Uniform policies if NAT/CC

[RiverAux]

So if you get hurt and get fat but don't get bounced, you gotta wear sumpin'.

Make them wear CAP corporates 

[Eclipse]

So if you get hurt and get fat but don't get bounced, you gotta wear sumpin'.

Make them wear CAP corporates 

You would never have an airman break the tape ever again.

[ZigZag911]

The USAF does not have H/W standards any more.   If a USAF member is really big...he is still in the USAF and still must wear his uniform.
Even if he is on his way out.   But even then "on his way out" can be a process that takes up to a year or more depending on the actual circumstances.

That has always been my beef with the CAP H/W standard as imposed on us by the USAF.   I can understand the concept of "we don't big people out there representing the USAF".......but they don't hold their own people to that same standard.

Really???

Ma Blue to CAP: "Do as I say, not as I do"?

I've been in CAP since 1970, WIWAC...really wondered about the integrity of some of the leadership on both sides of the house at times over those decades...but this one is beyond belief.

I can't think of the appropriate word to describe it -- since the late '80s CAP members have been hearing all kinds of sanctimonious drivel from the Air Force regarding this issue...and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and presume for at least some of those years they followed it too...but to keep us to a standard they have allowed to lapse is sheer, unmitigated, unforgivable HYPOCRISY!!!

I'd say they should be ashamed of themselves (those responsible, obviously, not the entire USAF), but amoral, dishonorable people generally are not familiar with the concept of shame.

[Storm Chaser]

The USAF does not have H/W standards any more.   If a USAF member is really big...he is still in the USAF and still must wear his uniform.
Even if he is on his way out.   But even then "on his way out" can be a process that takes up to a year or more depending on the actual circumstances.

That has always been my beef with the CAP H/W standard as imposed on us by the USAF.   I can understand the concept of "we don't big people out there representing the USAF".......but they don't hold their own people to that same standard.

Really???

Ma Blue to CAP: "Do as I say, not as I do"?

I've been in CAP since 1970, WIWAC...really wondered about the integrity of some of the leadership on both sides of the house at times over those decades...but this one is beyond belief.

I can't think of the appropriate word to describe it -- since the late '80s CAP members have been hearing all kinds of sanctimonious drivel from the Air Force regarding this issue...and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and presume for at least some of those years they followed it too...but to keep us to a standard they have allowed to lapse is sheer, unmitigated, unforgivable HYPOCRISY!!!

I'd say they should be ashamed of themselves (those responsible, obviously, not the entire USAF), but amoral, dishonorable people generally are not familiar with the concept of shame.

The USAF used to have a H/W table, but hasn't for a long time. That table had more stringent requirements that the ones required of CAP members. I bet CAP is still using the same one that was approved many, many years ago and hasn't revise it since.

That said, last I checked CAP senior members are not required to do PT or get their waist measure or are required to be weighed one or twice a year like AF members are. CAP members are also not kicked out or disciplined when they don't meet this standard.

Finally, CAP members wear of the AF-style uniform is a privilege, not a right. The AF is not obligated to let CAP wear their uniform at all and have every right to impose any requirements they see fit. If CAP members don't like those requirements, they're free to wear CAP corporate-style uniforms or to leave CAP at any time.

[PHall]

The USAF does not have H/W standards any more.   If a USAF member is really big...he is still in the USAF and still must wear his uniform.
Even if he is on his way out.   But even then "on his way out" can be a process that takes up to a year or more depending on the actual circumstances.

That has always been my beef with the CAP H/W standard as imposed on us by the USAF.   I can understand the concept of "we don't big people out there representing the USAF".......but they don't hold their own people to that same standard.

Really???

Ma Blue to CAP: "Do as I say, not as I do"?

I've been in CAP since 1970, WIWAC...really wondered about the integrity of some of the leadership on both sides of the house at times over those decades...but this one is beyond belief.

I can't think of the appropriate word to describe it -- since the late '80s CAP members have been hearing all kinds of sanctimonious drivel from the Air Force regarding this issue...and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and presume for at least some of those years they followed it too...but to keep us to a standard they have allowed to lapse is sheer, unmitigated, unforgivable HYPOCRISY!!!

I'd say they should be ashamed of themselves (those responsible, obviously, not the entire USAF), but amoral, dishonorable people generally are not familiar with the concept of shame.

If CAP did the entire Air Force Fitness Program, on a required for membership basis, then they could get rid of the Height/Weight Tables too.
But that ain't happening, so we use the tables because they're easy for us to use.

[Shuman 14]

So, we are not even sure that there is a significant problem in the first place. 

[Salty]

I found this interesting.  My wife and I were discussing the USAF, weight and height restrictions.  It seems there is just one chart now that everyone has to meet for entrance to the USAF.  If you don't meet this chart they move to the BMI index and BFA test.

http://www.airforce.com/height-weight/

[PHall]

I found this interesting.  My wife and I were discussing the USAF, weight and height restrictions.  It seems there is just one chart now that everyone has to meet for entrance to the USAF.  If you don't meet this chart they move to the BMI index and BFA test.

http://www.airforce.com/height-weight/

Yeah, that chart is for initial entry into the Air Force. Other then medical examinations, probably the last time you will get weighed in the Air Force.
Physical Fitness Test results and Waistline measurement is what they use today. 

[Salty]

Yeah I was looking through the new program last night.  They've come a long way since the days of the cycle ergometry tests during my time on active duty.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So if you get hurt and get fat but don't get bounced, you gotta wear sumpin'.

Make them wear CAP corporates 

Your cruelty in making such a statement is unbounded.  Fie, fie on you, knave!

[Storm Chaser]

I found this interesting.  My wife and I were discussing the USAF, weight and height restrictions.  It seems there is just one chart now that everyone has to meet for entrance to the USAF.  If you don't meet this chart they move to the BMI index and BFA test.

http://www.airforce.com/height-weight/

Yeah, that chart is for initial entry into the Air Force. Other then medical examinations, probably the last time you will get weighed in the Air Force.
Physical Fitness Test results and Waistline measurement is what they use today.

Actually, you do get weighed every time you do the fitness test; twice a year for most and once a year for those who score 90 or higher. The weigh-in, however, is not used for scoring (the waist circumference measurement is), but to help compute the BMI. Also, it's not used to determine uniform wear eligibility, as every member is required to wear a uniform.

[PHall]

I found this interesting.  My wife and I were discussing the USAF, weight and height restrictions.  It seems there is just one chart now that everyone has to meet for entrance to the USAF.  If you don't meet this chart they move to the BMI index and BFA test.

http://www.airforce.com/height-weight/

Yeah, that chart is for initial entry into the Air Force. Other then medical examinations, probably the last time you will get weighed in the Air Force.
Physical Fitness Test results and Waistline measurement is what they use today.

Actually, you do get weighed every time you do the fitness test; twice a year for most and once a year for those who score 90 or higher. The weigh-in, however, is not used for scoring (the waist circumference measurement is), but to help compute the BMI. Also, it's not used to determine uniform wear eligibility, as every member is required to wear a uniform.

Maybe your unit did it, but in my unit, unless you exceeded 38 inches on your waist measurement you didn't get weighed.
No need to and not having to weigh everybody sped up the process.

[Storm Chaser]

I found this interesting.  My wife and I were discussing the USAF, weight and height restrictions.  It seems there is just one chart now that everyone has to meet for entrance to the USAF.  If you don't meet this chart they move to the BMI index and BFA test.

http://www.airforce.com/height-weight/

Yeah, that chart is for initial entry into the Air Force. Other then medical examinations, probably the last time you will get weighed in the Air Force.
Physical Fitness Test results and Waistline measurement is what they use today.

Actually, you do get weighed every time you do the fitness test; twice a year for most and once a year for those who score 90 or higher. The weigh-in, however, is not used for scoring (the waist circumference measurement is), but to help compute the BMI. Also, it's not used to determine uniform wear eligibility, as every member is required to wear a uniform.

Maybe your unit did it, but in my unit, unless you exceeded 38 inches on your waist measurement you didn't get weighed.
No need to and not having to weigh everybody sped up the process.

I can't speak for what they used to do in your unit. But weigh-ins are now (and have been for several years) part of the Air Force physical fitness program.

Body composition (height, weight, and AC [abdominal circumference]) must be the first component assessed in the FA [fitness assessment].

Obtain height and weight IAW DoDI 1308.3. These measurements are not factored into the member's composite score.

The [weight assessment] measurement will be made on a scale calibrated IAW TO 33K-1-100-1, Section 3, Technical Manual on Calibration Procedure for Maintenance Data Collection Codes and Calibration Measurement Summaries, and recorded to the nearest pound with the following guidance.

[Eclipse]

[SarDragon]

Right back at you, Bob. You think we should do weigh-ins, but don't think we need to go to the bother of doing them right. That's an amazing PoV.

[Eclipse]

Right back at you, Bob. You think we should do weigh-ins, but don't think we need to go to the bother of doing them right. That's an amazing PoV.

The "bother of doing them right"?  What?

There's nothing in the known universe as simple as weighing someone, or giving them the option
of not having to bother.

Only CAP could make something which is already technically required and over-complicate it to the point where it isn't doable.

Step on a scale, note the number, move on. Feel that the process isn't fair?  Move on - "we're using the same scale for everybody".

No one.

Not a single member.

No one...

...who is within variance of a scale manufactured in the last 5 years would be effected by this in a negative way,
and those who we are looking to change, would be held out or simply self-select.  There are also ways
to mitigate or address objections regarding the accuracy of said scale.  As it stands today, we accept
everything from personal estimate to your bathroom scale.

Heck - here's a start.  Review the medicals of the pilots and do some math.  I'd bet there's plenty of "variance" there, and no dispute possible.

Lose the excuses and get it done.

[ZigZag911]

Weigh in are yet another reason I favor a corporate style uniform for all seniors.

No arguments, no embarrassment, no nonsense!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Weigh in are yet another reason I favor a corporate style uniform for all seniors.

No arguments, no embarrassment, no nonsense!

Qualified agreement - if it's not the current colourless abomination of a "uniform."

[Brit_in_CAP]

Hmmm......you could just as easily be describing my last place of employment....

[catrulz]

Often wondered why CAP doesn't simply create a military style uniform that is non-Air Force and move both the Cadets and SMs into it.

I don't mind wearing blue BDUs or an aviator shirt.  But this would solve the overall uniforimty issue.  My vote would be Kahkis as a service uniform.  Draws a historic line back to former Air Force and CAP uniforms without directly stepping on the Air Forces toes.  Hmmmm, now the expense.

Well maybe not.