Rolling over to the SM Side

Started by Майор Хаткевич, July 30, 2010, 02:33:04 PM

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Spaceman3750

It would appear that you're right... Very odd, I don't remember it being that way when I looked it up. Oh well.

Майор Хаткевич

Yep, that's what I saw as well when I looked it up. Oh well, I'm in no Rush.

SJFedor

Quote from: USAFaux2004 on August 01, 2010, 08:39:07 PM
Yep, that's what I saw as well when I looked it up. Oh well, I'm in no Rush.

This would be my question though, as well as a question for your Group or Wing Commander....

Since you're an Earhart cadet, and would be automatically (yeah not truly automatically, but i doubt anyone would hold you from it) a 1st Lt when you come over, and when you turn 21, common sense would dictate that all your time from when you convert would be towards Captain.

But I digress...

Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)

Майор Хаткевич

I guess it's just a discrepancy in the system, eh? I can ask my Group CC right now, as long as Eclipse checks this.

Eclipse

Quote from: USAFaux2004 on August 01, 2010, 09:54:12 PM
I guess it's just a discrepancy in the system, eh? I can ask my Group CC right now, as long as Eclipse checks this.

I have no idea - if you're an active member when you're 21 we can address it.  My suggestion to your CC was to see about any
professional development credit you rightly deserve for your several years of active CAP cadet service, so that the conversations should you be active again are less complicated, not to drill down to every loop hole and turn the program into a correspondence course so we can make you a Col. before you go patron.

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Eclipse on August 02, 2010, 01:36:08 AM
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on August 01, 2010, 09:54:12 PM
I guess it's just a discrepancy in the system, eh? I can ask my Group CC right now, as long as Eclipse checks this.

I have no idea - if you're an active member when you're 21 we can address it.  My suggestion to your CC was to see about any
professional development credit you rightly deserve for your several years of active CAP cadet service, so that the conversations should you be active again are less complicated, not to drill down to every loop hole and turn the program into a correspondence course so we can make you a Col. before you go patron.

Yes Sir, completely understood. Not trying to get to Captain by 21 - impossible (and pointless while not active) as is, just trying to wrap my head around the situation with 18-21 and 21-on SM status, though CAPR 35-5 is pretty clear and Patron Status is a TIG killer.

Now, does Patron status affect membership continuity?

I know that cadet time doesn't count towards CAP Retirement, otherwise there would be a lot of 32 year olds with a "20" on their Red Service and eligible for the retirement, but if a SM goes patron, say for a year between activity, does that year count towards their "20"?

Eclipse

Quote from: USAFaux2004 on August 02, 2010, 01:43:59 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 02, 2010, 01:36:08 AM
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on August 01, 2010, 09:54:12 PM
I guess it's just a discrepancy in the system, eh? I can ask my Group CC right now, as long as Eclipse checks this.

I have no idea - if you're an active member when you're 21 we can address it.  My suggestion to your CC was to see about any
professional development credit you rightly deserve for your several years of active CAP cadet service, so that the conversations should you be active again are less complicated, not to drill down to every loop hole and turn the program into a correspondence course so we can make you a Col. before you go patron.

Yes Sir, completely understood. Not trying to get to Captain by 21 - impossible (and pointless while not active) as is, just trying to wrap my head around the situation with 18-21 and 21-on SM status, though CAPR 35-5 is pretty clear and Patron Status is a TIG killer.

Now, does Patron status affect membership continuity?

I know that cadet time doesn't count towards CAP Retirement, otherwise there would be a lot of 32 year olds with a "20" on their Red Service and eligible for the retirement, but if a SM goes patron, say for a year between activity, does that year count towards their "20"?

Its 20 years of service, not necessarily continuous - no idea if Patron membership counts, its not mentioned in 35-1.  Prob a call to NHQ.

"That Others May Zoom"

spacecommand

My guess is since one cannot be promoted while as a Patron member, I guess the clock "stops" and is restarted after returning as a Active member.  Again you might want to seek clarification on that.

ßτε

Cadet service counts toward clasps on the Red Service Ribbon, even if it does not count for retirement.

I cannot find anything in CAPR 35-1 or CAPR 39-2 disallowing time in Patron status from counting toward requirement.

I cannot find anything in CAPR 35-5 or CAPR 39-2 disallowing time in Patron status from counting toward TIG for promotion.

I cannot find anything in CAPR 39-3 or CAPR 39-2 disallowing time in Patron status from counting toward clasps on the Red Service Ribbon.

Майор Хаткевич

QuoteCAPR 39-2 Civil Air Patrol Membership      16 JUNE 2004   INCLUDES CHANGE 3, 1 OCTOBER 2009 .

CHAPTER 3 – SENIOR MEMBERSHIP
3-1. General. Senior membership in CAP is a privilege reserved forthose individuals who conscientiously desire to promote the objectivesand purposes of CAP and who meet the eligibility requirements outlinedin paragraph 3-2. This privilege may be enjoyed as long as the memberobserves and complies with the CAP Constitution and Bylaws and othergoverning directives. Categories of senior membership are listed below:

b. Patron Member. A patron member is a financialsupporter who maintains current membership through payment of annualmembership dues and participates in a limited capacity as outlinedbelow.
1) Patron members may:
a) Receive a specially annotated membership card.
b) Receive the Civil Air Patrol News.
c) Receive discounts associated with senior membership (car rental, etc.).
d) Retain the last grade held prior to entering patron status.
e) Attend wing and region conferences and the annual National Boardmeeting and the National Congress on Aviation and Space Educationsponsored by National Headquarters.
f) Attend special unit social events upon invitation by the commanderconcerned, such as anniversary celebrations, awards banquets, holidayparties, etc.
g) Use Civil Air Patrol ground transportation, but use of Civil Air Patrol air transportation is prohibited.
h) Transfer to active member status upon meeting active member qualifications. (See paragraph 3 below.)
2) Patron members may not:
a) Wear the CAP uniform.
b) Ride in or fly CAP aircraft. (This includes member-owned aircraft onCAP flight activity as defined in CAPR 60-1, CAP Flight Management.)
c) Participate in CAP activities in any capacity except to attendspecified conferences and social events as outlined in paragraphs3-1b(1)e and f above.
d) Be promoted while in patron status.
3) Transfers to patron member status will be submitted to NationalHeadquarters on CAPF 2a. Section II, Duty Assignment/Status Change,will be used, i.e., transfer from "Active Status" to "Patron Status."The original copy will be forwarded directly to National Headquartersand the file copy placed in the members' personnel file. Membersdesiring to transfer back to active status will use the same procedure.NOTE: Patrons transferring to active status who have not previouslycompleted the FBI screening procedures must include a FD Form 258 withthe CAPF 2a.

A copy from the Knowledge base. Nothing specific there about TIG suspension though.

spacecommand

Very interesting, if that is the case, lets say because I was a patron member 6 months before joining a squadron and transferring to "Active" member status, are you saying I can apply for promotion to 2D LT now (already completed all of level 1) instead of the time I started when I became an "active" member"?

I'm not sure if that goes for the "spirit" of the regulations.  Of course I'm not aiming to do that, and all promotions must be approved by the higher ups. 
Just not too clear on if time in grade works as a patron.

Eclipse

#51
Quote from: spacecommand on August 02, 2010, 02:56:02 AM
Very interesting, if that is the case, lets say because I was a patron member 6 months before joining a squadron and transferring to "Active" member status, are you saying I can apply for promotion to 2D LT now (already completed all of level 1) instead of the time I started when I became an "active" member"?

You are always a member of a squadron - you cannot join as a Patron Member and not be a member of a unit.

Your three flags will go green when they go green, whether the commander chooses to click "approve", is subjective.

"That Others May Zoom"

spacecommand

Maybe I should of reworded a bit, I was a SM with NHQ-996 ("Patron" Squadron) before joining into a active squadron as an active member.

PWK-GT

Quote from: Eclipse on August 02, 2010, 01:36:08 AM
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on August 01, 2010, 09:54:12 PM
I guess it's just a discrepancy in the system, eh? I can ask my Group CC right now, as long as Eclipse checks this.

I have no idea - if you're an active member when you're 21 we can address it.  My suggestion to your CC was to see about any
professional development credit you rightly deserve for your several years of active CAP cadet service, so that the conversations should you be active again are less complicated, not to drill down to every loop hole and turn the program into a correspondence course so we can make you a Col. before you go patron.
.....which was the same thing his Squadron CC told him via numerous text messages. I'm nice up to a point.....   ;)
"Is it Friday yet"


SarDragon

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

It's a problem, If I get a spark, I start getting annoying...Lol.

Either way, I have all the pertinent information printed/copied so hopefully tonight I can take care of everything needed before going back to college AWOL.

PWK-GT

....you know, Mike, for a guy who 'doesn't have time right now'.....you've spent some considerable time dealing with this topic! LOL
"Is it Friday yet"


Майор Хаткевич

"Right Now" I have time. School is out, no night classes.

Unfortunately, this "right now" has me displaced from my residence, away from my uniforms, and with a vehicle at this moment only because I need to get around the 'burbs for the week...or two...or three...

Day 11 as Evacuee and counting after all.