Good old boy network!

[Simplex]

We have two majors in our squadron that are overdue for promotion. Overdue by years, not just weeks or months. Both have reached Level V, met all requirements, and have both been turned down three times by wing promotion board. Having just been appointed as our squadron PDO I started asking questions. I did not like what I learned. Apparently the good old boy network is alive and well in our wing. And for a volunteer organization I find that disgusting! One major was told a year of wing staff position was required. The other was told their previous wing position didn't count. Apparently promotion to major and above has turned into a popularity contest. I had thought better of our wing staff, but as someone has said, it is what it is.
Have any of you folks found the same to be true in your various wings?

[Garibaldi]

I heard something similar from WIWG, that promotion required a wing position.

[arajca]

I've heard of such things, but I haven't seen them.

If you want to push the issue, refer to CAPR 35-5, CAP OFFICER AND NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER APPOINTMENTS AND PROMOTIONS, Para 1-1:

1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

emphasis mine

I presume you're talking about Duty Performance promotions, not any of the special ones.

[Simplex]

Yes Sir, that's correct!

[RogueLeader]

I've never seen it happen.  I would gather all the evidence I could and send it to the Region IG, with an explanation of why you are bypassing Wing IG.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I've heard quite a few rumblings from a lot of CAP members that they will hit Major and that's the end of it. Seems that if you don't want to do wing staff, you don't get past it.

YMMV

[Pylon]

Prior commanders in my AO have refused to grant promotion to Major to those without current (not prior) duty assignment service at the Group level.  While the regulation says higher HQ cannot add supplementary requirements, the promoting authority still has discretion to approve or deny a promotion.  What reasons they can use in their discretion (assuming its not an EEO issue, which this is not) is really up to the commander.

I think to deny these promotions on such a basis is a poor leadership behavior that discourages dedicated volunteers over something that is, when it comes down to it, trivial to CAP and costs the organization nothing.  That being said, I still think it falls within a commander's purview to approve or deny promotions and that the IG won't be able to help in this situation.  Truly a lose-lose for CAP.  I would hate to see someone who is dedicated enough to the organization to earn a duty performance promotion to Major (no small feat) to end up being discouraged, disgruntled, and potentially leave over such a matter.  When in doubt, we should strive to go out of our way to recognize our volunteers in every way possible -- not hold back recognition.

[Camas]

I served on my wing promotions board for a time and I can tell ya - one had better have a very good reason for denying a promotion if requirements IAW CAPR 35-5 were met to include professional development requirements, time in grade and performance in an exemplary manner.

Serving at the wing or group level for field grade promotions makes no sense and, if it's not in CAPR 35-5 I can only ask - what's going on??

[Garibaldi]

When I move to my new unit, I think I will make no mention of TIG or anything regarding promotion for quite some time, since I don't know what their policies are regarding promotion to LTC. I haven't dealt with GAWG as a senior.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I served on my wing promotions board for a time and I can tell ya - one had better have a very good reason for denying a promotion if requirements IAW CAPR 35-5 were met to include professional development requirements, time in grade and performance in an exemplary manner.

Serving at the wing or group level for field grade promotions makes no sense and, if it's not in CAPR 35-5 I can only ask - what's going on??

Some folks have taken upon themselves to rid CAP of "All those old LtCols"?

[Garibaldi]

I served on my wing promotions board for a time and I can tell ya - one had better have a very good reason for denying a promotion if requirements IAW CAPR 35-5 were met to include professional development requirements, time in grade and performance in an exemplary manner.

Serving at the wing or group level for field grade promotions makes no sense and, if it's not in CAPR 35-5 I can only ask - what's going on??

Some folks have taken upon themselves to rid CAP of "All those old LtCols"?

Yeah I was wondering about that. I know we don't have an "up or out" but isn't there some kind of limit on the number of LTC spots? Eventually, we're gonna be butt deep in silver oak leaves, I'd think.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I heard that there were a lot of "do nothing silver oak leaves" six-seven years ago and that "wing is finally making it mean something".

Seven years later apparently that something is wing staff service...

[Thrashed]

Who cares how many LtCols there are. Why would it even matter? If they did everything and earned it, let them have it and keep it. CAP can afford to have that many LtCols on the payroll.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Who cares how many LtCols there are. Why would it even matter? If they did everything and earned it, let them have it and keep it. CAP can afford to have that many LtCols on the payroll.

But then what's the point of review boards? How will those members feel important (who make the rules and titles for these boards). Sure, you can call up the commander of the members unit, see what they are like, verify that everything for promotion is ready, but then where's the fun of a phone/in person board where you get to feel powerful? 

[SarDragon]

Check out the various 200 series pamphlets. I recall that some actually require service at the group or wing level to complete senior or master ratings. Depending on the PD track, there may be a valid delay.

[lordmonar]

I would submit them for promotion.....if/when they get kicked back....ask specifcally why...if it is for some BS "need a wing staff position" rule....do an IG complaint to Region and go from there.

[Ned]

Semi-deliberate thread shift:

There is some irony that many of the same folks who complain that Lt Col in CAP "doesn't mean anything" are the same folks who complain when a hypothetical promotion board /group, wing, or region commander tries to make it "mean something" by favoring applicants with wing or higher service.

It is axiomatic that promotion standards should be uniform, consistent, and transparent.  And administered without bias or favoritism.  And unsuccessful applicants should receive feedback on exactly what they need to do to become successful.  I suspect we can all agree on that.

But I do enjoy a little irony now and then on CT.

Ned Lee

[arajca]

It's one thing to complain it doesn't mean anything. It's entirely different when group/wing/region deicide to violate the regs to make it mean something.

You would probably hear some complaining if National decided to change the requirements EVENLY thoughout CAP, but most would not complain and many would probably applaud the move. However, at this time, you have different levels trying to apply their own personal preferences in a seemingly arbitrary manner in violation of CAP regs. That's what causes the current crop of complaints, along with the lack of these preferences being codified in written form so members can be aware of them before being spit upon.

[Eclipse]

Have they been denied or deferred?

If they have been denied, the approving authority must provide the reason for the denial - if the reason is based on an added objective criteria such as
required staff service, then you will have grounds for a sustainable complaint.

If they are simply not acted upon, there is not much you can do beyond addressing it with the Wing CC, since there is no specific requirement
on a time frame for action, nor action of any kind at all (unless your wing has a supplement or OI to that effect).

Not saying it's right, just that it "is".

[RiverAux]

I served on my wing promotions board for a time and I can tell ya - one had better have a very good reason for denying a promotion if requirements IAW CAPR 35-5 were met to include professional development requirements, time in grade and performance in an exemplary manner.

Serving at the wing or group level for field grade promotions makes no sense and, if it's not in CAPR 35-5 I can only ask - what's going on??

Some folks have taken upon themselves to rid CAP of "All those old LtCols"?

Yeah I was wondering about that. I know we don't have an "up or out" but isn't there some kind of limit on the number of LTC spots? Eventually, we're gonna be butt deep in silver oak leaves, I'd think.

Well, we've had essentially the same promotion requirements for decades and there is absolutely no evidence that we're getting overrun with Lt. Cols.  In fact, if you analyze the number of senior members at various grades in CAP you'll see just what the system expects ---  there are way more Lts. than Captains, way more Captains than Majors and way more Majors than Lt. Cols.