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20 and out: Part Deux

Started by Simplex, December 25, 2018, 02:41:24 AM

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Simplex

Greetings and a Very Merry Christmas everyone. Recently I posted a note about my retirement and the condition of my retirement certificate, letter and copy of the form. Someone on this forum, a "Salty & Seasoned Contributor", contacted me and requested additional information and pictures which I provided. Imagine my suprise when a Fed Ex truck dropped off a box from NHQ this morning. Inside was a personal letter of apology from NHQ Personnel, a pristine retirement certificate in a really nice CAP presentation folder, a letter from NHQ/CC, with the correct date and name, etc., and a CAP 75th Anniversary Paper Weight in a presentation box.  Very, very nice! My retirement ID card arrived Dec 17th; my DOR was 1 Nov. I recall someone was retiring 31 Dec and wondered if it would go smoothly, I think it probably will. At least I hope so. Thanks to the Salty & Seasoned Contributor who took an interest in my message. And to all of you in the forum, I'd like to quote ".......Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus." Simplex, out here.

OldGuy

Merry Christmas and a very happy (and retired) New Year!

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

Spam

See, the "Airing of Grievances" actually worked!

Cheers
Spam

PHall

Quote from: Spam on December 25, 2018, 07:11:59 AM
See, the "Airing of Grievances" actually worked!

Cheers
Spam

Why wouldn't it? >:D

Simplex

Thanks everyone, best of luck to you all!

Shuman 14

Simplex,

Thank you for your many years of Service to our great Nation. please enjoy your retirement.

Merry Christmas and a Blessed New Year.

JJC
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Simplex


Chappie

My effective date was yesterday.   Submitted the paperwork at the end of October.   Haven't heard or received anything from NHQ as of this date.  Maybe too soon.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

MSG Mac

Check E-services. NHQ was just about closed for Christmas and New Years
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

PHall

Quote from: Chappie on January 02, 2019, 03:41:10 AM
My effective date was yesterday.   Submitted the paperwork at the end of October.   Haven't heard or received anything from NHQ as of this date.  Maybe too soon.

Or it's been denied! >:D     We're not going to let you go!

Chappie

Checked e-Services and "log and behold", access was denied since "My Membership has expired".   Evidently, my retirement request has been approved though no official notification has been received.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

NIN

Quote from: Chappie on January 07, 2019, 06:34:31 PM
Checked e-Services and "log and behold", access was denied since "My Membership has expired".   Evidently, my retirement request has been approved though no official notification has been received.

Paul, keep me in the loop.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

PHall

Quote from: Chappie on January 07, 2019, 06:34:31 PM
Checked e-Services and "log and behold", access was denied since "My Membership has expired".   Evidently, my retirement request has been approved though no official notification has been received.

When was your membership supposed to expire?

Chappie

Sure thing, Nin.  Phil...October of 2019.  I had renewed when I received my renewal notification...then after upping for another year, decided to retire earlier than originally planned. 
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

PHall

Well then it looks like you're Retired. Of course someone with National Access.... should be able to check your status and see if your package is on the way or not.

NIN

Quote from: PHall on January 08, 2019, 07:06:46 AM
Well then it looks like you're Retired. Of course someone with National Access.... should be able to check your status and see if your package is on the way or not.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Shuman 14

Cool Points for the SWEV:TESB GIF NIN!  ;D
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

West MI-CAP-Ret

Quote from: PHall on December 25, 2018, 05:39:15 PM
Quote from: Spam on December 25, 2018, 07:11:59 AM
See, the "Airing of Grievances" actually worked!

Cheers
Spam

Why wouldn't it? >:D



Oh, believe me, depending on where your serving "airing differences" can land you in real trouble! (Honestly, the only problem I've ever encountered with airing my differences came from senior members in command positions without management experience, i.e. dealing and leading people as a profession, etc)




What has helped me is by developing friendships within CAP those senior members with more experience than I had, that I could ask questions in a polite and professional manner.
MAJ DAVID J. D'ARCY, CAP (Ret) 8 Apr 2018 (1974-1982, 1988-2018)
A former member of:
West Michigan Group MI-703,
Hudsonville Cadet Sqdron MI-135 (name changed to Park Township, Al Johnson Cadet Sqdrn)
Lakeshore Cadet Sqdrn MI-119
Van Dyke Cadet Sqdrn, MI-117
Phoenix Cadet Sqdrn MI-GLR-MI-065 (inactive)
Novi Sixgate Cadet Sqdrn (inactive), MI-068
Inkster Cherry Hill Cadet Sqdrn MI-GLR-MI-283 (inactive)

Color Guard Rifleman

For the CAP retirement benefits, must a senior member be in CAP for at least 20 years like the military?
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

SarDragon

Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 01:09:07 PM
For the CAP retirement benefits, must a senior member be in CAP for at least 20 years like the military?

Define "CAP retirement benefits".
Twenty years is the magic number to retire.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Color Guard Rifleman

Quote from: SarDragon on January 10, 2019, 02:17:22 PM
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 01:09:07 PM
For the CAP retirement benefits, must a senior member be in CAP for at least 20 years like the military?

Define "CAP retirement benefits".
Twenty years is the magic number to retire.

I not benefit, just the minimum number of years to get the retirement packet with all of your CAP information such as your personnel record
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

SarDragon

That's the first I have ever heard of a "retirement packet". Where did that bit of info come from?

Sent using Tapatalk

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Color Guard Rifleman

Quote from: SarDragon on January 10, 2019, 04:46:43 PM
That's the first I have ever heard of a "retirement packet". Where did that bit of info come from?

Sent using Tapatalk

Quote from: Simplex on November 27, 2018, 07:38:39 PM
It's been quite a ride. Like anything else in life, good times and bad times, but mostly good. Met lots of great people a few who'll be friends for life. This forum has been great, I've learned a lot. Thanks to those who participate especially those 'old salts' who chime in with a wealth of knowledge. You can imagine my excitement when my retirement packet arrived from NHQ.  I opened it and first to be pulled out was the very nice certificate, name, grade and dates of service all signed by the CAP Commander. Beside the fact that there was a crease running across the certificate at a 45 degree angle it was impressive. It looked liked it slipped off a desk and someone grabbed it and bent it in half was a minor thing. Next came the retirement letter, addressed to me with name rank and mailing address, but it was dated a year ago 31 Oct 2017 and the salutation began Dear Colonel (I'm/was a Major) Somebody Else, thank you for your years of service etc. Next the copy of my CAPF 2A all stamped with date/time received with the CAP Seal down in the lower left hand corner. But the stamp was over inked and dribbled across the bottom of the form. The wife said 'send it back', no I said,  I'll keep it as is. That about sums it up. So long everyone, keep your airspeed up. Simplex, out!

It came from here.
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

Simplex

Yes, 20 years is the minimum, however, it does not have to be all inclusive. There can be a break in service so as long as it adds up to 20...you're in!

Hope this helps.

Simplex

PostScript: Cadet time does not count, just Senior time.

Color Guard Rifleman

Quote from: Simplex on January 10, 2019, 05:42:34 PM
PostScript: Cadet time does not count, just Senior time.

Good to know. What usually comes in the "retirement packet"?
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

Eclipse

Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

"That Others May Zoom"

Color Guard Rifleman

Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

But do you get your personnel file?
C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
2019 MIWG Encampment Squadron 2 First Sergeant
Recruiting NCO

See the source image

SarDragon

IIRC. the record remains the property of CAP, but you are free to make a copy before you retire. I maintain my own copy of my record, anyway.

Sent using Tapatalk

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse

Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 07:36:44 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

But do you get your personnel file?

No, as the unit is required to keep it for five years, however you ciould ask for a copy.

As more and more is moved into eServices and units are going paperless, in a lot of cases it's just .pdfs.


"That Others May Zoom"

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 07:36:44 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

But do you get your personnel file?

Just as an FYI---You can ask for copies of your personnel record at any time, as a cadet or senior. So if there's ever anything you want to look at in your file, just ask the appropriate person at your unit. Be advised that they might not have the time to just drop whatever they're doing to go get it for you or supervise you while you take a look, as well as the time to copy it for you if it's paper. But you shouldn't be denied the ability to look at some point (i.e., "No, you can't see it" versus "Sure, but can we do it next week?").

Your record is not private from your eyes. It's your record.

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:47:38 PM
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on January 10, 2019, 07:36:44 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 10, 2019, 07:15:14 PM
Officially you just get a retirement certificate, but if you're still active in the program when you step back,
a lot of wings will give you a plaque, etc., especially if you're able to come to an annual banquet, or similar.

But do you get your personnel file?

No, as the unit is required to keep it for five years, however you ciould ask for a copy.

As more and more is moved into eServices and units are going paperless, in a lot of cases it's just .pdfs.

I'm not sure its precisely a requirement to maintain the record if the member has left through retirement or expiration AND requested it.

(think of a retirement like a transfer in terms of the unit's *need* to maintain the record. You don't keep a copy of a transferring member's file for five years, do you?)

If you have it, you're required to maintain it for x time.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.



Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spaceman3750

Quote from: NIN on January 11, 2019, 09:10:50 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.

A lot of SUI suffering could be alleviated with a widget to upload files to a member's record in member search, much like the widget in ops qual. Think about it - thousands of volunteer hours (not to mention stress and frustration) eliminated with a couple hundred lines of code.

It's 2019. Can we PLEASE do this?

Shuman 14

Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

Does CAP keep any type of historical record of it's membership indefinitely?

So if Little Johnny is doing historical research project for School on Great Uncle Stanley, who served in CAP during WWII and the Cold War, would CAP be able to provide any information about Stanley for the young Lad?
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Eclipse

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 11, 2019, 11:31:03 PM
Quote from: NIN on January 11, 2019, 09:10:50 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
So the raises an interesting philosophical question - retired and terminated members do not appear anywhere easily accessible
to the average user or inspector, so once off the "books", who would know you're supposed to have a dead file on hand for 5 years, anyway?

On transfers I agree, no copy - send it and forget it. 

Unnecessary copies open up PERSEC issues, although these days there really shouldn't be any PERSEC info in them.

Well, one could assume they exist. :)

I think the idea is "member leaves or retires from CAP. Screen these files to inactive and &  hold for 5 years and then destroy."  IOW: no more than 5 years.  And thats a convenience for the member, not the unit.

If I was an inspector and came in and saw no inactive files, I'd be suspicious.

A lot of SUI suffering could be alleviated with a widget to upload files to a member's record in member search, much like the widget in ops qual. Think about it - thousands of volunteer hours (not to mention stress and frustration) eliminated with a couple hundred lines of code.

It's 2019. Can we PLEASE do this?

There should no longer be a requirement to keep local files at the unit level, there is nothing
important that isn't tracked in eServices.

"That Others May Zoom"

SarDragon

Quote from: shuman14 on January 11, 2019, 11:40:48 PM
Does CAP keep any type of historical record of it's its membership indefinitely?

So if Little Johnny is doing historical research project for School on Great Uncle Stanley, who served in CAP during WWII and the Cold War, would CAP be able to provide any information about Stanley for the young Lad?

Apparently, olde paper records do exist, but they are supposedly squirreled away somewhere, inaccessible to members. I would love to get loose with them for a week or two to do research.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Lord of the North

Posted by: Eclipse
« on: 11 Jan 2019 at 12:08:04 AM »

[/quote]
There should no longer be a requirement to keep local files at the unit level, there is nothing
important that isn't tracked in eServices.
[/quote]

I continue to hear that local personnel files are no longer needed, nor required.  Actually CAPR 39-2 (dated 9 January 2017) is clear on the requirement.  Please refer to paragraph 1.7 of that regulation as shown in the portions of that paragraph provided below:

"Active Records. The member's unit of assignment maintains personnel records. Personnel files maintained locally may be traditional paper files or electronic files created at the unit."

Later, in that paragraph; "At this time, the eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.  Those items recorded in eServices are not required to be entered in the local personnel file. Any items not recorded in eServices or additional information pertaining to the member's service and performance that should be retained should be made a part of the local personnel records."
Currently there is no way to award Activity and Service ribbons (see paragraph 19 of CAPR 39-3) in e-services.  You MAY enter previously awarded Activity and Service ribbons into e-services AFTER they have been approved in accordance with CAPR 39-3, but the local personnel file should have the approved award (usually a CAPF 2a) documentation for the individual(s) who were recipients of the award.  The following information was provided by NHQ when the ability to enter activity and service ribbons into eServices was implemented"

"Members may now upload previously approved activity and service ribbons through the "My Account" section of eServices.  Simply click on the "Service Ribbons" tab on the left side of the screen to add previously authorized ribbons. The member can then enter the date and the ribbon earned.  Ribbon submissions will be sent to the unit commander for validation prior to displaying in the individual's member record.  Validation authority is also available to the Deputy Commander and Chief of Staff.
The ability to award new activity and service ribbons is not a part of this module but is in the plan for future development."


To me, after review of the above information a couple of points are clear.
1.   Local personnel files ARE required by regulation (CAPR 39-2, para 1.7).
2.   The eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.
3.   The local personnel files may be either paper or electronic files.
4.   The entry of the award of Activity and Service ribbons into eServices can be accomplished ONLY AFTER the award(s) have been approved in accordance
        with CAPR 39-3, which was stated in the implementation instructed provided when the ability was created in eServices.

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Lord of the North on January 12, 2019, 08:13:12 AM

To me, after review of the above information a couple of points are clear.
1.Local personnel files ARE required by regulation (CAPR 39-2, para 1.7).
2.The eServices online record cannot be used as the only personnel file since all information concerning the member is not currently tracked online.
3.The local personnel files may be either paper or electronic files.
4.The entry of the award of Activity and Service ribbons into eServices can be accomplished ONLY AFTER the award(s) have been approved in accordance
        with CAPR 39-3, which was stated in the implementation instructed provided when the ability was created in eServices.

He wasn't saying they're not currently required, he's saying they shouldn't be required.

I can see a need to keep some extra records - PAs for finds, etc. but that shouldn't require the unit to have a huge regulatory burden. Just upload the files to eServices.

On the point of service and activity ribbons, that's another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

We talk a lot about how valuable our volunteers are, and yet we continue to waste their time on personnel files, record retention, and paperwork for encampment ribbons when the tools to manage all of this centrally and automatically have existed for 20 years everywhere but our organization.

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 12, 2019, 07:37:03 PM

On the point of service and activity ribbons, that's another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

We talk a lot about how valuable our volunteers are, and yet we continue to waste their time on personnel files, record retention, and paperwork for encampment ribbons when the tools to manage all of this centrally and automatically have existed for 20 years everywhere but our organization.

This.

NIN

Not to mention a lot of storage.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 12, 2019, 09:51:04 PM
On the point of service and activity ribbons, that's another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

Encampment and NCSA ribbons are probably the perfect example of this.

When the CC clicks "submit", credit posts immediately.  Member wears it or adds an attachment.

Yet CC's all over the place still want to do a 2a.

"That Others May Zoom"

PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on January 13, 2019, 01:46:03 AM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 12, 2019, 09:51:04 PM
On the point of service and activity ribbons, that's another great place to streamline. You went to the activity, it gets listed in eServices, you wear the ribbon. Why mess around with more paperwork than there needs to be?

Encampment and NCSA ribbons are probably the perfect example of this.

When the CC clicks "submit", credit posts immediately.  Member wears it or adds an attachment.

Yet CC's all over the place still want to do a 2a.

Because they've been told over and over that you must have a "source document" for all awards and decorations.

RiverAux

Personnel files stores electronically at the unit level would scare me to death without some very specific requirements for use of that system.  For example, requiring that multiple people have full access at all times rather than it being at the CC's house on his 15 year old computer. 

Eclipse

Anywhere but the cloud with Wing having control should be verboten.

But really? It doesn't matter. Most members never look at them, and if every beat up plastic file carrier at every unit disappeared right now, it would have little effect on anything except shortening some SUIs.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

Oh, I've never thought that the ribbons, etc. are really all that motivating to CAP members, but I think most would be quite upset if their records just wen poof.. 

Eclipse

But that's just it - they won't any more.

New stuff is in there, historic stuff should be, and if it's not it's on the member.

Enter it, scan it /  shred it / give to member, move on.

"That Others May Zoom"

Devil Doc

Not sure about yall, but out f my 10 CAP Ribbons, only 4 are shown in EServices. I have some that I submitted myself, but out of the ones that NHQ has submitted.... it only shows 4. So I think there still needs to be a paper record since eServices is not perfect.
Captain Brandon P. Smith CAP
Former HM3, U.S NAVY
Too many Awards, Achievments and Qualifications to list.


Eclipse

You need to go in and enter historical awards.

"That Others May Zoom"

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Eclipse on January 14, 2019, 05:08:36 AM
You need to go in and enter historical awards.

So...for historical awards, can those only be entered by the member (not on their behalf)?

If that's the case, which I thought it was, that seems to be a pain---as some people are so horrible at tracking their own items, and some units were historically bad at tracking for them through personnel record-keeping.

Eclipse

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 14, 2019, 03:25:35 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 14, 2019, 05:08:36 AM
You need to go in and enter historical awards.

So...for historical awards, can those only be entered by the member (not on their behalf)?

If that's the case, which I thought it was, that seems to be a pain---as some people are so horrible at tracking their own items, and some units were historically bad at tracking for them through personnel record-keeping.

That's my understanding last time I looked into it.  Member enters and provides substantiation, higher HQ approves.
In some cases all they had was the pic of a cert, or even them getting the award in a shake and take.

No argument about historically poor record keeping, but these days there no excuse, and if it's not important enough to
the member to do it, then it's not important enough for anyone else to care, either.

The average member is going to have a handfull of things to enter, and some might not ever be provable,
but some is better then none, and if they can't be substantiated anyway, there's still nothing in the file.

A unit looking to move to paperless needs to push members to be doing this, and frankly this is what Personnel Officers (or whoever is OPR)  should
be doing during meetings.

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it end.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on January 14, 2019, 04:17:57 PM
Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it ends.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.

Simplex

There is life after CAP! I completely understand about the forget (if not forgive) the bad. Fortunately mine were few and far between, but it all still lingers.  Enjoy, thank you for the years you've put in, and best of luck in the future.

Chappie

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on January 14, 2019, 04:17:57 PM
Just checked, and my account says "Your membership has expired. However, you are not eligible to renew on-line. Please call Membership Services toll free at (877)227-9142 for further information and assistance."

I contemplated what to do once I resigned my command and Patron-ed myself. Gave it a good 5 months or so.

In the end, I chose to keep the good memories, forget (if not forgive) the bad, keep my friends close, and break all connection with the organization. Not quite 16 years, a good chunk of that as a cadet, but so it end.

The closet is a lot more airy, my time is more productive and stress free, and now I can simply move on.

Same message in eServices — same experience/feelings (only I chose not to go "patron".  Once decided to retire, no membership).
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

MSG Mac

I retired about 10 years ago, when I tried to rejoin, I was told that I needed my Wing Commander's permission to rejoin.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

Simplex

Did that come from NHQ or your Wing?  Can't say that I'd heard that before, good luck.

SarDragon

From CAPR 39-2:
Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse

Quote from: MSG Mac on January 16, 2019, 04:15:50 AM
I retired about 10 years ago, when I tried to rejoin, I was told that I needed my Wing Commander's permission to rejoin.

Actually you need the National CC's approval.
CAPR 39-2, Page 20
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R039_002_A74FDA9552C2D.pdf
"4.3.2. Return to Active Status. Retired members may reapply for active membership with the
approval of the National Commander.
The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same
grade held while in retirement status. Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).
The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE
STATUS". Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are
submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM. National
Headquarters will obtain the National Commander's approval prior to processing. In order to
reinstate the member at the last grade held as an active member, a copy of the CAPF 2A placing
the member in retired status (or a copy of the retirement certificate) will be attached to the CAPF
12 and forwarded to National Headquarters"



"That Others May Zoom"

Lord of the North

From CAPR 39-2
4.3.2. Return to Active Status.  Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.  The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same grade held while in retirement status.  Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).  The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE STATUS".  Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM.  National Headquarters will obtain the National Commander's approval prior to processing. 

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Lord of the North on January 16, 2019, 06:28:52 AM
From CAPR 39-2
4.3.2. Return to Active Status.  Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.  The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same grade held while in retirement status.  Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).  The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE STATUS".  Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM.  National Headquarters will obtain the National Commander's approval prior to processing.

And...more nonsense is revealed.

The applicant for reinstatement must supply proof of retirement in order for CAP to believe that s/he is retired.

Doesn't NHQ already know that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

NIN

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 16, 2019, 10:06:40 PM
Quote from: Lord of the North on January 16, 2019, 06:28:52 AM
From CAPR 39-2
4.3.2. Return to Active Status.  Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.  The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same grade held while in retirement status.  Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).  The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE STATUS".  Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM.  National Headquarters will obtain the National Commander's approval prior to processing.

And...more nonsense is revealed.

The applicant for reinstatement must supply proof of retirement in order for CAP to believe that s/he is retired.

Doesn't NHQ already know that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For members who have retired since the advent of electronic records, yes, they have that.

It is entirely possible however that someone could return to active status who retired prior to that level of record-keeping. In that case, chances are no record exists of that member's grade at retirement.

BTW, you can thank General Carr for signing off on my return. Muuhahaha! :)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Chappie

Well...it is "official".  I received the signed Form 2A, a letter from Gen Smith, and a "suitable for framing" Certificate of Retirement in this morning's mail. 
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

NIN

Quote from: Chappie on January 19, 2019, 07:18:30 PM
Well...it is "official".  I received the signed Form 2A, a letter from Gen Smith, and a "suitable for framing" Certificate of Retirement in this morning's mail.

It had your name on it, right?

8)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Chappie

That it did and spelled correctly :)
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Simplex

Congrats Chappie, glad everything worked out well for you. Hope you'll continue to hang out on CapTalk we can all benefit from your wit and wisdom. Simplex, out!

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 16, 2019, 10:06:40 PM
Quote from: Lord of the North on January 16, 2019, 06:28:52 AM
From CAPR 39-2
4.3.2. Return to Active Status.  Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander.  The grade upon rejoining as an active member is the same grade held while in retirement status.  Complete CAPF 12 and fingerprint card (FD Form 258).  The application will be annotated across the top "RETIRED MEMBER RETURNING TO ACTIVE STATUS".  Upon approval by the unit commander, the application and fingerprint card are submitted, along with ACTIVE member dues, to National Headquarters/DPM.  National Headquarters will obtain the National Commander's approval prior to processing.

And...more nonsense is revealed.

The applicant for reinstatement must supply proof of retirement in order for CAP to believe that s/he is retired.

Doesn't NHQ already know that?


I think the bigger question is:
"Why does this need National Commander approval?"

The National Commander doesn't approve applications at the squadron level... I mean, this seems like administrative/bureaucratic horse hockey.