Inappropriate CAP Cadet Survey

[Майор Хаткевич]

Who am I?  I'm a father, a Christian, a former cadet, and an over 3 decade member and officer of CAP who can separate his own legitimate beliefs and biases from enforcing CAP's policies and programs of record, as apparently you can't.

That's REAL nice. You're going to go and talk about how I owe you some magical respect, while doing ad hominem? Ok, I'll play ball. What policies were violated by this survey?

It really, really irks you, doesn't it, that someone might disagree with your world view?

It really irks me when someone tries to apply their worldview to make a snowball into an avalanche, yes.

You really, really seem to have a problem with respecting my beliefs as a father that these questions are offensive.

Exactly which questions do you find offensive?

  Your lack of respect, and that of some of your fellows on CT, is on display, as you suggest that I simply quit CAP.

Your response started with lack of respect, so what are we talking about here?

I also am a guy who believes that we can and should encourage people to stay in CAP by RESPECTING their positions, beliefs, and backgrounds ESPECIALLY when we disagree with them.  I've done so (this year) for a cadet whose religion I differ with strongly, but whom I am sworn to respect and support. Can't you do the same for me?

You mean you were able to separate your own issues with a faith from the individual? Welcome to modern society I guess.

My wife and I are in charge of raising our kids - not you, not a "village" to raise our child, not the Air Force, and not CAP,

Great, because I have no interest in raising your kids for you. Still confused how this relates to the survey.

and yes, as both an officer of CAP and as a dad I have a problem with forcing outside agendas related to non-protected category sex related and intrusive disability related questions on our minor cadets

What specific agendas were forced? Did I misread the survey somehow? I'm so confused right now. Intrusive disability questions? Must have missed those as well!

without telling the parents or commanders (no, an advance copy of the survey was NOT made available to parents, commanders and DCPs, and yes, I would have objected to these questions as inappropriate, had it been).

Nor was there a requirement to do so, and yes, notification of the VOLUNTARY nature were in fact distributed. 

Why are you people all protecting your agendas and parsing and twisting definitions, and not standing by our policies and the rights of our parents?


V/R,
Spam

My only agenda when it comes to CAP is to provide the program as outlined by our regulations. I see nothing wrong with this Survey within that scope.


Adjusted your signature to reflect the actual way you presented your message.

Are you a parent?

That's by far one of the most insulting things in this thread.


Does one need to be a parent to have common sense? How about working with cadets?

Odd how I can get smacked here for NOT watching closely enough to stop CAP from breaking the policy, but then I get smacked for being TOO protective of my kids with my belief system. I refuse to let this be twisted around to be my fault that CAP broke the policy.

No, your indignation broghts about the "smacking", but no actual policies were broken.

[THRAWN]

While this survey is not a "cadet activity", using this guidance could have mitigated some of the concerns expressed here.

Agreed, but if the parents don't have updated info? Is someone at NHQ supposed to make phone contact with every parent who doesn't do the bare minimum? If the concern is that the big bad world will get your kid...teach them to share info. Got an email with a survey? Check with your parents if it's ok to fill it out, if that's what you want your kids to do.


There is absolutely NO requirement for CAP to contact/copy parents on any or all communication with cadets.

2-7. Interactions Outside CAP Activities.
a. Email and Open Social Media. When adult leaders need to communicate with cadets in the
interval between official activities, if reasonably possible they will do so via email or social media that is
visible to other members. With email, adult leaders will include their supervisor or director of cadet
programs in the distribution, except for very brief messages, or email traffic distributed to two or more
members.
b. Closed Media. Texting, private messaging, and similar forms of electronic communication that
third parties cannot easily monitor are permitted only for very brief messages of an official nature. Contact
with cadets via telephone or video conference is permitted during non-school hours.

And that is just plain wrong.

[Майор Хаткевич]

While this survey is not a "cadet activity", using this guidance could have mitigated some of the concerns expressed here.

Agreed, but if the parents don't have updated info? Is someone at NHQ supposed to make phone contact with every parent who doesn't do the bare minimum? If the concern is that the big bad world will get your kid...teach them to share info. Got an email with a survey? Check with your parents if it's ok to fill it out, if that's what you want your kids to do.


There is absolutely NO requirement for CAP to contact/copy parents on any or all communication with cadets.

2-7. Interactions Outside CAP Activities.
a. Email and Open Social Media. When adult leaders need to communicate with cadets in the
interval between official activities, if reasonably possible they will do so via email or social media that is
visible to other members. With email, adult leaders will include their supervisor or director of cadet
programs in the distribution, except for very brief messages, or email traffic distributed to two or more
members.
b. Closed Media. Texting, private messaging, and similar forms of electronic communication that
third parties cannot easily monitor are permitted only for very brief messages of an official nature. Contact
with cadets via telephone or video conference is permitted during non-school hours.

And that is just plain wrong.

Cite please.

[THRAWN]

While this survey is not a "cadet activity", using this guidance could have mitigated some of the concerns expressed here.

Agreed, but if the parents don't have updated info? Is someone at NHQ supposed to make phone contact with every parent who doesn't do the bare minimum? If the concern is that the big bad world will get your kid...teach them to share info. Got an email with a survey? Check with your parents if it's ok to fill it out, if that's what you want your kids to do.


There is absolutely NO requirement for CAP to contact/copy parents on any or all communication with cadets.

2-7. Interactions Outside CAP Activities.
a. Email and Open Social Media. When adult leaders need to communicate with cadets in the
interval between official activities, if reasonably possible they will do so via email or social media that is
visible to other members. With email, adult leaders will include their supervisor or director of cadet
programs in the distribution, except for very brief messages, or email traffic distributed to two or more
members.
b. Closed Media. Texting, private messaging, and similar forms of electronic communication that
third parties cannot easily monitor are permitted only for very brief messages of an official nature. Contact
with cadets via telephone or video conference is permitted during non-school hours.

And that is just plain wrong.

Cite please.

There is no "cite". It's wrong for any organization to communicate directly with minors and not include the guardians. There are many ways that this could have been handled. And it wasn't...

[Майор Хаткевич]

There is no "cite". It's wrong for any organization to communicate directly with minors and not include the guardians. There are many ways that this could have been handled. And it wasn't...

Can't really have a discussion if facts get in the way.

[THRAWN]

There is no "cite". It's wrong for any organization to communicate directly with minors and not include the guardians. There are many ways that this could have been handled. And it wasn't...

Can't really have a discussion if facts get in the way.

This from the non-parent. 

[LSThiker]

And that is just plain wrong.

As an opinion of how the policy should be written, yes.  However, as an assertion that CAP broke policy, then no.  CAP broke no policy as no policy that parents must be contact exists.  Should they?  Possibly.  Nevertheless, they can go direct to the cadets as of today.

Spam has admitted that he has not updated his email address in his child's eServices, yet is mad that NHQ did not contact him.  I am confused how that is NHQ's fault?

As pointed out by NC Hokie, the confidential language does not "smacks of the grooming and isolating language we are told in the CPP" as asserted by Spam.

NHQ is not pushing an agenda and is respecting the beliefs of those parents and children that identify as transgender.  The survey did not say the cadet needed to select transgender.  It did not say that the cadet or parent needs to agree with the transgender identity.  It simply provides an option for those cadets that identify as transgender.  There is no agenda being pushed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

There is no "cite". It's wrong for any organization to communicate directly with minors and not include the guardians. There are many ways that this could have been handled. And it wasn't...

Can't really have a discussion if facts get in the way.

This from the non-parent.

And there goes another.


Should I also resign from my position as CDC? Does having a child miraculously give people wisdom? A special club card?


I'll stand by my assertion, with a caveat:


Can't have a discussion when the other person isn't willing to reason.

[THRAWN]

There is no "cite". It's wrong for any organization to communicate directly with minors and not include the guardians. There are many ways that this could have been handled. And it wasn't...

Can't really have a discussion if facts get in the way.

This from the non-parent.

And there goes another.


Should I also resign from my position as CDC? Does having a child miraculously give people wisdom? A special club card?


I'll stand by my assertion, with a caveat:


Can't have a discussion when the other person isn't willing to reason.

Nor can you if the other person lacks the ability to view the issue from any other position other than their narrow and inexperienced view point. No, being a parent does not give you instant wisdom, but it does teach you, very rapidly, to be less tolerant of "innocent" actions where your child is involved.

[Майор Хаткевич]

There is no "cite". It's wrong for any organization to communicate directly with minors and not include the guardians. There are many ways that this could have been handled. And it wasn't...

Can't really have a discussion if facts get in the way.

This from the non-parent.

And there goes another.


Should I also resign from my position as CDC? Does having a child miraculously give people wisdom? A special club card?


I'll stand by my assertion, with a caveat:


Can't have a discussion when the other person isn't willing to reason.

Nor can you if the other person lacks the ability to view the issue from any other position other than their narrow and inexperienced view point. No, being a parent does not give you instant wisdom, but it does teach you, very rapidly, to be less tolerant of "innocent" actions where your child is involved.

I've yet to hear what is so inappropriate about the survey content.

[lordmonar]

It's a slow news week. 

[LSThiker]

It's a slow news week. 

It is.  Although I guess we could talk about NASA's release of the Apollo Moon conspiracy photos

[THRAWN]

There is no "cite". It's wrong for any organization to communicate directly with minors and not include the guardians. There are many ways that this could have been handled. And it wasn't...

Can't really have a discussion if facts get in the way.

This from the non-parent.

And there goes another.


Should I also resign from my position as CDC? Does having a child miraculously give people wisdom? A special club card?


I'll stand by my assertion, with a caveat:


Can't have a discussion when the other person isn't willing to reason.

Nor can you if the other person lacks the ability to view the issue from any other position other than their narrow and inexperienced view point. No, being a parent does not give you instant wisdom, but it does teach you, very rapidly, to be less tolerant of "innocent" actions where your child is involved.

I've yet to hear what is so inappropriate about the survey content.

Never said there was. You might want to actually read what you're commenting on. My position is and will be that it is in appropriate to contact children directly without notifying their parents that it is being done.

[lordmonar]

Okay......that is your position.  CAP's position is different.  Move along.

[THRAWN]

Okay......that is your position.  CAP's position is different.  Move along.

Your blind devotion and obedience is admirable.

[lordmonar]

And there's our core vales at work

[Storm Chaser]

I ask again, regardless of personal views and values, how is the gender identity of our cadets CAP's business? There's no CAP regulation that addresses gender identity or sexual orientation. You know why? Because it shouldn't matter. That information is not relevant to CAP or the Cadet Programs.

[lordmonar]

Well it does matter. We don't have rules about trans gender cadets or SM for that matter.   Maybe we (CAP and USAF) are trying to make some.   And gathering data is an important first step in identifying the situation before formulating new rules and policies.   I had a transgender person try to join my squadron just this last year.  So I know that it does exist out in the real world.

[Storm Chaser]

In that case, CAP should be contacting the parents to gather the information they need, not the cadets.

[LSThiker]

In that case, CAP should be contacting the parents to gather the information they need, not the cadets.

Talk with a transgender teen with parents that do not accept it.  The responses of the parent and the teen will be different.  It is sometimes better to get the information from the primary source.

Also, a teen may not always tell the parent until he/she is ready for the hormone therapies or needs the letter from a physician (depends on state).