CAP Volunteer Service Clashing With Employer Expectations

[RADIOMAN015]

Interestingly another website is reporting that a Regional Commander has tended his resignation due to his employer's expectation of him being on the job and not off on CAP business.  Apparently he accepted a promotion in a public safety agency and this changed the employer's expectations.

Makes one wonder how anyone at a higher level (maybe even at a squadron commander level), is viewed by their employer, if other than vacation/comp time utilization is being requested (I would paid time to perform CAP duties ).   Surely there's organizations that allow their employees some time off for community type activities (but I would think more of the non profit & government type organizations would be more liberal than the business side in allowing this.  I know one of my relatives works at a company that gives them about 3 days a year to participate in community activities).   Any time I'm away from work for CAP activities during my normal work week I have to use my vacation time.

Seems like it could be a really challenge and maybe even a civilian career stopper for anyone in CAP at a higher level that requires taking lots of time off from work  
RM

             

[Chappie]

I am employed by a county's law enforcement agency as part of the IT team. I have never had an occassion where when I requested vacation time to attend a wing/region/national event have I been denied.  For me it's all about having time on the books.  (That has included 7 CCRSCs, 8 Wing Conferences, 3 Region Conferences, 3 NSCs, 1 NCC as well as participating in a couple of CAP member funerals).

[FARRIER]

I wonder how many in CAP are self employed and how it affects their ability to participate.

[lordmonar]

One of the reasons why our top leadership are all retirees or independly wealthy.

As a former squadron commander I had to take a lot of time off for CAP.  Luckily when I was on AD they were pretty liberal about giving time off....as a civilian contractor I have to take leave or work out a way of working extra hours.

[NIN]

One of the reasons why our top leadership are all retirees or independly wealthy.

WIWAC, that was rumored to be a qualification for Wing Commander: retired, independently wealthy and a pilot.

[Eclipse]

Life is choice, it's also in a constant state of change.
His life changed, and he made a choice.

Some people are committed to the point of using time off for CAP, some people wouldn't consider that, and some people volunteer
at CAP, their church, Boy Scouts, the food pantry, and still have time to learn animal husbandry online.

Some companies encourage community service, and will even fund sabbaticals for that purpose.

How is this even a topic?

[ColonelJack]

The problem of time off from work vis-a-vis CAP duties does extend all the way down to the squadron level.  When I was a squadron CC, I worked full-time as a teacher and part-time as a radio newscaster.  That didn't leave a lot of time for anything but sleeping and raising my then-infant daughter ... but somehow I managed to get six years in as CC before the burnout hit.

My full-time employers (school) were pretty hard-nosed about time off - and rightfully so, as I had signed a contract with them to work a certain number of days per year.

The radio folks were also rather demanding of my agreed-to work schedule.

But somehow, it all "worked" out just fine.

Granted, the situation described in RM's original post (a Region commander) isn't the same.  And public safety personnel generally don't operate on an every-day-nine-to-five schedule.  So I can understand his resignation of the Region CC slot.

That's my two cents, adjusted as always for inflation.

Jack

[RADIOMAN015]

I wonder how many in CAP are self employed and how it affects their ability to participate.

Knowing some members that are self employed, it does affect their ability to participate at times.  IF they have a project to complete for a client/customer within a specific time frame , especially if they have to be at the customer's site to do it, they don't have too much flexibility, especially for unplanned/short notice CAP events.

Being self employed is very difficult, and may not offer the flexibility one enjoyed as an employee of someone else
RM

[rustyjeeper]

Interestingly another website is reporting that a Regional Commander has tended his resignation due to his employer's expectation of him being on the job and not off on CAP business.  Apparently he accepted a promotion in a public safety agency and this changed the employer's expectations.

Makes one wonder how anyone at a higher level (maybe even at a squadron commander level), is viewed by their employer, if other than vacation/comp time utilization is being requested (I would paid time to perform CAP duties ).   Surely there's organizations that allow their employees some time off for community type activities (but I would think more of the non profit & government type organizations would be more liberal than the business side in allowing this.  I know one of my relatives works at a company that gives them about 3 days a year to participate in community activities).   Any time I'm away from work for CAP activities during my normal work week I have to use my vacation time.

Seems like it could be a really challenge and maybe even a civilian career stopper for anyone in CAP at a higher level that requires taking lots of time off from work  
RM

           

I can tell you that I have a job working for municipal government in MA and in order to do anything CAP related, be it an actual mission,  or training _ I use my own earned time off (vacation time) and the local government will NOT cover the time for me. I am fortunate to have a job where I have a decent amount of vactation time, but I spend at least 75% of it doing CAP work. I agree it could be a real career stopper for anyone

[PHall]

Hey RADIOMAN015, the proper title for a Commander of one of CAP's eight regions is Region Commander.

Only wannabes call them Regional Commanders...

[Eclipse]

Being self employed is very difficult, and may not offer the flexibility one enjoyed as an employee of someone else.

Seriously?  Being self-employed gives you 100% flexibility, you are your own boss, and you set the priorities.  That doesn't mean you can work full-time CAP and still bill clients, but it certainly means that you're more likely to be able to work remotely and make everyone happy at the same time.  I see my biggest client about twice a quarter, everything else is remote, and it doesn't matter where the "remote" is - your house, Starbucks, encampment, or running the Ground Branch for a major real-world while troubleshooting workstation problems and doing devel work for a client.

People make an ROI decision every morning about their job - most days they go, once in a while they don't.  It's a member choice, period.
If you decide on a given day that CAP is your priority, it's your call.  End of story.  Many states now guarantee job security for members on orders,
and a lot of companies encourage, or even require, volunteer service on an annual basis.

[Nolan Teel]

My boss is pretty understanding about CAP stuff but if I need to work... I work.  If that means I pull chocks on something with CAP then so be it.  Have to pay the Bills. 

[Walkman]

I wonder how many in CAP are self employed and how it affects their ability to participate.

I'm just coming off a long period of being self-employed (start my new job on April 9th) and I can say that freelancing gives a ton of flexibility. Case in point, I don't get vacation time on the new job for a year. I'll get some personal days. That means that NESA is out this year, so is MIWG SAR Academy. I have to really think about anytime off I take for CAP now because I also need to be able to give my family some of my days off as well.

One of the reasons why our top leadership are all retirees or independly wealthy.

Honestly, if I was wealthy like that, I'd make my CAP time my full-time gig.

[Eclipse]

...I also need to be able to give my family some of my days off as well.

Meh, they know what I look like...

[Spaceman3750]

The only time I've ever had issues getting time off (for CAP or otherwise) was summer 2011 because my boss put a freeze on time off due to a major project. Beyond that, they really don't care whether I'm going CAP'ing or basket weaving, so long as I have the time off on the books for it.

[DBlair]

In some states, job protection for unpaid CAP leave has been signed into law, modeled after National Guard job protection (training and/or missions), and others having a variety of other such CAP-related policies. (If I remember correctly, ~15 States have job legislation protecting CAP service)

Here in FLWG, we've been pushing for CAP members to be granted up to 15 days/year unpaid CAP Leave, for the purpose of training and/or missions. This would be for employers with more than 15 employees, and where it would not provide an unreasonable burden on the employer, with certain legal courses of action if the member was fired or penalized in the workplace.

The need for this came into light when we were facing a hurricane and the National Guard was largely deployed overseas, needing CAP to act as a force multiplier even more than usual. As a result, some CAP members experienced problems at work. I've heard that during Deepwater Horizon, similar issues at work were likewise experienced by some, solidifying the importance of a provision to allow our members to serve and meanwhile not be punished for this service.

Personally, I have a job with a certain level of flexibility and so it has allowed for a decent (substantial) level of involvement, even sometimes working on CAP stuff during the workday, but I can certainly see how many employers would have a problem with it.

[jeders]

Being self employed is very difficult, and may not offer the flexibility one enjoyed as an employee of someone else.

Seriously?  Being self-employed gives you 100% flexibility, you are your own boss, and you set the priorities. 

I'd say more like 85-90% flexibility. Usually you can get away from your work to go "play CAP", but once in a while you do have to pass up on CAP to get a major project done or deal put together. Otherwise, yes you're right.

I can tell you that I have a job working for municipal government in MA and in order to do anything CAP related, be it an actual mission,  or training _ I use my own earned time off (vacation time) and the local government will NOT cover the time for me. I am fortunate to have a job where I have a decent amount of vactation time, but I spend at least 75% of it doing CAP work. I agree it could be a real career stopper for anyone

Interesting. One of the guys in our squadron works for TxDOT and usually if he needs to go on a mission he just tells his boss and goes, no big deal. The only times he can't is when the government needs him for DR related stuff and the like (i.e. keeping traffic flowing in and out of a disaster area).

[Flying Pig]

In regards to the Region Commander stepping back, your assuming that he works Mon-Fri 8-5.  In many LE or Public Safety Agencies, when you get into the management levels  You work ALL THE TIME.  When you start taking time off for your volunteering, thats not going to sit well.
My boss literally works probably 6 days per week.  On vacation, I see him in the office dealing with situations.  They are usually always on call.  You don't just clock out at the end of the day and shut off your cell phone.  In many agencies, 100% commitment is required.  Being a Region Commander has to be an unbelievable amount of time and responsibility.  I would bet this commander just had to make a decision and decided there isnt enough time in a day to do both. 

Now, this same commander I work with would allow me to take time off for CAP activities, CD missions, SARs, Mountain Course, DEA Overflight Course, etc and it was considered training.  I couldnt go to encampment or SLS that way, but I bet if I really explained it, I could have done it based on Leadership Training.   But as an example, the Mountain Course.  The Dept could have paid a couple grand to send me to one AND pay me my salary or they could get a much longer course for free in CAP and pay me my salary.  Seems like a smart move on my commanders part.  But at his level, if he were in CAP there would be now way he would have time do both.  If I promoted or became the Chief Pilot, I imagine that would come to a halt because I am now needed at work to make things happen.  As it sits now, Im just a worker bee.

What this particular CAP region has now is a huge supporter of CAP possibly in a position to push CAP being used.  We just had a real SAR in my area.  As a former SqCC and an LE pilot, when I got the word on the crash the first thing I did was contact CAP who hadnt been alerted yet.  As the search progressed, I was able to push that CAP conduct the airborne search and was able to relay messages between CAP and the LE SAR teams and put people in contact with each other who wouldnt normally have access to each others cell phone numbers.  Lets face it, cops know how to talk to each other.  I could take information I had on a cop level, and translate it into CAP "talk" and visa versa.    No, I was not the puppet-master by any means but it has its benefits.

[Major Carrales]

The affairs of livelihood trump the affairs of CAP service in most cases.  I can, for example, only participate in CAP activities during the school year with the premission of the CAMPUS PRINCIPAL.

This year an issue almost came into being.  There is a mandate for all Unit Commanders to take the BASIC IG course.  It is being offered the friday before the TEXAS WING CONFERENCE...in conjuntion with it.  However, that day is also a testing day for the TEXAS "STAAR" test, a standardized test in accorance with STATE and FEDERAL mandates.  Thus, if it comes down to it....if I am administering the TEST, I could not go.  To take a "sick" or "personal" day against the wishes of the principal I would violate my integrity.

As it turns out, the test being administered that day is SCIENCE and I am a SOCIAL STUDIES teacher.  Thus, I am not directly testng.  The Principal let me go.

Now, what happens if work interfers?  Sad as I would have to say it...WORK takes priority over the squadron.

[Flying Pig]

CAP dont pay the bills

[JeffDG]

CAP dont pay the bills

And that applies regardless of whatever "protection" legislation there is.

Seriously, if you need to invoke some kind of statute to protect you job if you leave for CAP duty, then you've neglected your relationship with your management at work rather badly.  Explain what you're doing and generally most companies are very supportive.

[Major Carrales]

The matter that exists is that CAPNHQ has to take this very real concept into it's decision making processes.  If things are to, let's say, be made mandatory...then there must be allowances for the angle of work and the negative effects that the employer/employee relationship must have.

Say, for example, that an SLS or CLC curriculum was made a WEEK LONG or other such course was made a mandatory item to remain out of the "Ghost Squadrons" and "No Fly Lists."  The idea of making these things longer in time or madatory seems like the logical extention of a rigorous training program...however, if SLS or CLC was made a week long thing (like a SENIOR ENCAMPMENT or some other hypothetically ridiculous notion used here only for shock value and hyperbole) very few people could attend it without using vacation time. I could, for example, only do it in the summer when I had SUMMER BREAK.  Other workers would not have such luxury.  Then, if you could swing a week's time...would not a family trip be the greater matter if one had a family.

When making decisions NATIONALLY, or even at a WING and SQUADRON LEVEL, the realities of life have to have a major coefficient in the equation.

If not...and the descision has to be made to either "have a job" or "Attend some function mandated by some distant command," employment is the clear choice.  After all...UNEMPLOYMENT isn't WORKING!!!

[Flying Pig]

People roll their eyes, but I never attended SLS, UCC or any other CAP "school" for that matter.  I always wanted to but whenever they came up, I was working (Yes, over the weekend)  My vacations are based around aircraft maintenance schedules usually.  The hard dates I had were for family vacations. 
The one time I was signed up for SLS, I was called into work the night before and ended up flying a mission all weekend.  And I somehow managed to create a great Sq staff and end up with one of the top units in Pacific Region and CAWG (I have a plaque to prove it )  Ive had a few people who pointed out that I had no issues finding time to fly.  Yup.....that's because the department looked at flying in CAP as training they didnt have to pay for and allowed me to go as part of my work week.  Hard to disregard a week long free mountain flying course!

If people work for companies or organizations that allow that, and you arent stretching the facts to get it, go for it.  But lets face it, if it comes down to flexing legal muscle in order to volunteer, at least in the world I live in, you had better be a very high value employee! 

[Major Carrales]

Another angle here is "quality"of the "deployment."  If I tell my boss, "Sir, a hurricane hit the Northern part of Texas, they need people to go and I am qualified..."

He would most likely let me go, however, if I am asking for minor things, classes and the like...then I would rather throw my "card" for the larger activity.

Then again, I have created the situation where squadron and work are interrelated.  We meet at the school where I work and cadets are now part of the "culture" there.  This creates some issues...unique ones, but the greater issues are good.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My experiences with CAP and employers have been mixed.

Some employers have refused to hire me because of CAP.  A former friend of mine who was also a business manager said he'd never hire a CAP member, much less an ANG or AFRES member.  He said "you guys get sent to the Middle East every time Saddam Hussein farts."  I told him that wasn't true of CAP and he knew it, but he said "I just don't want to be bothered with an employee going off for a weekend like you do and I can't call them in if needed."  This was in the days when cell phones were in their infancy.  Now you see one reason he's a former friend.

One employer was openly hostile to me about CAP.  The young woman who interviewed and hired me was former Air Force and had a favourable opinion of CAP.  However, when I reported for my first day of work, she had got fired!   During my three years there, I never asked for any time off that I didn't already have, but they still maintained their attitude.  One of the managers used to say "go play army" when I went to a squadron meeting.  My direct supervisor used to say "you better thank me and my tax dollars" for weekend CLC, SLS, etc. when we were authorised to stay on base in VOQ, eat at the dining hall at reduced rates, etc.  My squadron CC said "the hell with them...let them schlep around looking for a downed aircraft, bore holes in the sky trying to locate an ELT and not get paid for it, try to make a difference in some kid's life and have to buy out-of-pocket virtually everything you need."

However, at one job I had, my direct supervisor (who also interviewed me) was retired Air Force.  In one of the interviews he told me "I used to see CAP people on nearly every base I worked on.  You guys do what you do for the Air Force and don't get a dime for it."  He later told me that my CAP service was a big reason why he hired me, because he believed CAP people to be motivated and disciplined. :clap:  Needless to say, he never had a problem letting me off for CAP duty...and on one Monday after I'd been a scanner in sub-zero weather looking for an ELT (didn't find it  ) the previous day he saw how weary I was and told me to go home and get some rest.

[Johnny Yuma]

Most places it's not about the time volunteering, it's the kind of volunteering you do. The Chief of Police for Topeka PD runs all over the state of Kansas on weekends and other occasions refereeing basketball games, usually he's driving his city owned police car to do it, too.

I'd say if the real reason he's resigning is due to work (CAP,Inc. politics FTW!)  then CAP must not be relevent to his employer's agenda.

[bflynn]

...he'd never hire a CAP member...

One employer was openly hostile to me about CAP. ...

... he believed CAP people to be motivated and disciplined. ...

As a still relatively new member, I can say that this roughly corresponds to non employment reactions I've gotten.  Many people I talked to had negative encouters with CAP personnel in the past and had nothing good to say about it.  Others reacted positively.  It isn't necessarily the employment situation that impacts this.

When it comes to whether or not CAP impacts your value to your employer, that's their call.  Just looking at in impassionately, if I have two workers and one works every day and is available on weekends if needed, but the other is talking about the possibility of getting called in to search for a crashed pilot, then the first employee is more valuable to my business.  The second is more valuable to my community.  It becomes a personal call as to which one is more valuable.  In a corporation, where everyone has a job by the grace of the collective shareholders, it's probably the first.  In a small company with a community minded owner, the second may be considered better.

[Nolan Teel]

If anything I've found I have to work more to cover the cost of CAP... I mean has anyone seen the cost of Ink these Days?

[RADIOMAN015]

...he'd never hire a CAP member...

One employer was openly hostile to me about CAP. ...

... he believed CAP people to be motivated and disciplined. ...

As a still relatively new member, I can say that this roughly corresponds to non employment reactions I've gotten.  Many people I talked to had negative encouters with CAP personnel in the past and had nothing good to say about it.  Others reacted positively.  It isn't necessarily the employment situation that impacts this.

When it comes to whether or not CAP impacts your value to your employer, that's their call.  Just looking at in impassionately, if I have two workers and one works every day and is available on weekends if needed, but the other is talking about the possibility of getting called in to search for a crashed pilot, then the first employee is more valuable to my business.  The second is more valuable to my community.  It becomes a personal call as to which one is more valuable.  In a corporation, where everyone has a job by the grace of the collective shareholders, it's probably the first.  In a small company with a community minded owner, the second may be considered better.

There's a lot of qualified people looking for jobs.  Employers hire people they expect to be on the job every day focused on assisting the company/organization/ government agency with meeting its' goals.   Most do not want to hire people that might not show up for work due to a variety of reasons, including volunteering in another organization.    ANYONE who is looking for a job needs to be very careful when they discuss their volunteer activities and be sure the interviewer understands that the job will come first.

Of course on the other hand the purpose of a job interview is also for the prospective employee to evaluate the employer and he/she may find that it will not be a good fit.   HOWEVER, I've seen some pretty desperate people come in for interviews (e.g. unemployment benefits just about running out) (we allow job applications to be filled out, even if we are not hiring at the time) and they are willing to do just about  anything.
RM
   

[RiverAux]

My employer has always been very supportive of my CAP (and CG Aux) activities even when they weren't required to be. 

However, CAP is really no different than any other volunteer organization that someone might be a member of.  I suppose that if you were the equivalent of the Region Commander in the Lions Club it could take a whole lot of time and personal expense. 

Now, this is totally unscientific, but those who tend to be leaders in CAP tend to come from the "professional" levels of society.   People in those types of jobs usually have some amount of flexibility about when they do their work. 

You generally don't see blue-collar time-card punchers in CAP and even more rarely see them in upper leadership.  Obviously, there are exceptions and I can think of a few, but they are the exceptions.

[davidsinn]

You generally don't see blue-collar time-card punchers in CAP and even more rarely see them in upper leadership.  Obviously, there are exceptions and I can think of a few, but they are the exceptions.

This is pretty accurate. I used to be a professional(CAD drafter) and it worked great with CAP. Now I work landscaping. I didn't make it to the meeting this last week because we were working until dusk just to keep ahead of the grass. I'm going to have that problem a lot this summer. I clocked 58 hours over six days this week it would have been more except we got rained out Friday. That's not conducive to CAP duties.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

ANYONE who is looking for a job needs to be very careful when they discuss their volunteer activities and be sure the interviewer understands that the job will come first.

And I have.  I've always taken the attitude with employers that "what you see is what you get."

That said, I applied for one job where the interviewer was likely a member of the Mennonite Church, who are pacifists.  I emphasised the part of CAP service that focussed on lifesaving, but he still wasn't too thrilled.  I didn't get the job.  Que sera sera.

[PHall]

You generally don't see blue-collar time-card punchers in CAP and even more rarely see them in upper leadership.  Obviously, there are exceptions and I can think of a few, but they are the exceptions.

Careful with the sterotypes, they will come back to bite you...

Myself, I've worked for AT&T for 26 years and I've managed to do both CAP and ANG/USAFR with minimal problems.
You just need to keep everybody informed.

I know a number of CAP members who are "blue collar" employees who have had no problems participating.

It's all in the communications....

[RiverAux]

Actually, I'm fairly confident with this stereotype because it is true.  In general, those in non-professional jobs don't have as much leeway to either participate in CAP activities or don't want to spend the money it takes to participate in CAP.  And I'm not talking about the stereotypical doctors who are CAP pilots.  CAP is generally a middle/upper-middle class organization.  That doesn't mean that everybody falls in that category, but most do. 

[Eclipse]

Most people with regular jobs work 9-5 and then go home.  No one, including their employers, cares a whit what they do from 5-9 or on weekends, as long as they show up from 9-5.

These people may not have the flexibility to be Wing CC's, but they make up the core of our membership.

[jimmydeanno]

My senior members are all comprised of white-collar professionals.  Not because we shun other folks, but because the other folks typically have to work nights, weekends, don't have schedule flexibility, etc.  It's just the way it works sometimes, I suppose.

My current seniors, of all ages, all work M-F, 8:00-4:00, and have at least four weeks of vacation a year.

[Major Carrales]

How much of this is also depenent on "work ethic."  I do a lot for my employer...extra duties, taking on project with minimal or no compensation for "the good of the school."  I hope I prove that I am in it for the long haul and care about the work.

I.E....the school bell rings at 3:56, but don't go home until 6 or 7, teaching VIOLIN, running a Broadcast Radio club and the school news paper after school on mondays and wednesday.  Also, the Cadet meet there after school tuesdays and thursdays and tutoring on friday.

I have noticed, that if I need to be off for something, the answer might still be no, but I have provided a level of "worth" that might allow for some level of understanding.

[754837]

I have been an executive with a municipal law enforcement agency (mid size) and am now an exec with a federal agency.  Both agencies were always pleased when members were involved in community & volunteer programs but we almost always required members of the agency to use approved leave to participate when a schedule conflict arose.  One exception was that officers were allowed to attend meetings during their meal time provided that they were able to respond if needed (and assuming the meeting site was close to or on the officer's district.

As you can tell, I am new to this site.  I have not figured out how to spell check my posts!

[PA Guy]

I never found it necessary to inform my employers of my volunteer activities.  What I do on my time is my business.

[PHall]

I never found it necessary to inform my employers of my volunteer activities.  What I do on my time is my business.

It helps when you're asking for time off from work. Of course if you have tons of vacation time available....

[a2capt]

Maybe it backfired, but I was pretty open about my community involvement, my CAP involvement, and contributions on my resumes when applying for employment. I didn't want them to think I was doing nothing, either, during the growing gap. ... the still progressing gap, OTOH, I've learned a lot about laser cutting, Gcode, CNC machines, and R/C aircraft in 3 years.

None of which I had touched while I was busy being a 1 man IT dept. for the previous 17 years.

[Johnny Yuma]

Interestingly another website is reporting that a Regional Commander has tended his resignation due to his employer's expectation of him being on the job and not off on CAP business.  Apparently he accepted a promotion in a public safety agency and this changed the employer's expectations.

Makes one wonder how anyone at a higher level (maybe even at a squadron commander level), is viewed by their employer, if other than vacation/comp time utilization is being requested (I would paid time to perform CAP duties ).   Surely there's organizations that allow their employees some time off for community type activities (but I would think more of the non profit & government type organizations would be more liberal than the business side in allowing this.  I know one of my relatives works at a company that gives them about 3 days a year to participate in community activities).   Any time I'm away from work for CAP activities during my normal work week I have to use my vacation time.

Seems like it could be a really challenge and maybe even a civilian career stopper for anyone in CAP at a higher level that requires taking lots of time off from work  
RM         

The Region CC didn't just step down from Command, he also retired from CAP effective 31 March, effectively ending his membership.

There's more to this story that we probably won't ever know.

[Major Carrales]

Interestingly another website is reporting that a Regional Commander has tended his resignation due to his employer's expectation of him being on the job and not off on CAP business.  Apparently he accepted a promotion in a public safety agency and this changed the employer's expectations.

Makes one wonder how anyone at a higher level (maybe even at a squadron commander level), is viewed by their employer, if other than vacation/comp time utilization is being requested (I would paid time to perform CAP duties ).   Surely there's organizations that allow their employees some time off for community type activities (but I would think more of the non profit & government type organizations would be more liberal than the business side in allowing this.  I know one of my relatives works at a company that gives them about 3 days a year to participate in community activities).   Any time I'm away from work for CAP activities during my normal work week I have to use my vacation time.

Seems like it could be a really challenge and maybe even a civilian career stopper for anyone in CAP at a higher level that requires taking lots of time off from work  
RM         

The Region CC didn't just step down from Command, he also retired from CAP effective 31 March, effectively ending his membership.

There's more to this story that we probably won't ever know.

Without any judgements on RADIOMAN15 for this is a common practice, one continuing issue that does occur at CAPTALK is a propensity to jump to a conclusion before all facts are known.  This usally causes people to say things, then passionately defend them as "FACTS" and then come to find they were wrong and, if only they had waited, a clear image would come to light.

Investigate...yes.  Examine...yes!  Discuss and Debate...yes!!! BUT NEVER ASSUME  when not all is know or is beyond the realm of mere speculation.

[denverpilot]

My employer has a specific clause for (unpaid - can't win 'em all) 14 days a year of CAP service.

(They're equally generous of other charities, but somewhere along the line they added a CAP specific clause before I was with the company. I haven't found any other CAP members yet, though.)

[arajca]

Interestingly another website is reporting that a Regional Commander has tended his resignation due to his employer's expectation of him being on the job and not off on CAP business.  Apparently he accepted a promotion in a public safety agency and this changed the employer's expectations.

Makes one wonder how anyone at a higher level (maybe even at a squadron commander level), is viewed by their employer, if other than vacation/comp time utilization is being requested (I would paid time to perform CAP duties ).   Surely there's organizations that allow their employees some time off for community type activities (but I would think more of the non profit & government type organizations would be more liberal than the business side in allowing this.  I know one of my relatives works at a company that gives them about 3 days a year to participate in community activities).   Any time I'm away from work for CAP activities during my normal work week I have to use my vacation time.

Seems like it could be a really challenge and maybe even a civilian career stopper for anyone in CAP at a higher level that requires taking lots of time off from work  
RM         

The Region CC didn't just step down from Command, he also retired from CAP effective 31 March, effectively ending his membership.

There's more to this story that we probably won't ever know.

True. Some Public Safety agencies prohibit their executive personnel from volunteering with any agency. A friend of mine had to retire as a volunteer fire fighter when he made Capt in his police dept.

[sardak]

My employer has a specific clause for (unpaid - can't win 'em all) 14 days a year of CAP service.

(They're equally generous of other charities, but somewhere along the line they added a CAP specific clause before I was with the company. I haven't found any other CAP members yet, though.)

That's because Colorado has "Leave & Job Protection for Volunteer Workers" laws. CAP members are covered under a different part of the law, and have different protections, than non-CAP volunteers (because COWG requested the law originally, and the authors were the Legislative Squadron commander and vice-commander). More here: http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/DOLA-Main/CBON/1251596866302

The laws only apply for actual incidents and not for training.

Mike

[tsrup]

Interestingly another website is reporting that a Regional Commander has tended his resignation due to his employer's expectation of him being on the job and not off on CAP business.  Apparently he accepted a promotion in a public safety agency and this changed the employer's expectations.

Makes one wonder how anyone at a higher level (maybe even at a squadron commander level), is viewed by their employer, if other than vacation/comp time utilization is being requested (I would paid time to perform CAP duties ).   Surely there's organizations that allow their employees some time off for community type activities (but I would think more of the non profit & government type organizations would be more liberal than the business side in allowing this.  I know one of my relatives works at a company that gives them about 3 days a year to participate in community activities).   Any time I'm away from work for CAP activities during my normal work week I have to use my vacation time.

Seems like it could be a really challenge and maybe even a civilian career stopper for anyone in CAP at a higher level that requires taking lots of time off from work  
RM         

The Region CC didn't just step down from Command, he also retired from CAP effective 31 March, effectively ending his membership.

There's more to this story that we probably won't ever know.

The letter sent out stated that he was being promoted and would no longer have time to fulfill his obligations in CAP.

So in reality there probably isn't any more to the story than that.


Not defending him, just hedging off the race to the tin-foil hats.


Occam's Razor and all..

[Flying Pig]

Wow..  automatically jumping to conspiracy.  Chances are he just finished his run.  And decided his full time career was more important.  What Region CC was it?  I have over 20 yrs in CAP including my cadet time.  Unfortunately cadet time doesnt count for "retirement" although Ive met members who havnt been to a meeting in 10 years but were allowed to "retire" because they paid their dues on time. 

I just let mine go because work was going full speed.  But I dont mind because work going full speed for me is pretty awesome.  Could be the same for this member.  There are things I miss about CAP, sure.  But I think it ran its course.  So why cant it be the same for a former Region Commander?

[James Shaw]

CAP dont pay the bills

CAP means Come and Pay?

Not we will pay.......

[Johnny Yuma]

Hey, I'm in the region that's the subject of the OP's post. I've seen enough amateur dinner theater dramatics between NHQ, Region and Wing Command in the last 8 years to believe that the Region motto should be "Humpty Dumpty was pushed!".

I'm a natural cynic and the antics of CAP, Inc. haven't done much to change this. In all honesty I'm hoping his departure was voluntary and that he wasn't shoved out for one reason or another. It would be a first in a long time

[Flying Pig]

Which region was it?  Im just curious.  Obviously its not a secret is it?

[lordmonar]

Opps....

Sorry! 

NCR Col Fagan.

[Flying Pig]

Looks like he was a police Lt. in charge of the Homicide Unit.  Moving on to another assignment or getting promoted is pretty realistic.  He fell just short if his 20.  To bad he couldnt just keep his membership up for another 3 yrs.   

[Johnny Yuma]

Looks like he was a police Lt. in charge of the Homicide Unit.  Moving on to another assignment or getting promoted is pretty realistic.  He fell just short if his 20.  To bad he couldnt just keep his membership up for another 3 yrs.

Yeah, that's exactly my point. They might be concerned with his constant travel but being a CAP member?

IIRc you cannot retire unless you have 20 years, so in effect he quit. It's strange...

[bflynn]

IIRc you cannot retire unless you have 20 years, so in effect he quit. It's strange...

Someone plays CAP for 17 years and then stops because they need to devote time for work?  What's strange about that?

Does CAP "retirement" get you anything?  I mean other than permission to keep wearing a uniform that they couldn't keep you from wearing anyway?

[NCRblues]

Looks like he was a police Lt. in charge of the Homicide Unit.  Moving on to another assignment or getting promoted is pretty realistic.  He fell just short if his 20.  To bad he couldnt just keep his membership up for another 3 yrs.

Yeah, that's exactly my point. They might be concerned with his constant travel but being a CAP member?

IIRc you cannot retire unless you have 20 years, so in effect he quit. It's strange...

Actually, if you paid really REALLY close attention on the situation.... he was placed in the region command chair AGAIN to serve the remainder of his last term out. It was an understanding that he served his remaining time, then step aside.

I am the king of CAP conspiracy ideas (well, maybe not as bad as RADIOMAN) but still. Even I see nothing off about this. The man was promoted to Captain in a police department that serves a large crime high population just outside the ever so lovely St. Louis Mo. Nothing to see here move along. Lets hope the replacement can do a good job.