Good old boy network!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Almost everyone I talk with seems to agree that for CAP the squadron is the most important echelon. Sure, the other echelons are valuable, but were they to disappear CAP could still serve America because the squadron is our basic operational unit where CAP meets the communities we serve.

That line is in the SLS course materials.

Of course at the end of the SLS, where we were told that we're serving at the most important level of CAP, the wing staff then tried to encourage us to apply to wing level posts... :angel:

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Promotions are about the only way that you can recognize volunteers.

Then why do we make them so hard to get for some and almost automatic for others, depending in far too many cases on "who you know?"

As I've stated before, I am a very reserved type in person and not one to put myself forward.  I have never served above Squadron level, but I'd like to think I've done well at that (I would say that my Commander's Commendation is proof of that, but unfortunately those seem to get handed out like treats at Hallowe'en by the GOBN).  A lot of it has to do as well with health reasons that have cropped up in the past 10 years or so.  My involvement in CAP is much more limited than it was when I was a much younger second lieutenant in 1993; but am I less valuable (promotable) to CAP because of health reasons beyond my control?  Also, I was single back in the day.  I'm married now, and have other activities I'm involved in, especially church.  Before I was married, I lived CAP like it was almost Active Duty; any time I wasn't with an employer I was doing CAP work.

Ultimately, the duty of the promotion board is not to promote whose due, but rather whose deserving.

And we decide that how?  If it's on the basis of who is the most visible and active, I'm not very deserving, I suppose.

Years ago when I joined, you never saw anything but company grade officers and warrant offices at squadron and group level, some majors, and rarely saw a lieutenant colonel.

And, as I have stated, I wish that warrant officer grades still existed...I would much rather be promoted on my ability to do my job than my ability at personal interaction.

My personal favorite, however, was back in the 70s when I was doing both administrative and personnel officer duties for a squadron in the PA Wing. We had a member re-join who was a personal friend of Gill Robb Wilson (for real) who was returning to the CAP from a long absence and the group commander wouldn't restore his rank of captain largely for political purposes -- he felt threatened.

Even Erich Hartmann, the highest-scoring Ace in history, suffered from this.  He was captured by the Americans and turned over to the Soviets as a Major.  He endured 12 years of Soviet captivity with the NKVD trying their hardest to break him (even offering him a commission in the East German Air Force) and failing.  When he was finally released and rejoined the Luftwaffe, he almost had to come in as a Captain, but he did get his Major rank back.  However, he never made it any higher than Oberst (Colonel) because he had a tendency to call it as he saw it (especially regarding the F-104) and didn't play politics.  It was said of him, "Erich is a good pilot but not a good officer."

He even stood up to Hitler, refusing to take his pistol belt off when he was awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross...that could have been more hazardous to his health than anything!

I'm not in any way comparing myself to Oberst Hartmann, but I can understand his mindset about playing politics a bit.

Unfortunately, CAP sometimes doesn't have a similar understanding.

[Simplex]

Thanks everyone for your input!

[Private Investigator]

So, if squadrons are so critical, why is there a bias against people who choose to serve at that echelon, as demonstrated by this "must serve at Group or Wing" business?

Were I king for a day, I'd try to get the very best people in CAP to agree to serve as squadron commanders. I'd do that by exalting the squadron commander position -- it'd be the "coolest" and "best paying" job in CAP and no random wing staffer would dare be less than helpful to a unit commander.

I remember 20+ years ago when a Squadron Commander who was a Major said the only way to get beyond Captain or get a Senior or Master rating was by being on Group and/or Wing Staff and that is how he ran his little kingdom since we did not have term limits then.

Actually Squadron Commander is the 'coolest' assignment, in three year tours. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I remember 20+ years ago when a Squadron Commander who was a Major said the only way to get beyond Captain or get a Senior or Master rating was by being on Group and/or Wing Staff and that is how he ran his little kingdom since we did not have term limits then.

If it is still that way, I don't stand a chance of pinning on Major, even though I have my Grover Loening, Master's rating (Administration) and all my other ducks in a row.

[Garibaldi]

I remember 20+ years ago when a Squadron Commander who was a Major said the only way to get beyond Captain or get a Senior or Master rating was by being on Group and/or Wing Staff and that is how he ran his little kingdom since we did not have term limits then.

If it is still that way, I don't stand a chance of pinning on Major, even though I have my Grover Loening, Master's rating (Administration) and all my other ducks in a row.

I don't know about all that, but I hit Major and Level 3 in 2000 and have never had a position of responsibility higher than assistant-to. I don't plan on going any higher than this because I really can't afford to take time off for RSC and I don't quite have a college degree so I can't take SOS or any of the other on-line schools to get out of going.

[Private Investigator]

I did not think I could do RSC either. But luckily I took it right after I retired and before the economy took a dump. Now I am working so much I can not make it to weekend activities.

I think for the most part CAP has gotten away from the good old boy network but a few old timers like it their way. The bad part is we have new members who think good old boy and want to network that way, JMHO.

[Critical AOA]

I have never been in any organization where there wasn't at least some semblance of a good 'ol boys club.  Whether it was a civilian job, the Army, CAP or another organization, it always exists in some form.  It takes solid leadership to eliminate or at the very least to mitigate it.   Unfortunately, that is sometimes lacking even in CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have never been in any organization where there wasn't at least some semblance of a good 'ol boys club.  Whether it was a civilian job, the Army, CAP or another organization, it always exists in some form.  It takes solid leadership to eliminate or at the very least to mitigate it.   Unfortunately, that is sometimes lacking even in CAP.

Your point is well taken.

However, to use your other examples:

Army: Service discipline/RHIP limits what the average Soldier can do to limit the GOBN.

Civilian employment: I was never any good at office politics.  I'm still not.  I usually don't say much, but if you ask me a question, you're going to get an answer, and it may not be very tactfully-worded.  In that environment, you can do about anything you like to buck the GOBN, but the end result could be a boot out the door.

I noticed some of it in the CGAUX but not to the extent it seems to permeate CAP.

[Private Investigator]

Civilian employment: I was never any good at office politics.  I'm still not.  I usually don't say much, but if you ask me a question, you're going to get an answer, and it may not be very tactfully-worded.  In that environment, you can do about anything you like to buck the GOBN, but the end result could be a boot out the door.

Same thing in the police department. Depending on who's in command makes a difference if you are "in" or "out".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Same thing in the police department. Depending on who's in command makes a difference if you are "in" or "out".

I imagine that would be somewhat akin to the military, wouldn't it?

After all, you do have captains, lieutenants, sergeants and corporals.

[RogueLeader]

Same thing in the police department. Depending on who's in command makes a difference if you are "in" or "out".

I imagine that would be somewhat akin to the military, wouldn't it?

After all, you do have captains, lieutenants, sergeants and corporals.

The difference in the military is that they won't be there for too long.  a few years at best, then they get promoted and or PCS/ETS.