FAA WINGS Program

[Flying Pig]

If you arent doing it......Do it!

CAP is heavily recognized in the FAA Wings training.  For example, a Form 5 qualifies you for the Advanced Level, they recognize the Check Pilot Course as well.  Also, lots of good online training as well.

www.faasafety.gov

[bosshawk]

Rob: I agree that every CAP pilot should do the Wings program.  I have completed up through level 13 under the old program.

Now, the FAA screwed the pooch and made the program computer intensive and most of us old phyarts simply don't have the skills to wade through the nonsense needed to get through the program.  I even had an FAA inspector sit down at my computer and show me how to conquer the mess and I still am at sea about the whole deal.

Really great that they give us all kinds of credit for a Form 5 and the Check Pilot School, both of which I have.  Now, if we could just figure out how to deal with the rest of the requirements.

Oh well, I am approaching the point in my life when I may just sell my plane and sit on the porch and watch the deer play in my front yard.

[Flying Pig]

SWEET....I just finished the Basic Phase.  Doing my CAP recurrent Form 5 here in the next week or so will qualify me for the Advanced level.

[airdale]

... us old phyarts simply don't have the skills to wade through the nonsense needed to get through the program ...

Don't sell yourself short.  I have the skills (computer designer, systems and web programmer, hold three or four patents).  The problem is that the wings program is baroquely complex and the web site implementation is terrible.  I have bumbled through getting my Form 5 data in there and getting my card punched for various seminars this year.  I will not, however,  be using the web site or participating in the program beyond one annual CAPF 5 ordeal.

My guess is that national Wings participation has plummeted since this mess went on-line.  THe FAA is probably hoping that new CAP participation will camouflage this.

[Flying Pig]

Im not sure what you guys are talking about?  I do the flight portions and have the instructor validate the entry, then I do the online courses.   Done.

For a Form 5, all you need to do is have the instructor validate on the web site and you automatically complete the Advanced level.

[bosshawk]

Rob: of course you don't have an issue: you are from the generation who was born with a computer in your lap.  I remember when the UNIAC was invented.

[Nomex Maximus]

Could someone point me to the CAP specific stuff on the FAAST site? I am having trouble finding it... I remember seeing it a while back, but can't find it now...

[airdale]

Im not sure what you guys are talking about?

This is what we are talking about:

Could someone point me to the CAP specific stuff on the FAAST site? I am having trouble finding it... I remember seeing it a while back, but can't find it now...

You might try calling the FAASTeam guy at your local FSDO.  They seem to spend quite a bit of 1 on 1 time trying to help people figure out the site.

[bosshawk]

I wish that I could help you, but I can't.  I even had the FAAST guy from my local FSDO sit at my computer(at my house) and try to demonstrate how to deal with the WINGS thing.  He even got me credit for the CAP Form 5 and I could never in a million years go back to that point.  I even complained to the Region FAAST guy and he made some comment to the point that, yes, they figured that they would lose the older guys(me), but they figured that the younger, computer-literate generation would more than make up for the numbers.  Now, that is real terrific reasoning. 

I haven't seen any numbers, but it seems to me that the FAA reasoning is not coming true.

I was an Aviation Safety Counselor, but I dropped out when the FAAST program was instituted, because the computer stuff is such a mess.  I would have had to become a computer whiz instead of being a safety counselor.

[Flying Pig]

The CAP stuff is in the flight sections for the different levels. For example, a CAP form 5 automatically qualifies you for the flight portion of the Advanced level as long as you do the required online portions as well.  Going to the Check Pilot Course quals you for the Master level.  As long as it is done during the year you are doing the WINGS program.  So you cant have done a form 5 in 07 and try to have it count for the WINGS program you are doing in 08.

Dont worry Paul....we'll get through this

[Captain Morgan]

Something nobody has mentioned ...  If you enter a Form 91 ride and take one on-line course, it will qualify you for Advanced Level Wings.

[rgr84]

Go to:  1)  My Wings
            2) Activity Search and/or validation
            3) Show additional search options
            4) Type in CAP and hit return.

The only thing easier than the new wings program is E-services!!!

[airdale]

The only thing easier than the new wings program is E-services!!!

Oh, I dunno.  WMIRS is right there in the running.  I would suspect that the same government-contractor idiots who designed E-Services and WMIRS also designed the FAA web site, but the FAA idiots use more graphics.

Another difference is that the CAP web sites deliver confusion and poor performance while dealing with something that is relatively simple.  The FAA guys at least have the excuse that the underlying concept is a mess.

[Flying Pig]

The only thing though, you have to make sure you do it with a CFI, because they have to make a log book entry.  If you do it with a non-CFI mentor pilot, or  a non- CFI CAP Check Pilot it wont count.


I edited my post.....I didnt notice there was a Page 2 where it listed Form 91. I thought only the F5 counted.  Cool.

National Check Pilot Course counts as well.

[rgr84]

Form 91 counts for 5 wing credit hours.  1 each FCA, 2 each FEA, 2 each KEA.  All you need at this point is the "Art of Aeronautical Decision Making" which should take about 45 minutes and you have your Wings level completed.  As far as approval goes.  Any CFI registered with the wings program  can approve it if you can show them documentation, (ie Form 91 signed off). 

The new wings program specifically allows the CFI to approve credit, even if he/she did not do the training.  The CFI just has to feel comfortable with the documentation submitted by the pilot to approve credit.   

[Flying Pig]

Form 91 counts for 5 wing credit hours.  1 each FCA, 2 each FEA, 2 each KEA.  All you need at this point is the "Art of Aeronautical Decision Making" which should take about 45 minutes and you have your Wings level completed.  As far as approval goes.  Any CFI registered with the wings program  can approve it if you can show them documentation, (ie Form 91 signed off). 

The new wings program specifically allows the CFI to approve credit, even if he/she did not do the training.  The CFI just has to feel comfortable with the documentation submitted by the pilot to approve credit.   

Thats what I do.  The CFI I fly with at work isnt registered on the WINGS site, and doesnt ever plan on registering.  So when I do training, he signs my logbook like normal, then I take it to a CFI I know who is registered, and he validates it based on my log book entries.

[rgr84]

CAP has a lot of Mission Pilot Check Pilots that are not CFI's.  If they sign off on the Form 91, it will not count for wings credit.  The Mission Check Pilot must be a CFI for wings credit.

edited post.  Made a mistake regarding Form 91 approval.

[rgr84]

You can even use the FRO list as documentation. 

We send our completed paperwork to our Stan/Eval guy who is a CFI and he is happy to sign off on the wings credit.  He updates the FRO for our wing so he is very comfortable that the documentation is correct.

[Flying Pig]

CAP has a lot of Mission Pilot Check Pilots that are not CFI's.  If they sign off on the Form 91, take it to a CFI for approval for wings credit. 

Hmmmm.....Are you sure?   I was told for any instruction to count, the F5, F91, whatever, had to be done by a CFI?  Because the CAP Mountain Fury Course counts as well, and I think only one of the 4 mentor pilots I had was an actual CFI.   

I shall inquire at the FSDO tomorrow if we dont know.

[rgr84]

I stand corrected.

The Form 91 requires that the Mission Pilot Check Pilot be a CFI to receive wings credit. 

The CAP-Mountain Fury course is a ground school that does not require a CFI for credit.  The flying portion is credited under Form 91 which requires a CFI.