helicopter

[stkgc]

just wonndering why we dont used helicopters in CAP ? i think be good

[JayT]

just wonndering why we dont used helicopters in CAP ? i think be good

Why would they be good?

First, they're too expensive when compared to GA aircraft. Second, there's a lack of rated pilots and instructors. Third, they're a lot more dangerous for low hour pilots compared to GA birds.

[stkgc]

that make sense  thankyou

[Angus]

Plus helicopters don't fly.  They just the beat the air into submission.

[Flying Pig]

We actually had  a big discussion on this.  To expensive to operate and maintain.  In oder to get anything useful, we would need turbines.  An MD500E or Bell 206 at least.  Your looking at about 1.7 million for one.
Operating costs are outrageous. Figure about $500 per hr.  Just to do a Form 5 in one would probably run you about $1000.

Training for a helicopter on a funded Form 91 would cripple CAP in costs and time.  You would probably need anywhere between 700-1000 hrs before you could really head up to the mountains in a helicopter and use it for SAR.  In my agency, we fly the MD500E. We are required to have 1500hr total time with 1000hrs turbine helicopter to perform SAR ops in the mountains. For maintenance. Wheeeeewww.. Costs are through the roof.  If a pilot were to hot start an engine, $245,000.  Main rotor blades are about $55,000 for an MD500.  Igniter, $15,000.  Main Rotor hub, $130,000.  Get the picture?  And these are all time parts.  Once they his their tim limits, they MUST be replaced.  Aside from the frame and the skin.  Most everything else on a helicopter has a time use limit.

As far as not having helicopter pilots.  Oh believe me, if CAP got helicopters, CAP would get pilots.  Probably more so than people who join to fly airplanes.  However, low time R-22 pilots need not apply.  Piston helicopters would be useless for SAR unless you were searching low MSL and didn't need to pick anything or anyone up.  Trust me.  Id love it.  But CAP would be bankrupt.

[Flying Pig]

Plus helicopters don't fly.  They just the beat the air into submission.

Helicopters are the purest form of flight my friend.  Forwards, backwards, sideways, hover.  Pull off the ramp and go straight up.  MMMMMM.....Love it.

[Eclipse]

Plus helicopters don't fly.  They just the beat the air into submission.

No...they are so ugly the ground repels them!

[MSgt Van]

Plus helicopters don't fly.  They just the beat the air into submission.

Helicopters are the purest form of flight my friend. 

If riding in an aircraft is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
To really experience flight, try skydiving!   

[Eclipse]

If riding in an aircraft is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
To really experience flight, try skydiving!   

Heh - that's just "falling"...

[C-150]

Someone correct if I am wrong...but I think if a member owns a rotor they can use it on missions. At least that was case at one time. I new a menber that had a Bell 206 for his personal and business use. He flew it on a few missions. But he was an ex Army pilot with about 6000 hours. The fuel and safety are main concerns.

[N Harmon]

just wonndering why we dont used helicopters in CAP ? i think be good

We do use helicopters. We just don't operate helicopters. 

[lordmonar]

If riding in an aircraft is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
To really experience flight, try skydiving!   

Heh - that's just "falling"...

With Style! 

[Gunner C]

If riding in an aircraft is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
To really experience flight, try skydiving!   

Heh - that's just "falling"...

There's only two things in freefall I can't do that an airplane can:  go up, and land (with style).  Everything else is a go!

[AirAux]

If fixed wings are fun, then rotorcraft are pure sex..  That's why it's so darn expensive..  I think the old Bell 47 would suffice quite nicely on a mission, thank you..  Pull pitch and away we go..

[Flying Pig]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_EH101

[Spike]

Back in the Cadet days we built a "gyrocopter" from plans ordered from the back of popular mechanics.  It cost nearly $400.00, and 1 lawnmower engine.  We all took turns flying it, until it slammed into the side of a hangar at the County Airport.  Years later we found out it was not only illegal in CAP, but should a person have gotten seriously hurt the Senior Member assisting us could have been sued. 

Wow.....great memories from a CAP that accepted idiots and screwups (1990-1999) 

[Rotorhead]

Someone correct if I am wrong...but I think if a member owns a rotor they can use it on missions. At least that was case at one time. I new a menber that had a Bell 206 for his personal and business use. He flew it on a few missions. But he was an ex Army pilot with about 6000 hours. The fuel and safety are main concerns.

I believe that was back in the good old days. I remember seeing info in the regs about rotorcraft in the 1990s, but I think that's all been removed now and they are not approved at all.

[sardak]

No helicopters now. CAPR 60-1 para. 2-4(a) Ultralight, aerolight, hang glider and similar aircraft, rotorcraft, lighter-than-air, experimental, primary category, and home-built aircraft are not authorized for use on any CAP flight activity.

But in the good old days CAPM 55-1 was "CAP Member-Operated Helicopter Operations." This got rolled into CAPR 55-1 "CAP Emergency Services Mission Procedures." Helo ops disappeared from CAPR 55-1 in the October 1998 revision.  Just about the time Spike was having fun.

Two other threads that start out  - why aren't there helos in CAP?
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6167
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8931

Mike

[NIN]

If riding in an aircraft is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
To really experience flight, try skydiving!   

Heh - that's just "falling"...

With Style! 

I'll buy the "Style" part.

But "falling?"



That photo was taken at a horizontal speed of about 105mph and a vertical speed of about 73mph.

Unfortunately thats still about a 6400 foot per minute descent rate.  Not exactly your average landable sink rate.   And a glide ratio of 1.5:1 is only just a tad better than your average brick with a little bit of a shove.

But then, its still a ton of fun.

[flyguy06]

Plus helicopters don't fly.  They just the beat the air into submission.

Helicopters are the purest form of flight my friend.  Forwards, backwards, sideways, hover.  Pull off the ramp and go straight up.  MMMMMM.....Love it.

Well, I wouldnt say theyare the purest form of flying. I would gliding is the purest form of flying. No engine. You are actually "flying" the aircraft the entire time from take off to landing.