Senior time spent on Cadet matters

[coudano]

^ Not so.  The difference in the mind of the 12 year old vs. a 14 year old is remarkable and apparent even to the untrained eye.  Many young folk do not develop an interest in aviation or the military until their teens, and then they are confronted by a 12 year old "Sergeant."  They feel out of place, taking direction from what they consider to their social inferior.  It would be different if the "Sergeant" spent several years earning his stripes, but we have cadet SSGT's after... what... 8 months?

The cadet program is one where status is earned through participation and mastery of skills (and no other way); respect based on core values; and camaraderie based on shared experience.  Anybody who wants a piece of that will find a place in CAP.

If we fail to sell it in almost exactly these terms, we may be guilty of false advertising.  No different than telling people that we do 90% of all inland search and rescue, so they join up thinking they'll be going on actual missions 12 times a year.


If someone has prejudices that are going to preclude them from participation in the first place, they are going to have problems even if you raise the minimum cadet age.  What about those who don't want to be under the authority of a female, or someone of a different race?  How is such a person going to be an effective leader when they can not bring themselves to even *attempt*, let alone master, the most basic phase 1 skill, subordination.

Given the choice between 12 and 13 year olds,
or more 14 and 15 year olds, but ones with crappier attitudes
i'll take the 12-13 year olds, thanks.


Additionally, there is a quality control issue that comes into play.
I as a deputy commander for cadets (with authority of the squadron commander), certify all of my cadets' promotions.  Nobody passes out of phase 1 into phase 2 without mastering the phase 1 set, and being ready to start taking on official leadership roles.  This ensures that the cadet has got some skills to exemplify, which are one thing he can use to *earn* the respect of his subordinates.  goof troop sergeants aren't going to be respected by anyone, and they are caused by faulty administration of the program.  age is a false attribution of the problem in this case.

Sergeants who want to lean on their age and physical stature as the primary tools they use to influence are missing the boat on the leadership skills that we are trying to teach.


That eight months that it took the younger sergeant to get into phase 2 status is the exact same 8 months it might take a 15 or 16 year old to do the same thing.  That said, it has been my experience with *most* 12 year old cadets that they do not advance every 2 months, and they do not phase after 8 months.  I'm not saying it isn't possible, but most of the ones i've dealt with have typically promoted 2 or 3 times a year for the first year, or year and a half, and really get going somewhere between 13 and 14.  However, if a 12 yo was doing the things that needed to be done, and demonstrating the maturity and mastery of skills, i'd advance them, and put them in charge.  Because those are the things you do, to advance, and get put in charge.  That's a good example to everyone.

I have had multiple 13.5-14 year old SSgt's that I would stand up against *any* 15 or 16 year old phase 2 cadet that you can produce.


Likewise, i've had a few 15 and 16 year olds over the years who have copped some attitude about the age thing, despite joining.  Incidentally, they have demonstrated lack of motivation and follow through to even check off the administrative boxes for promotion, let alone the commander discretion things like attitude... and languish in phase 1.  Sucks to be them, but i'm not going to lose too much sleep over it.  Raising the minimum cadet age is not going to solve their problem...

The 15 or 16 year olds i've had over the years that got over it, did their time, and advanced rapidly, have gone on to not only take meaningful leadership positions in the cadet program at the squadron right away (like within 8 months) but also to get their mitchells, and full rides in rotc and academy appointments and so forth and so on.  If someone doesn't even want to TRY in the first place because my pretty rock awesome C/TSgt who just had his 14th birthday is younger, is going to teach them how to drill and salute and call them when they make a mistake or don't show up, then they can chart the course of their life wherever they want it to go.  We aren't at all worse off without them.



Let's not even talk about the 'real military' where people younger than you can and are in charge of you quite regularly (let alone the vast array of other 'real life' applications where this is true)

[Bluelakes 13]

However, if CAP were suddenly "pure ES" with no cadet element I feel it would be on the chopping block faster than you could say "Jack Robinson." Also, if we eliminated out ES function becoming a cadet only organization, we would also be eliminated because AFJROTC already covers that function...and with funding.  Why "double" an entry in the ledger for two cadet programs?

CAP is able to exist because of its current structure, not despite it.  Food for thought.

Well said  :clap:

[Bluelakes 13]

A lot of us get annoyed by clueless seniors bumbling around CP activitiers that have not figured out how to wear a uniform or master the basics of military customs and courtesies.   

Or just activities in general...

[Ron1319]

I was about 25 when I mentored a guy in his 60's (who looked just like Santa Claus, btw) and there were no problems.  I'm not at Intel anymore, but we still chat from time to time over email or Facebook.  He retired soon after I left to run my business full time.

[caphornbuckle]

Even the Boy Scouts have different levels based on age grouping

Just one question:

What groups are the Boy Scouts divided into to seperate age groups?

Scouts start as early as 10 1/2 and can remain a Boy Scout until 18.  There is no division except for patrols within the troop that involves age unless you are referring to Cub Scouts & Webelos which involve boys as young as First Grade.

[coudano]

iirc

cub scouts up to 12
boy scouts 12-18
venture crew 14-21

or something like that?

[caphornbuckle]

cub scouts
boy scouts
venture crew

Venture Crew boys can be a member of a Boy Scout Troop as well so that is a little different.  Venture is to Boy Scouts a little like the Civil Air Patrol is to the Air Force.

Ventures crews are a completely different branch from the Boy Scouts.  Girls can be venturers.

[Eclipse]

Also Explorer posts.

[caphornbuckle]

Also Explorer posts.

Which has the same criteria as Venture Crews.  As a matter of fact, Explorers is returning after a few years of being gone.  Until recently, the Explorers were Venture Crews (in the BSA's eyes).

[Eclipse]

Also Explorer posts.

Which has the same criteria as Venture Crews.  As a matter of fact, Explorers is returning after a few years of being gone.  Until recently, the Explorers were Venture Crews (in the BSA's eyes).

Well, I guess if you consider 1998 recent.  Venturing was split off of Exploring.

[caphornbuckle]

Also Explorer posts.

Which has the same criteria as Venture Crews.  As a matter of fact, Explorers is returning after a few years of being gone.  Until recently, the Explorers were Venture Crews (in the BSA's eyes).

Well, I guess if you consider 1998 recent.  Venturing was split off of Exploring.

You are correct.  However, Exploring went away for some time now but is returning in the near future.  BSA decided to keep the Venture program running and merge all of the Exploring activities/posts into the venture program.

Unfortunately at my age, 1998 doesn't seem that far away either! 

[flyboy53]

It just makes those of us former Explorer Scouts feel that much more ancient in the scheme of things.