CAP Volunteer Service Clashing With Employer Expectations

[JeffDG]

CAP dont pay the bills

And that applies regardless of whatever "protection" legislation there is.

Seriously, if you need to invoke some kind of statute to protect you job if you leave for CAP duty, then you've neglected your relationship with your management at work rather badly.  Explain what you're doing and generally most companies are very supportive.

[Major Carrales]

The matter that exists is that CAPNHQ has to take this very real concept into it's decision making processes.  If things are to, let's say, be made mandatory...then there must be allowances for the angle of work and the negative effects that the employer/employee relationship must have.

Say, for example, that an SLS or CLC curriculum was made a WEEK LONG or other such course was made a mandatory item to remain out of the "Ghost Squadrons" and "No Fly Lists."  The idea of making these things longer in time or madatory seems like the logical extention of a rigorous training program...however, if SLS or CLC was made a week long thing (like a SENIOR ENCAMPMENT or some other hypothetically ridiculous notion used here only for shock value and hyperbole) very few people could attend it without using vacation time. I could, for example, only do it in the summer when I had SUMMER BREAK.  Other workers would not have such luxury.  Then, if you could swing a week's time...would not a family trip be the greater matter if one had a family.

When making decisions NATIONALLY, or even at a WING and SQUADRON LEVEL, the realities of life have to have a major coefficient in the equation.

If not...and the descision has to be made to either "have a job" or "Attend some function mandated by some distant command," employment is the clear choice.  After all...UNEMPLOYMENT isn't WORKING!!!

[Flying Pig]

People roll their eyes, but I never attended SLS, UCC or any other CAP "school" for that matter.  I always wanted to but whenever they came up, I was working (Yes, over the weekend)  My vacations are based around aircraft maintenance schedules usually.  The hard dates I had were for family vacations. 
The one time I was signed up for SLS, I was called into work the night before and ended up flying a mission all weekend.  And I somehow managed to create a great Sq staff and end up with one of the top units in Pacific Region and CAWG (I have a plaque to prove it )  Ive had a few people who pointed out that I had no issues finding time to fly.  Yup.....that's because the department looked at flying in CAP as training they didnt have to pay for and allowed me to go as part of my work week.  Hard to disregard a week long free mountain flying course!

If people work for companies or organizations that allow that, and you arent stretching the facts to get it, go for it.  But lets face it, if it comes down to flexing legal muscle in order to volunteer, at least in the world I live in, you had better be a very high value employee! 

[Major Carrales]

Another angle here is "quality"of the "deployment."  If I tell my boss, "Sir, a hurricane hit the Northern part of Texas, they need people to go and I am qualified..."

He would most likely let me go, however, if I am asking for minor things, classes and the like...then I would rather throw my "card" for the larger activity.

Then again, I have created the situation where squadron and work are interrelated.  We meet at the school where I work and cadets are now part of the "culture" there.  This creates some issues...unique ones, but the greater issues are good.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My experiences with CAP and employers have been mixed.

Some employers have refused to hire me because of CAP.  A former friend of mine who was also a business manager said he'd never hire a CAP member, much less an ANG or AFRES member.  He said "you guys get sent to the Middle East every time Saddam Hussein farts."  I told him that wasn't true of CAP and he knew it, but he said "I just don't want to be bothered with an employee going off for a weekend like you do and I can't call them in if needed."  This was in the days when cell phones were in their infancy.  Now you see one reason he's a former friend.

One employer was openly hostile to me about CAP.  The young woman who interviewed and hired me was former Air Force and had a favourable opinion of CAP.  However, when I reported for my first day of work, she had got fired!   During my three years there, I never asked for any time off that I didn't already have, but they still maintained their attitude.  One of the managers used to say "go play army" when I went to a squadron meeting.  My direct supervisor used to say "you better thank me and my tax dollars" for weekend CLC, SLS, etc. when we were authorised to stay on base in VOQ, eat at the dining hall at reduced rates, etc.  My squadron CC said "the hell with them...let them schlep around looking for a downed aircraft, bore holes in the sky trying to locate an ELT and not get paid for it, try to make a difference in some kid's life and have to buy out-of-pocket virtually everything you need."

However, at one job I had, my direct supervisor (who also interviewed me) was retired Air Force.  In one of the interviews he told me "I used to see CAP people on nearly every base I worked on.  You guys do what you do for the Air Force and don't get a dime for it."  He later told me that my CAP service was a big reason why he hired me, because he believed CAP people to be motivated and disciplined. :clap:  Needless to say, he never had a problem letting me off for CAP duty...and on one Monday after I'd been a scanner in sub-zero weather looking for an ELT (didn't find it  ) the previous day he saw how weary I was and told me to go home and get some rest.

[Johnny Yuma]

Most places it's not about the time volunteering, it's the kind of volunteering you do. The Chief of Police for Topeka PD runs all over the state of Kansas on weekends and other occasions refereeing basketball games, usually he's driving his city owned police car to do it, too.

I'd say if the real reason he's resigning is due to work (CAP,Inc. politics FTW!)  then CAP must not be relevent to his employer's agenda.

[bflynn]

...he'd never hire a CAP member...

One employer was openly hostile to me about CAP. ...

... he believed CAP people to be motivated and disciplined. ...

As a still relatively new member, I can say that this roughly corresponds to non employment reactions I've gotten.  Many people I talked to had negative encouters with CAP personnel in the past and had nothing good to say about it.  Others reacted positively.  It isn't necessarily the employment situation that impacts this.

When it comes to whether or not CAP impacts your value to your employer, that's their call.  Just looking at in impassionately, if I have two workers and one works every day and is available on weekends if needed, but the other is talking about the possibility of getting called in to search for a crashed pilot, then the first employee is more valuable to my business.  The second is more valuable to my community.  It becomes a personal call as to which one is more valuable.  In a corporation, where everyone has a job by the grace of the collective shareholders, it's probably the first.  In a small company with a community minded owner, the second may be considered better.

[Nolan Teel]

If anything I've found I have to work more to cover the cost of CAP... I mean has anyone seen the cost of Ink these Days?

[RADIOMAN015]

...he'd never hire a CAP member...

One employer was openly hostile to me about CAP. ...

... he believed CAP people to be motivated and disciplined. ...

As a still relatively new member, I can say that this roughly corresponds to non employment reactions I've gotten.  Many people I talked to had negative encouters with CAP personnel in the past and had nothing good to say about it.  Others reacted positively.  It isn't necessarily the employment situation that impacts this.

When it comes to whether or not CAP impacts your value to your employer, that's their call.  Just looking at in impassionately, if I have two workers and one works every day and is available on weekends if needed, but the other is talking about the possibility of getting called in to search for a crashed pilot, then the first employee is more valuable to my business.  The second is more valuable to my community.  It becomes a personal call as to which one is more valuable.  In a corporation, where everyone has a job by the grace of the collective shareholders, it's probably the first.  In a small company with a community minded owner, the second may be considered better.

There's a lot of qualified people looking for jobs.  Employers hire people they expect to be on the job every day focused on assisting the company/organization/ government agency with meeting its' goals.   Most do not want to hire people that might not show up for work due to a variety of reasons, including volunteering in another organization.    ANYONE who is looking for a job needs to be very careful when they discuss their volunteer activities and be sure the interviewer understands that the job will come first.

Of course on the other hand the purpose of a job interview is also for the prospective employee to evaluate the employer and he/she may find that it will not be a good fit.   HOWEVER, I've seen some pretty desperate people come in for interviews (e.g. unemployment benefits just about running out) (we allow job applications to be filled out, even if we are not hiring at the time) and they are willing to do just about  anything.
RM
   

[RiverAux]

My employer has always been very supportive of my CAP (and CG Aux) activities even when they weren't required to be. 

However, CAP is really no different than any other volunteer organization that someone might be a member of.  I suppose that if you were the equivalent of the Region Commander in the Lions Club it could take a whole lot of time and personal expense. 

Now, this is totally unscientific, but those who tend to be leaders in CAP tend to come from the "professional" levels of society.   People in those types of jobs usually have some amount of flexibility about when they do their work. 

You generally don't see blue-collar time-card punchers in CAP and even more rarely see them in upper leadership.  Obviously, there are exceptions and I can think of a few, but they are the exceptions.

[davidsinn]

You generally don't see blue-collar time-card punchers in CAP and even more rarely see them in upper leadership.  Obviously, there are exceptions and I can think of a few, but they are the exceptions.

This is pretty accurate. I used to be a professional(CAD drafter) and it worked great with CAP. Now I work landscaping. I didn't make it to the meeting this last week because we were working until dusk just to keep ahead of the grass. I'm going to have that problem a lot this summer. I clocked 58 hours over six days this week it would have been more except we got rained out Friday. That's not conducive to CAP duties.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

ANYONE who is looking for a job needs to be very careful when they discuss their volunteer activities and be sure the interviewer understands that the job will come first.

And I have.  I've always taken the attitude with employers that "what you see is what you get."

That said, I applied for one job where the interviewer was likely a member of the Mennonite Church, who are pacifists.  I emphasised the part of CAP service that focussed on lifesaving, but he still wasn't too thrilled.  I didn't get the job.  Que sera sera.

[PHall]

You generally don't see blue-collar time-card punchers in CAP and even more rarely see them in upper leadership.  Obviously, there are exceptions and I can think of a few, but they are the exceptions.

Careful with the sterotypes, they will come back to bite you...

Myself, I've worked for AT&T for 26 years and I've managed to do both CAP and ANG/USAFR with minimal problems.
You just need to keep everybody informed.

I know a number of CAP members who are "blue collar" employees who have had no problems participating.

It's all in the communications....

[RiverAux]

Actually, I'm fairly confident with this stereotype because it is true.  In general, those in non-professional jobs don't have as much leeway to either participate in CAP activities or don't want to spend the money it takes to participate in CAP.  And I'm not talking about the stereotypical doctors who are CAP pilots.  CAP is generally a middle/upper-middle class organization.  That doesn't mean that everybody falls in that category, but most do. 

[Eclipse]

Most people with regular jobs work 9-5 and then go home.  No one, including their employers, cares a whit what they do from 5-9 or on weekends, as long as they show up from 9-5.

These people may not have the flexibility to be Wing CC's, but they make up the core of our membership.

[jimmydeanno]

My senior members are all comprised of white-collar professionals.  Not because we shun other folks, but because the other folks typically have to work nights, weekends, don't have schedule flexibility, etc.  It's just the way it works sometimes, I suppose.

My current seniors, of all ages, all work M-F, 8:00-4:00, and have at least four weeks of vacation a year.

[Major Carrales]

How much of this is also depenent on "work ethic."  I do a lot for my employer...extra duties, taking on project with minimal or no compensation for "the good of the school."  I hope I prove that I am in it for the long haul and care about the work.

I.E....the school bell rings at 3:56, but don't go home until 6 or 7, teaching VIOLIN, running a Broadcast Radio club and the school news paper after school on mondays and wednesday.  Also, the Cadet meet there after school tuesdays and thursdays and tutoring on friday.

I have noticed, that if I need to be off for something, the answer might still be no, but I have provided a level of "worth" that might allow for some level of understanding.

[754837]

I have been an executive with a municipal law enforcement agency (mid size) and am now an exec with a federal agency.  Both agencies were always pleased when members were involved in community & volunteer programs but we almost always required members of the agency to use approved leave to participate when a schedule conflict arose.  One exception was that officers were allowed to attend meetings during their meal time provided that they were able to respond if needed (and assuming the meeting site was close to or on the officer's district.

As you can tell, I am new to this site.  I have not figured out how to spell check my posts!

[PA Guy]

I never found it necessary to inform my employers of my volunteer activities.  What I do on my time is my business.

[PHall]

I never found it necessary to inform my employers of my volunteer activities.  What I do on my time is my business.

It helps when you're asking for time off from work. Of course if you have tons of vacation time available....