1.  Stuff outside of the regulations and unrelated to the requirements for the award.

Need to elaborate.  Otherwise, it sounds as those you are whining.  So what stuff outside of the regulations?

Pass.  If I'm too specific, someone might recognize themselves and connect the dots to me, and use it for reprisal.

OK, but I guess my question is: What are the requirements? A "dossier"? really?  did someone really use that word?

Hard to make an objective answer / cogent arguement with little data.

I'm not saying its right, BTW. I think PD stuff should be pretty black and white, hard and fast requirements from one side of the country to another: You completed course X, requirement Y, and did A, B & C.  Here's your [Loening/Garber/GRW], etc.

[Eclipse]

If I do something formal, we all know what that would do to my chances of promotion.  Discretion, etc.

Increase them?  You're not getting promoted now, anyway.