Prospective Physically Handicapped Members Access to Squadron?

[RADIOMAN015]

I recent took over the PAO function for the squadron.  I've got a plan to get us more exposure for recruiting both new senior & cadet members but see one particular challenge.

The problem is, that we occupy office/classroom space provided by the military on the 2nd floor of Hangar facility that has no elevator (only stairs) to get to the 2nd floor.

Historically this hasn't happend in the past, BUT a fear that I have during the recruiting process is that we will get someone who wants to join the program that has a physical limitation that would not allow them to climb stairs.

So when we get a call by a prospective member, do we just state we are on the 2nd floor office area of a hangar and than let them ask additional questions or voice concerns? 

I'm not sure how many CAP units US wide have handicap accessible facilities, but how would this affect the units' compliance with CAPR 36-1, http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R036_001_D6D80CB431788.pdf
which references the DOD directive on this but makes no further mention in the regulation as to specific details on physical limitations    

Perhaps others on the site have some actual experience with this type of challenge.   Please note we do have some members in the unit now that have some disabilities and they are very dedicated members who can be counted upon to do the best they can within their limitations (and I guess we all have limitations)!
RM

[RADIOMAN015]

The problem is, that we occupy office/classroom space provided by the military on the 2nd floor of Hangar facility that has no elevator (only stairs) to get to the 2nd floor.

I'm not sure how many CAP units US wide have handicap accessible facilities, but how would this affect the units' compliance with CAPR 36-1, http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R036_001_D6D80CB431788.pdf
which references the DOD directive on this but makes no further mention in the regulation as to specific details on physical limitations    
     

Well actually CAPR 36-1, para 3b "Qualified Member with A Disability", seems to give guidance that anyone accepted into the program, with or without reasonable accomodation can perform the essential functions required by the CAP program or activity without endangering the member, other members, or CAP property.
So I would guess it is reasonable for us to state we are on the 2nd floor of a military provided facility with no elevator, and then basically wait for the response.
RM   

[PHall]

As far as I can tell from the information you have provided, CAP is not discriminating here, you're using the facilities provided by the Air Force.
And AFAIK, the Air Force is not bound by the Americans With Disabilities Act.

[RiverAux]

This is a problem for your commander.  Just go out and recruit and if anybody responds that can't make it upstairs, let him and his superiors figure out what to do. 

[RADIOMAN015]

This is a problem for your commander.  Just go out and recruit and if anybody responds that can't make it upstairs, let him and his superiors figure out what to do.

It's best to be in the proactive prevention of problems mode, especially in public relations. (Our purpose is to portray the organization at it best).    The last thing we need is for someone not to get screened properly and physically show up at our parking lot but not be able to get up to the offices.  This would be a lose, lose situation regardless of any regulation or policy. 
Like I stated in the first post, this hasn't been a problem in the unit, that I am aware of.  It will be presented to our sq commander as a "what if" boss.
RM

[RiverAux]

There is no way to be "proactive" here unless you move the squadron to a handicapped accessible building, which is probably what any CAP squadron in a similar situation should be looking at doing anyway. 

Just what are you proposing to do in terms of public affairs?  Mention in your news releases that wheelchair bound people are welcome to join, they just won't be able to participate in squadron meetings unless they crawl up the stairs? 

[RADIOMAN015]

There is no way to be "proactive" here unless you move the squadron to a handicapped accessible building, which is probably what any CAP squadron in a similar situation should be looking at doing anyway. 

Just what are you proposing to do in terms of public affairs?  Mention in your news releases that wheelchair bound people are welcome to join, they just won't be able to participate in squadron meetings unless they crawl up the stairs?

We have no intention on asking to be moved to another facility on base.  We have one of the best military provided facilities in the region.

The news release will be very generic.   Since we are on a secure military installation certain procedures have to be followed to visit us.   HOWEVER, the designated squadron members calling back the prospective members to coordinate the visit, are going to have to mention that we are on the 2nd floor of a building, with stair access only.   Than if there's a problem (with the prospective member being unable to climb the stairs), they can give it to the Squadron Commander to figure out.  (BTW There's another squadron within about 12 miles of us that is on a first floor facility).

We probably won't have any issues with this anyways (since historically there hasn't been an issue) and the CAP regulations appears to be supportive to what units have available to them for meeting facilities versus being forced to find ADA compliant facilities.

BTW There was a device invented by the Segway Company see
http://arthritis.about.com/cs/assist/a/stairclimbwc.htm
HOWEVER, I believe it has been pulled from the market.

RM     

[capchiro]

You obviously don't have one of the best military provided facilities in the region.  You don't even have a facility that meets CAPR-36-1.  If a member shows up to visit your squadron in a wheelchair, you may be unpleasantly surprised at the outcome.  To be proactive you need to begin looking for solutions, ie, making your locations handicap accesible or finding a different location on base.  I am sure the Base Commander will be glad to help with either one.  The Base Commander will not be amused when he and his facility are involved in an ADA suit.  Just by using your current facilities you are discouraging disabled people from visiting and joining.  You are doing a disservice to CAP and should be dinged on an IG Inspection.. By the way, by telling people that you meet on the second floor is not an answer to the problem, but an invitation to the lawsuit..

[Ned]

Colonel,

I truly admire your unique skillset as a health professional and a lawyer, but are you suggesting that CAP has to make accomodations for folks who haven't even applied for membership?

Why do you think the ADA applies to federal military facilities in the first place?

Would you argue that CAP cannot have encampments in a military barracks that is not wheelchair accessible because somebody might join someday that needs such an accomodation?

Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer

[capchiro]

If there is the appearance that a disabled person may not be offered accomodations and that appearance would make a person feel that they are not welcome to become a member, you have a potential problem.  And if you have a disabled cadet applying for an encampment, you should make sure "reasonable accomodations" are being made.  As you well know, the courts have held the reasonable accomodation standard to be beyond absurd so you must (as we like to say) Govern Yourself Accordingly..  I have seen what I consider to be poor court decisions involving these matters, but the court is very, very supportive of ADA and cost is usually a very small consideration in these matters,  It is based upon political correctness and not necessarily common sense..  It is what it is.. CAP is also very supportive of ADA in the matters I have seen discussed at National level.  After all, we are a civilian corporation..  Meeting on a military base doesn't remove our liability..

[lordmonar]

The ADA only requires "resonable accomidations".

Even if CAP owned the upstars part of the hanger we would not be required to do anything more then what is considered reasonable.

No one is going to expect us to put in $10000 elivator or buy a new building.

So...don't sweat it.

[capchiro]

Ned and Major, perhaps you need to review the letter/memo our National Commander issued on February 15, 2010 and March 12, 2010 regarding this matter.  This is to be posted at every squadron.  Also, a $10,000.00  elevator is much less expensive than the attorney fees to defend this.. Gentlemen, this is nothing to mess around with.  Talk to your commanders and legal officers..  We as an organization don't need a black eye with this..

[Eclipse]

We, as an organization, also cannot afford to accommodate every person who walks up and asks for membership.

Reasonable accommodation within our abilities is all that is required - you don't move a squadron or shut things down because
you don't have an elevator.

There's a difference between active discrimination and inability to accommodate.

And yes, the only opinions in this that matter are the Legal Officers.

[Ned]

Harry,

Thanks for the tip.  I have reviewed the letters and have worked a number of these issues in a CAP context.

My point is that I think you may have put the cart before the horse.  We can and should make reasonable accomodations for members.

We need not, nor should we spend members money to accomodate non-members or unidentified persons who may not even know we exist.

It is just silly to require  a unit to uproot from a modern government facility because someday someone with an unspecified disability might want to join the unit.  Especially without knowing if equivalent accessible facilities are reasonably available.  Even if the ADA applies, it only requires reasonable accomodation on a case-by-case basis.

Would you agree?

[capchiro]

Ned, Respectfully, I would disagree, and upon reading our National Commander's Memo, you will see she does also.  The specific words "potential members" pretty much covers it, wouldn't you agree?

[PHall]

DOD is exempt from ADA. So your "lawsuit" will get exactly nowhere.
DOD does have a policy to make accommodations for their disabled employees, but it's just that, an internal policy.

[Ned]

Ned, Respectfully, I would disagree, and upon reading our National Commander's Memo, you will see she does also.  The specific words "potential members" pretty much covers it, wouldn't you agree?

No, I read "potential members" as someone who has actually expressed some interest in joining.  Otherwise, how could we possible determine what a "reasonable accomodation" is without knowing what disability we need to accomodate?

Nothing in our policies requires us only to meet in locations that could accomodate every possible disability known to man.  Just ones for our members and identified potential members.

Reasonable?

[FARRIER]

     I don't see Radioman's fear unreasonable. My thought would be to ask the base commander if there was another available place on base that could meet wheel chair requirments. You could actually turn that to a positive and advertise the meeting location as wheelchair accessable.

     I knew a ground school instructor who was wheelchair bound when I worked in the airlines and working in aerospace I've know quite a few wheelchair bound people. Aren't these the people we are looking for in an aviation organization?

[tdepp]

Ned and Major, perhaps you need to review the letter/memo our National Commander issued on February 15, 2010 and March 12, 2010 regarding this matter.  This is to be posted at every squadron.  Also, a $10,000.00  elevator is much less expensive than the attorney fees to defend this.. Gentlemen, this is nothing to mess around with.  Talk to your commanders and legal officers..  We as an organization don't need a black eye with this..

As an attorney who litigates discrimination cases, $10K in legal fees would be a bargain.  Multiply by 2.5 to 5 and you have a closer figure on attorneys fees to defend the matter should it go to trial.  (I have no opinion on whether ADA applies to CAP or the USAF but you can bet I'll be doing some research just to be proactive. ) The scenario poses a interesting situation.  My own squadron is on the second floor of a hangar with no elevator so I'd like to know what we should do if the the situation arises.  Our HQ is not on USAF or ANG property but airport property that is owned by a private company. 

Apart from the legal ramifications, however, I think it just makes good sense and is good manners to have a facility that is accessible to people with disabilities.  What if our next mayor of Sioux Falls was wheel chair bound and we wanted him/her to visit our squadron?  One of our S.D. U.S. Senators, Tim Johnson, relies on a scooter to get around after his stroke.  I'd hate to tell him, "Sorry Senator, but we can't get you into our squadron ready room.  Mind if we carry you up the stairs?"  So it's not just members or potential members but all the public we need to think about.  We want people to think (and know as true) that we are a modern organization that is accessible to our citizens--you know, the people we serve?

[capchiro]

Gentlemen, I feel the public are our "potential members" and Senator Johnson could very easily belong to our Congressional Squadron, so it would be nice to accomodate him.  I have made my opinions known and feel very comfortable with them.  You are all entitled to your own opinions.  Please remember that your CAP Legal Officer represents the Corporation and not you or your squadron..  National is their client.. And as they say, Be careful out there..