For professional appointments, a member can be promoted to an advanced rank, and can continue promoting without regard to professional training.
The question posed to me is this: What happens (or should happen) if a member promotes in this manner, but never advances in the specialty track? I did some quick digging, but think I missed my answer somewhere.
The member has apparently never actually complied with the requirements in the pamphlet concerning the specialty track, and doesn't even show a level in E-services (shows "None" for the track they promoted in, but a "Technician "level is shown for four other specialty tracks).
Gonna need references to pubs on this, can't just take someone's word for it.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 29, 2009, 10:20:31 PM
For professional appointments, a member can be promoted to an advanced rank, and can continue promoting without regard to professional training.
Anyone receiving a special appointment promotion for any other reason than military equivalence must "catch up" their PD to the level of the grade they received before they can advance any further. (i.e. a CFI receiving Captain must complete level 3 plus standard TIG to be eligible for Major).
See CAPR 50-17, Para 5-1a, CAPR 35-5, and there's a KB article on this as well: http://tinyurl.com/ydzk6v7
There are no automatic ramifications if a member receives an advanced promotion and then does not participate in professional development, however a demotion for non-participation, or failure to provide the service they promised (CFI who won't be a check pilot, pilot who doesn't fly, etc.) is an option at the commander's discretion within the prescribed procedures.
Otherwise they go on the "Lifer Captain's List" like thousands of others.
Read CAPR 35-5, Para 5-4 for details on future promotions after initial professional promotion. It varies by speciality.
CFI is not a Professional Appointment. CAPR 35-5, Sect. E, para 5-1 says
Quote5-1. General. This section prescribes the requirements and procedure for initial appointment and subsequent promotion of CAP members who serve as chaplains, character development instructors, health service personnel, legal officers, professional educators serving as aerospace education officers and financial professionals serving as finance officers.
As for trainign requirements,
Quote from: CAPR 35-55-2. Training Requirements. Professional personnel must complete Level I prior to appointment to CAP officer grade. Health Service personnel, legal officers, professional educators serving as aerospace education officers and financial professionals serving as finance officers are exempt from all other training requirements prescribed for promotion to additional grades.
Health service and Legal officers do not have to complete anything other than Level I, even if they are not serving in that duty assignment. The rest are exempt as long as they are serving in that duty assignment. If your CPA decides he's done with finance, he has to meet the requirements for any further promotions.
Quote from: arajca on September 29, 2009, 10:42:18 PM
Health service and Legal officers do not have to complete anything other than Level I, even if they are not serving in that duty assignment.
True, but why would you give a medical professional advanced grade if they aren't going to serve in an HSO / MO capacity?
Legal Officer special appointments go directly to NHQ and do not stop at Wing or Region, however again, this is only if they are an LGL. Lawyers, in and of themselves don't get bling just for the sheepskin and the license.
I don't see where they are ever required to do anything else after getting that initial bump. I suppose that technically you could demote them based on CAPR35-5 1-9 for failure to perform their duties satisfactorily, but I think that would be a HUGE stretch.
The same could be said for mission-related skills appointments. Say you gave a guy Capt. for having an CFI rating and three years later he drops his pilot license entirely due to a medical issue. Are we going to demote him back to the lowest rank he is otherwise qualified for? I think not.
While I certainly hate the idea of even having mission or professional-related appointments even I will admit that the data shows that the majority of folks do eventually catch up in their PD training if they stay in very long.
I think the take away here is don't promote them until they are actively meeting appropriate requirements.
Lawyers should be doing legal or IG stuff, doctors should be HSO'ing, etc.
You can justify demotion any way you feel is appropriate. You can also ensure that people are not promoted just because they can be.
Agree 100% on being strict about that initial appointment.
Now, if you have someone who got that initial appointment and is sitting in a staff job and never does the actual work, I certainly wouldn't keep him in that job where he is accumulating time that could count towards specialty track advancement. I wouldn't demote him for not doing the job, I'd just remove him from the position.
Unfortunately, our inspection program basically urges commanders to put bodies in slots on the chart even if those bodies aren't doing anything.
A lawyer joins with 9 years legal experience and is given Captain rank. A year later he/she has 10 years experience and gets promoted to Major. In reality, Legal Officers and Medical Officers have very little to do in fulfilling their duties. By completing National Legal Officer College (a week at a very nice hotel), they can be promoted to Lt. Col. They are rewarded for their education and their presence in CAP and the sphere of influence they have (supposedly). They have the opportunity to meet with and talk to legislators, etc. They do carry a bigger stick than your everyday ground team leader or peter pilot.. JMHO..
Quote from: AirAux on September 29, 2009, 11:52:34 PM
A lawyer joins with 9 years legal experience and is given Captain rank.
Not quite.
A lawyer joins CAP and is appointed by the Wing (or higher as per the latest reg) as a Legal Officer and they become eligible for Captain (etc., etc.).
You don't get
anything if you're a lawyer who is also a pilot and just wants to fly (assuming you're following the spirit of the program).
Considering the discussion was of professional appointments, I assumed that was a given that was understood by all. My sincerest apologies for the oversight..
Quote from: AirAux on September 30, 2009, 01:07:27 AM
Considering the discussion was of professional appointments, I assumed that was a given that was understood by all. My sincerest apologies for the oversight..
Sadly its not. There plenty, far too many, people who are recruited based on shoulder bling, or made promises after they join and read the regs that say what is possible, given advance grade and then do little or nothing justifying the appointment.
Personally I look for 6+months of actual performance of "whatever" before I'll consider any advance grade.
Fly some O-rides (which means you're a CAP pilot), etc., and then come see me.
Two contrasts in professional appointment as Chaplain...but keep in mind that this was well over 15 years ago, and I was new to CAP myself and had no clue how such things worked (not that I do now, for that matter).
My unit got a Chaplain who was an ordained minister in the Baptist Church. He came in automatically as a 2/LT, if I remember correctly. It took a long time to get his ecclesiastical endorsement, since his particular division of Baptists had no central authority to speak of. But when he finally did, he got bumped up to 1/LT, which he remained until he got a call to another church and left.
I thought Chaplains automatically came in as Captains once their ecclesiastical endorsement came in but didn't hold rank until then. ??? I don't remember this Chaplain being an SMWOG for too long.
Another Chaplain was already well-established in CAP when he came to us as a Captain. He was also a rated Observer, did comms...lots of other stuff besides Chaplaincy. He told me about the "catch-up" factor before he could be promoted to Major, but I don't know that he ever was, as he also took a call to another church and moved away.
Both of them were great guys but I don't remember the first guy doing much in the way of professional development, while the second guy did quite a lot.
But I could be completely wrong, since I think CAP treats Chaplains different to other direct-professions.
Chaplains are different situations altogether.
The are appointed by the National Commander (as a matter of regulation, if not in practice).
The cannot be demoted - if a situation arises which would warrant demotion, they are terminated from CAP.
While serving in the role of a Chaplain, they are exempt from all other professional development requirements except for time-in-grade.
Termination of their Chaplain appointment requires the approval of at least the Wing.
Below is the criteria:
Quote from: CAPR 35-5
Chaplains. Concurrent with appointment as chaplain in CAP, chaplains may be appointed to an appropriate grade as outlined below. Requirements for appointment as CAP chaplains are outlined in CAPR 265-1, The CAP Chaplain Program.
(1) First Lieutenant. A clergyperson with a bachelor's degree from a nationally accredited college (listed in the Higher Education Directory or recognized by the Armed Forces Chaplains Board), and at least 5 years ministry experience meets the qualifications for a chaplain waiver appointment as outlined in CAPR 265-1.
(2) Captain. A clergyperson with a bachelor's degree and seminary degree or a bachelor's degree and more than 7 years of ministry experience.
14 CAPR 35-5 21 AUGUST 2008
(3) Major. A clergyperson with an earned doctorate degree in a ministry related field and 1 year time-in-grade as a captain.
With that said, this only applies to members in "Chaplain" status - like anything else, just being a member of clergy is not enough, you have to agree to accept the duties of the CAP Chaplain service, and the unit or Group CC has to be interested in having you be his Chaplain.
If you step back from being a Chaplain, then you're just a regular member, subject to all the same PD requirements as everyone else, and I would say subject to demotion if you don't perform at the grade level you hold. (i.e a Major who got it because of the Chaplaincy, knows nothing about CAP, and performs well below grade level or make a big boo-boo).
The individual in question received an advanced promotion as an AE officer(Captain initially, major a year later). There was prior staff experience as a college professor(not currently associated with a college or university).
E-services shows the individual with the AE track, but no level shows "None".
So, it's not a chaplain being discussed.
Well, unless anyone has a problem with his current service, he can stay a Captain forever, but he's got to complete Level III to be considered for Major, including getting to a Senior level in a specialty.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 30, 2009, 03:28:29 AM
The individual in question received an advanced promotion as an AE officer(Captain initially, major a year later). There was prior staff experience as a college professor(not currently associated with a college or university).
E-services shows the individual with the AE track, but no level shows "None".
So, it's not a chaplain being discussed.
To have received an appointment as an AEO, based on his being on the faculty of a college, he must be a
current member of the faculty former doesn't count. Same with Physicians, Teachers, lawyers, and clergy. A current license to practice or state or Bar certification is required. For Chaplains their endorsments agency must still be current.
Quote from: Eclipse link=topic=9010.msg162507#msg162507 date
b]While serving in the role of a Chaplain, they are exempt from all other professional development requirements except for time-in-grade.[/b]Termination of their Chaplain appointment requires the approval of at least the Wing.
Below is the criteria:
Quote from: CAPR 35-5
Chaplains. Concurrent with appointment as chaplain in CAP, chaplains may be appointed to an appropriate grade as outlined below. Requirements for appointment as CAP chaplains are outlined in CAPR 265-1, The CAP Chaplain Program.
(1) First Lieutenant. A clergyperson with a bachelor's degree from a nationally accredited college (listed in the Higher Education Directory or recognized by the Armed Forces Chaplains Board), and at least 5 years ministry experience meets the qualifications for a chaplain waiver appointment as outlined in CAPR 265-1.
(2) Captain. A clergyperson with a bachelor's degree and seminary degree or a bachelor's degree and more than 7 years of ministry experience.
14 CAPR 35-5 21 AUGUST 2008
(3) Major. A clergyperson with an earned doctorate degree in a ministry related field and 1 year time-in-grade as a captain.
As of the Winter boards, Chaplains have no exemption from professional development requirements for advancement. In other words, the Chaplain that comes in and is appointed at the grade of Captain, must still complete all the requirements of Level III, including time in grade, before promotion to major.
Chaplains also no longer have anything that will substitute for SLS or CLC. Chaplains must take those classes in order to promote.
Also, Chaplains are no longer automatically given the technician rating in the specialty track (please know that the chaplain specialty track has been completely re-written and is going through the approval process now). In other words, Chaplains
can be appointed at an advanced grade, however to promote beyond that grade we are now subject to the regular senior member professional development requirements.
I sure hope that Chappie will correct anything I've gotten wrong here ;D!
Since we are on this topic I will start here as not to create another thread.
I have a SM 2d Lt that just transfered to us from National Patron Squadron and got his 2d Lt. He is retired from the Immigration Service and holds a GS-13. He says that the GS-13 is equiv to a Military Lt Col.
He is pushing both me as the Personnel Officer and our Commanding Officer to put in for Exceptional Qualification to the grade of Lt Col.
He was in the Air Force as a TSgt and completed the Command NCO Academy. Which he has been credited ECI 13.
What would be the best source of explaining to this member that I have already spoke to NHQ and there is no way they will allow the promotion based upon a GS-13 rating?
Hey... about direct appointments for outdoor specialists, wildland firefighters, foresters, SF types, SERE types, airborne life support specialists, real infantry types and others who spend MORE time in the outdoors living and practicing outdoor skills such as land nav, map reading, GPS work, survey work, etc.
How a bout a direct "CAP commission" to 1LT or CPT?
These folks are doing this everyday and when or if they come into CAP how about a little tidbit for them?
CAP seems to put tooooo much time worrying about the CFI's, MD's and lawyers and in turn those folks worry too much about "rank" they can get. This is where, in some cases, CAP gets its wannabee stigma from those professionals who can now tout "I am a LT COL in the CAP!!!!!"
I was just happy to get 1LT based on my US Army NCO Academies, FAA Commercial ticket, and A&P
But then, what do I know about that desire to get all the CAP "rank" based on my civilian skills ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: FLCAP 834 on September 30, 2009, 12:54:29 PM
What would be the best source of explaining to this member that I have already spoke to NHQ and there is no way they will allow the promotion based upon a GS-13 rating?
Just have a direct conversation that CAP only offers grade equivalence for current or retired military not government jobs. The regs are your source on this as he won't find anything to the contrary in there.
Quote from: FLCAP 834 on September 30, 2009, 12:54:29 PM
What would be the best source of explaining to this member that I have already spoke to NHQ and there is no way they will allow the promotion based upon a GS-13 rating?
Seems simple to me. "We inquired, and unfortunately the regulations do not allow for advanced promotions for this situation. We tried."
Oh, and a GS-13 being the equivalent of a Lt Col is the same as my General Manager being the equivalent of a Lt Gen. They get paid similarly, have about the same AOR, but they are not "equivalent." A Navy Commander and a Lt Col are "equivalent."
Quote from: FLCAP 834 on September 30, 2009, 12:54:29 PM
Since we are on this topic I will start here as not to create another thread.
I have a SM 2d Lt that just transfered to us from National Patron Squadron and got his 2d Lt. He is retired from the Immigration Service and holds a GS-13. He says that the GS-13 is equiv to a Military Lt Col.
He is pushing both me as the Personnel Officer and our Commanding Officer to put in for Exceptional Qualification to the grade of Lt Col.
I cannot tell you how skeptical and leery I would be of a new member that tried this. How to tell him? Don't blame NHQ (I wouldn't even have considered asking them in a situation like this), just say that you don't think his background warrants it.
Obviously, a mistake has been made. Yer man should be directed to the nearest Civil Service Air Patrol squadron, where his GS grade will be recognized and respected.
It sounds to me like this guy is full of himself and trying to make himself look important. The grade and rank are equated for things like duty assignments and pecking order at meetings and the like, but they are NOT the same thing.
(And if they are deemed to be the same, I demand my promotion to Major immediately.) ;D
GS Rank?? It is a pay grade.... Last unit I was in the entry level positions were GS-12. I had GS-13s working for O3s. I tried to make sure the GS14s at least worked for a O4.
Yeah, a GS13 is the Lt Col equivalent for protocol reasons. I'm a 14 and I get to call Cols by their first name. That's about as far as it goes. There's a couple of my fellow 14s who I wouldn't pee on if they were on fire. Heck, I know one who made 14 when he was 29. So what?
Quote from: davedove on September 30, 2009, 07:22:16 PM
(And if they are deemed to be the same, I demand my promotion to Major immediately.) ;D
Denied.
;D
I'm curious if the impact is cumulative. A retired Colonel currently serving as a GG-15 equates to what on the CAP pay scale?
Depends on what a GG-15 is..
Quote from: Ranger75 on October 01, 2009, 04:09:13 PM
I'm curious if the impact is cumulative. A retired Colonel currently serving as a GG-15 equates to what on the CAP pay scale?
Lt. Col would be the max he could be appointed.
If I remember correctly, a GG-15 is the same thing as a GS-15 and it has no equivalent in military(or CAP) rank. If this guy is a retired O-6, he can be promoted to LtCol in CAP on the basis of his military rank. I know, because I are one. I also happened to be a GS-15 in one of my previous lives.
Quote from: Ranger75 on October 01, 2009, 04:09:13 PMI'm curious if the impact is cumulative. A retired Colonel currently serving as a GG-15 equates to what on the CAP pay scale?
There is no pay scale to equate to. As to his rank, he could become a Lt Col.
If said person were to become a wing/region commander or certain positions on National staff, they could achieve full bird status, but only due to the position not by virtue of having been a colonel before.
I'm coming to the conclusion, after years of watching this play out, that if CAP is going to offer advanced grade for professional experience or mission related skills, it should only be available upon completion of Level II....by that point, someone has been a member for a year or more, and the squadron commander has a pretty good idea of their contributions and character.
Gentlemen -- Thanks for the responses to my query about the cumulative impact of prior military service and current civil service grade. As one who has been asssociated with CAP for a good number of years, the question was posed tongue-in-check, specifically with reference to the CAP pay scale. I do appreciate your willingness to offer a serious response to what was evidently viewed, unintentionally on my part, as a serious question.
Bosshawk -- The GG scale was previously applied to DoD intel types and followed the general scheme and salaries of the GS scale. Currently, the work force is converting to the pay band system associated with the new Defense Civilian Intelligence Personnel System (Pay-for-Performance).
Well, if they are going for Pay for Performance, that should certainly cut the budget severely..HeHe.. ;D
Some of us are senior enough to be grandfathered in. Therefore, pay-for-breathing still exists.
Ranger 75: thanks for the clarification. I vaguely remembered that GG existed, wasn't sure where. While I was a professional intel guy, I wasn't under the DoD system, except in my military career.
^ Do you have to kill us now?
Quote from: ZigZag911 on October 01, 2009, 05:02:34 PMI'm coming to the conclusion, after years of watching this play out, that if CAP is going to offer advanced grade for professional experience or mission related skills, it should only be available upon completion of Level II....by that point, someone has been a member for a year or more, and the squadron commander has a pretty good idea of their contributions and character.
I kinda like this idea. It would eliminate someone getting an advancement and then doing nothing of value. It would also eliminate some swelled egos (Yes, I've seen it, although it's not representative of the majority of such promotions). Then there's the additional benefit that you don't have a member with advanced rank that's still rather clueless abou the organization.
Promote the member normally up to Level 2, kick the promotion in when they complete it. Plus it would show how motivated they are.
I like the idea, but this would essentially eliminate a lot of the appointments which would make it hard to get approved.
Although I've got no data to back this up, I suspect the most common special appointment we have is for pilots, and this would essentially eliminate the appointment for private pilots (2nd Lt) and Instrument pilots (1st Lt), and make it almost meaningless for CFIs as they would have to do everything else to get Captain but the time in grade.
Quote from: RiverAux on October 02, 2009, 02:48:22 AM
I like the idea, but this would essentially eliminate a lot of the appointments which would make it hard to get approved.
Although I've got no data to back this up, I suspect the most common special appointment we have is for pilots, and this would essentially eliminate the appointment for private pilots (2nd Lt) and Instrument pilots (1st Lt), and make it almost meaningless for CFIs as they would have to do everything else to get Captain but the time in grade.
Good point. I still think that maybe it shouldn't be awarded immediately. Maybe a requirement to achieve Technician in a specialty track. For those advanced promotions involving a specific track (Medical, AE, Finance, etc.), the individual would be required to advance in that specific track for advanced and subsequent promotions.
As for the time, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold off the 2LT promotion til a year. A member could be qualified in almost any specialty track by then. You'd also never have worry about promoting someone and then have them bail.
The individual I've mentioned received both the initial promotion to Captain, and the subsequent promotion to Major at a year with no advancement in the specialty track (AE). A system like above would have eliminated that. Now there is a person who basically received a free ticket to Major with no real work invested.
I know the person mentioning it feels a bit put off by the fact that it took them a little over six years to make Major, and the individual in question had it in about 14 months. I can understand the feeling, and have been trying to avoid entertaining the same thought (although I honestly don't think anyone could fault a person for it.)
So, considering all the above, what would any of you folks do if you were in a position to do something about it?
Quote from: RiverAux on October 02, 2009, 02:48:22 AM...and make it almost meaningless for CFIs as they would have to do everything else to get Captain but the time in grade.
So?
Completing Level II is not that difficult - they'd be eligible for Captain right around the time they can actually
be of use to CAP, and fully invested.
This would cut the organic time to Captain in about 1/2, and give us a lot less "seat filler" Captains, as to get the second bar you'd have to do something besides fly. Those not interested in 2 bars can fly all they want with a gold or a silver bar, which is really where pilots who don't want to do anything but fly really belong anyway.
Professional Appointments always seemed odd to me.
I can understand the rational behind a legislative appointment, with the impression that senators, etc would have interacting with a 2d Lt. They're used to talking to 0-5+...
I can also understand the rational behind the prior military appointments.
However, I don't understand how the rest of the discussions go.
"I see you're a pilot, would you be interested in joining Civil Air Patrol?"
"Nah."
"I'll make you a Captain."
"Oh, OK."
I'd just as soon the special appointments simply went away, the serve zero purpose in CAP, but cause a lot of problems.
Giving a CFI the grade of Captain implies he knows "something" special. He doesn't.
A new member-CFI walking in the door know lots about airplanes and nothing about CAP. The first 6 months to 1 year the former isn't going to be much use versus the latter.
The same goes for prior military - just because you can lead people who are consistently trained, and paid to obey your orders, doesn't mean you can lead volunteers who will treat your directives as suggestions. Nor does it give you a clue what 60-1 or 52-16 are.
Then there's this nonsense that legislatures, other military, and similar will somehow respect the person more because they are "x" grade, since they are "used to dealing with that level". If the person you're dealing with actually has that issue, they don't understand CAP. In a CAP context, the grade buys yo about 5 minutes, after which its all about execution (or lack thereof).
Drop the special appointments and let all of us play on a level field, then at least the grade will have the weight of knowledge, experience, and participation meaningful to CAP.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 02, 2009, 03:56:50 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on October 02, 2009, 02:48:22 AM...and make it almost meaningless for CFIs as they would have to do everything else to get Captain but the time in grade.
So?
Completing Level II is not that difficult - they'd be eligible for Captain right around the time they can actually
be of use to CAP, and fully invested.
That was my point. If they don't get the special appiontment until completing level 2 that makes it almost not worth having at all if the special appointment is for Capt. rank and worthless for those below that.
I personally think that there should not be any special appointments for any reason at all (including current or former military officers), and was just pointing out that such a limitation would be viewed as very extreme and therefore would have no chance of being supported.
CAP rank and grade structure is absolutely meaningless, anyway
So if CAP is to abolish the special appointments and all this sourness towards former and current military members...
Get rid of CAP and grade... because in reality it means even less than military rank and structure and then what meaning would CAP have without its ranks, grade, and "chain of command?"
It would then really only be a search and recovery volunteer organization with all its uniform variants
Quote from: heliodoc on October 02, 2009, 09:36:02 PM
... and all this sourness towards former and current military members...
No one ever said anything bout being "sour towards the military..."
Professional Appointments are slightly different than promotion based on "Mission Skills". Mission skills is how pilots are advanced ahead. What are the three CAP missions? Do you think a CFI could contribute to any of them? The answer is "yes" to all three, but any one is enough.
See CAPR35-5 for details
Section D: Mission Related Skills. Applies to pilots, instructors, maintenance, and radio.
Section E: Professional Appointments. Applies to chaplins, finance, health service, legal, and educators.
Should an accountant advance to Captain and not a CFI or ATP?
Quote from: heliodoc on October 02, 2009, 09:36:02 PM
It would then really only be a search and recovery volunteer organization with all its uniform variants
Which we are as it is anyway, with of course the Cadet members.
I wouldn't say no to trimming-down some of the uniforms; i.e., our uniforms being:
Dress: Blue CSU
Work/Field: Blue BDU (why do we have to be camouflaged?)/blue utility jumpsuit
Flying: Blue NOMEX flight suit, blue utility jumpsuit
I think that would also solve some of the issues of distinguishing us from the Air Force, but nobody asked me.
But as far as rank with professional appointments, I don't see why a pilot should get a leg up just for being a pilot (maybe it's because I'm not a pilot!). I also wouldn't see a problem with increasing TIG for 2nd Lt to one year.
The US Navy Sea Cadets do that; a member has to serve in an unranked position before a year before appointment to Ensign (former NCO's come in as Chief Warrant Officers):
http://libertyagtr5div.org/AboutUs.htm#WhoRWO
My first CAP unit was co-located with an NSCC unit, and it seemed to work well for them.
My own opinion is that professional appointments should be restricted to medical (including nurses, dental and mental health), Chaplains and legal officers, but again nobody asked me.
Quote from: CyBorg on October 03, 2009, 12:58:34 AMDress: Blue CSU
Then we'll need an accompanying reg change to allow the fuzzies to wear it.
QuoteMy own opinion is that professional appointments should be restricted to medical (including nurses, dental and mental health), Chaplains and legal officers, but again nobody asked me.
And I'm of exactly the opposite opinion. In my experience, the Mission Related Skills folks contribute their skills and experience much more on a week-to-week basis than the Professional Appointment folks.
Med folks
can't do much med stuff, and the chaplains and legal beagles
don't do as much, mostly because of a lack of need (discounting ML duties for the cadets).
YMMV.
Quote from: RiverAux on October 02, 2009, 02:48:22 AM
I like the idea, but this would essentially eliminate a lot of the appointments which would make it hard to get approved.
Although I've got no data to back this up, I suspect the most common special appointment we have is for pilots, and this would essentially eliminate the appointment for private pilots (2nd Lt) and Instrument pilots (1st Lt), and make it almost meaningless for CFIs as they would have to do everything else to get Captain but the time in grade.
Perhaps for the special appointments to lieutenant grade we require something related in addition to Level 1, eg, technician rating in appropriate specialty, or completion of CAPF 5 for pilots
While on this topic, my personal favorite (*rolling eyes*) is the Finance Officer Professional Appointment...
Quote
Finance Officers.
Upon successful completion of Level I, the unit commander may initiate a CAPF 2 on qualified finance officers, recommending appointment to an appropriate grade, as outlined below.
(1) First Lieutenant. A financial professional with an associate's degree in accounting and 2 years verified work experience in the accounting profession or a high school diploma and 5 years of verified work experience in the accounting profession.
(2) Captain. A financial professional with a bachelor's degree in accounting and 2 years verified work experience in the accounting profession or a master's degree in accounting, certified public accountant (CPA) or certified management accountant (CMA).
(3) Major. A financial professional with a master's degree in accounting, certified public accountant (CPA) or certified management accountant (CMA) that has served 1 year time-in-grade as a captain may be appointed to the grade of major.
While the other appointments usually involve an advanced degree, the Finance Officer can receive a professional appointment with just a high school diploma or an associate's degree and a bit of work experience?
Not to mention that if they actually have a grad degree and no work experience or are a CPA or CMA, then they can be a Major in a year.
Its interesting that someone with advanced degrees in another field wouldn't get anything and yet someone with just a high school diploma would receive a professional appointment. In my unit, we had a few members with various grad degrees who weren't exactly happy about this.
While I am not a fan of professional appointments in CAP, if we are going to have them, then there needs to be an overhaul of the specifics involved.
I don't think it should be required of pilots to fly as CAP pilots for promotion under "mission skills". Another mission of CAP is aerospace education. A CFI (or knowledgeable pilot) could teach cadets and/or seniors and use their skills for that specific mission. Teachers are promoted due to thier teacher training and experience, why not pilots?
Quote from: DBlair on October 04, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
While on this topic, my personal favorite (*rolling eyes*) is the Finance Officer Professional Appointment...
Quote
Finance Officers.
Upon successful completion of Level I, the unit commander may initiate a CAPF 2 on qualified finance officers, recommending appointment to an appropriate grade, as outlined below.
(1) First Lieutenant. A financial professional with an associate's degree in accounting and 2 years verified work experience in the accounting profession or a high school diploma and 5 years of verified work experience in the accounting profession.
(2) Captain. A financial professional with a bachelor's degree in accounting and 2 years verified work experience in the accounting profession or a master's degree in accounting, certified public accountant (CPA) or certified management accountant (CMA).
(3) Major. A financial professional with a master's degree in accounting, certified public accountant (CPA) or certified management accountant (CMA) that has served 1 year time-in-grade as a captain may be appointed to the grade of major.
While the other appointments usually involve an advanced degree, the Finance Officer can receive a professional appointment with just a high school diploma or an associate's degree and a bit of work experience?
Not to mention that if they actually have a grad degree and no work experience or are a CPA or CMA, then they can be a Major in a year.
Its interesting that someone with advanced degrees in another field wouldn't get anything and yet someone with just a high school diploma would receive a professional appointment. In my unit, we had a few members with various grad degrees who weren't exactly happy about this.
While I am not a fan of professional appointments in CAP, if we are going to have them, then there needs to be an overhaul of the specifics involved.
As my wife discovered, an accounting degree program has some hurdles that many other programs don't have. She bailed from hers when she realized that that she wouldn't be able to finish it within the industry imposed time limit. She was working full time (USN AD, and taking classes nights and weekends, and couldn't take classes fast enough to meet the time requirements. The program had to be completed within 5 years of starting. Whether this is a significant enough factor, coupled with the usefulness to CAP finance, is certainly debatable.
YMMV.