Fire Extinguishers

[scooter]

On the Member page, Hot News section, there is a new requirement for a monthly Aircraft Fire Extinguisher Inspection. It comes from CAP NHQ/DOV. The last item is to check the Hazard Materials Identification System (HMIS) label is visible. They  give no information on where to find the label, which one to use, or what numbers to use on the label. Anyone have any experience with these labels and know what we should use and the numbers to enter on the label? Someone at DOV must have done the research but is keeping it to themselves. 

[Brad]

Go by your local fire department. Under NFPA they are highly encouraged, and if an OSHA state they are required, to post a Right-To-Know box with a list of all their MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) somewhere in the station. This will include the NFPA label // Fire Diamond // HMIS number values. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to examine the fire extinguisher and provide you a copy of the appropriate sheet, or at least where you can get one. They also should have some blank labels you can get.

Most of them are H=1 (Blue) F=0 (Red) R=0 (Yellow)

Edit: Found this:  http://www.swiftfireprotection.com/Catalog/Fire_Extinguishers/MSDS/msds.html  Simply pick your brand name and the type. (you did take the course on e-services right?)

[scooter]

Yep took the CAP course. It did not cover any of this stuff. Thanks for the info. Cleared up some of the mystery for me.

[Brad]

I meant that with regards to identifying the type, i.e. dry chem, CO2, etc.

[SARDOC]

Go by your local fire department. Under NFPA they are highly encouraged, and if an OSHA state they are required, to post a Right-To-Know box with a list of all their MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) somewhere in the station. This will include the NFPA label // Fire Diamond // HMIS number values. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to examine the fire extinguisher and provide you a copy of the appropriate sheet, or at least where you can get one. They also should have some blank labels you can get.

Most of them are H=1 (Blue) F=0 (Red) R=0 (Yellow)

Edit: Found this:  http://www.swiftfireprotection.com/Catalog/Fire_Extinguishers/MSDS/msds.html  Simply pick your brand name and the type. (you did take the course on e-services right?)

Their MSDS's won't necessarily match the extinguisher that you have.  They are only required to maintain the ones they have in their work space.

The Hazardous Materials Identification System (HMIS) label is the Blue/Red/Yellow/White Label provided by the manufacturer.  Google it and you'll find a ton of different Images/styles.   As far as Determining the type (Dry Chem, Dry Powder, CO2, etc..)experienced people can look at them and tell you right off the bat, however if you are not sure...read the label it should be listed on there.  If it's not listed get a new extinguisher.

Check with your aircraft Maintenance person to see what extinguisher you should you.  Most of the ones I have seen on an Airplane or boats tend to be BC extinguishers...Sometimes ABC extinguishers.

[scooter]

Thanks guys. I need to go check but think most of our aircraft extinguishers are some type of Halon.

[SARDOC]

Thanks guys. I need to go check but think most of our aircraft extinguishers are some type of Halon.

They should not be HALON.  HALON displaces Oxygen and would be a danger to the occupants of such a small space as an airplane.

[PHall]

Thanks guys. I need to go check but think most of our aircraft extinguishers are some type of Halon.

They should not be HALON.  HALON displaces Oxygen and would be a danger to the occupants of such a small space as an airplane.

They're popular because they're small and light and they work on Class B & C fires.

[SARDOC]

Most of the time when Halon is used is not to protect the occupants but to protect the equipment because they don't create the corrosive or cleanup problems like you would have with a Dry Powder or Dry Chemical.  They work great on B and C Fires...The only caution is using them in a confined space.  The Occupants can quickly become Hypoxic is someone is overzealous with the use of the extinguisher especially in a small cabin space like a C172 or 182 which probably isn't great for flight.

[EMT-83]

With the small extinguishers used in our aircraft, I can't see where that would be a problem.

After a fire is extinguished, I would imagine that the first order of business would be venting the cabin.

[PHall]

With the small extinguishers used in our aircraft, I can't see where that would be a problem.

After a fire is extinguished, I would imagine that the first order of business would be venting the cabin.

Followed shortly thereafter with "land the bloody airplane!"

[Eclipse]

On the Member page, Hot News section, there is a new requirement for a monthly Aircraft Fire Extinguisher Inspection. It comes from CAP NHQ/DOV. The last item is to check the Hazard Materials Identification System (HMIS) label is visible. They  give no information on where to find the label, which one to use, or what numbers to use on the label. Anyone have any experience with these labels and know what we should use and the numbers to enter on the label? Someone at DOV must have done the research but is keeping it to themselves.

The actual requirments for the monthly test are:
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/AIRCRAFT_PORTABLE_FIRE_EXTINGUISHER_5FC227DF30B8C.pdf

Procedures: Periodic inspection of the aircraft fire extinguishers shall include a check
of at least the following items:
(a) Located in designated place and properly secured in the mounting bracket.
(b) No obstruction to access or visibility.
(c) Operating instructions on nameplate legible and facing outward.
(d) Safety seals and tamper indicators not broken or missing.
(e) Fullness determined by lifting or "hefting".
(f) Examine for obvious physical damage, corrosion, leakage, or clogged nozzle.
(g) Pressure gage reading or indicator in the operable range or position.
(h) Hazardous Materials Identification System (HMIS) label in place.

Note it says "in place", not "visible", so if the thing is on the back side when mounted or stored, it's not a problem.
That label isn't going to mean much to the average member, they are just going to point and spray whatever's
in the handiest can.

As to Halon, it was prohibited for manufacturer in 1998 except for aviation fire suppression, and it is still recommended
by the FAA.  When used it doesn't require the aircraft to be taken out of service because of corrosion risk from a fire suppression
chemical.

The NFPA says dry chemical should not be used any time aluminum corrosion is a problem.

http://www.h3raviation.com/support_faq_2.htm

[Garibaldi]

Thanks guys. I need to go check but think most of our aircraft extinguishers are some type of Halon.

They should not be HALON.  HALON displaces Oxygen and would be a danger to the occupants of such a small space as an airplane.

At one of my jobs, the server room had a Halon extinguishing system. I was told that in the event of a fire, if someone was 4 steps from the door they wouldn't make it out in time.

[Eclipse]

At one of my jobs, the server room had a Halon extinguishing system. I was told that in the event of a fire, if someone was 4 steps from the door they wouldn't make it out in time.

I had a couple of those as well.  Not sure if they were apocryphal or not, but the activation buttons were always right by the door and they'd
always instruct you to hit it on the way out.

[Garibaldi]

At one of my jobs, the server room had a Halon extinguishing system. I was told that in the event of a fire, if someone was 4 steps from the door they wouldn't make it out in time.

I had a couple of those as well.  Not sure if they were apocryphal or not, but the activation buttons were always right by the door and they'd
always instruct you to hit it on the way out.

I think those were set to go off if smoke was detected.

[SARDOC]

At one of my jobs, the server room had a Halon extinguishing system. I was told that in the event of a fire, if someone was 4 steps from the door they wouldn't make it out in time.

I had a couple of those as well.  Not sure if they were apocryphal or not, but the activation buttons were always right by the door and they'd
always instruct you to hit it on the way out.

I think those were set to go off if smoke was detected.

There are Four Different types of HALON that are typically used in Fire Suppression.  The Most Common is the Bromotrifluoromethane.  They all have slightly different properties. 

The small cabin isn't airtight but the recommendation for use in Aircraft is to help protect the equipment and prevent additional visible disruption in addition to the Smoke that can be caused by dry powder/dry chemical dust flying around the cabin.  When Fighting the Fire the pilot should focus on the safety of flight.  Use Halon Extinguisher with caution because the oxygen displacement can be instantly profound.  Venting the Cabin should be a priority after the fire is extinguished. 

As far a Computer Rooms that use HALON they typically have multiple methods of Activation.  The Push button by the door should be activated by the last person on the way out of the room before sealing the door.  They also have a Heat rate of rise detector or a photo electric ionization smoke detector depending on the needs of the space.  Halon works by breaking the fire cycle by displacing oxygen from the fire formula.  When one of the detectors activate that usually activates the Fire Alarm warning the Occupants to evacuate the space...the deluge nozzles usually deploy the halon after a defined time period of 30 to 60 seconds depending on the estimated evacuation time of the space and the Automatic doors close.  Occupants in this space can still travel as far as they can hold their breath, evacuation becomes more difficult because with the loss of oxygen your vision diminishes because your eye need oxygen in order to see well. (ie. Opening your eyes under water)  It's Complicated...The Risk/Benefit analysis determines which system you should select.

Ultimately my point is Fire in Flight is dangerous and you should be trained and familiar with the extinguishing agent of your choice as well as the complications that can arise.  Sometimes it can be better to let some things burn.  Make sure you brief duties and responsibilities of each crewmember in the event of a fire.

[Brad]

Sure it's not a CO2 extinguisher instead of a Halon system? Those are being phased out, at least the old Halon chemical, and as SARDOC said they usually are for large computer rooms to protect the equipment.

Halon extinguisher:


CO2 extinguisher:

[starshippe]

   i too worked in a computer control room with halon fire protection.
   i have a story that i still laugh about today, 35 years later. u may find it humorous, u may not.

   at one time the system developed a pesky intermittent alarm, and one of the security guards was working on the phone with the security company, trying to isolate it.
   there was a fair amount of switch flippin and button pushin, and the laws of averages took their toll. he accidentally activated the halon system.
   he had no trouble making the half dozen steps to the door, nor did he have any trouble making it down the circular stairway.
   when he got to the bottom of the stairway, he still had the phone handset in his hand. 

[RogueLeader]

When I was on Active Duty, working in the Brigade Safety Office, we had a Humvee with a Halon system that had an accidental discharge (went off on it's own.)  All 4 Soldiers made it alive, but were in critical condition for some time.  I forget how long.

I'd rather not have it around me.

[JeffDG]

   i too worked in a computer control room with halon fire protection.
   i have a story that i still laugh about today, 35 years later. u may find it humorous, u may not.

   at one time the system developed a pesky intermittent alarm, and one of the security guards was working on the phone with the security company, trying to isolate it.
   there was a fair amount of switch flippin and button pushin, and the laws of averages took their toll. he accidentally activated the halon system.
   he had no trouble making the half dozen steps to the door, nor did he have any trouble making it down the circular stairway.
   when he got to the bottom of the stairway, he still had the phone handset in his hand.

Had that happen at one server room about 10 yards from my office...it was an FM-200 system, not halon, but they were troubleshooting something and activated it...it was a god-awful loud alarm, and when it discharged, it destroyed a ton of ceiling and floor tiles.

I can't remember how much it costs to recharge it (it's all a closed, pressurized system), but it was well into the mid 5-figures.  Since the company that maintains it made the error, they had to eat that cost...ouch.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

My daughter works for the Amerex Corporation building various fire extinguishers.  Working with her Some years back I organized a group buy of aviation fire extinguishers for the aero club and another aviation group.  At that time she said Halon was being replaced by Halotron.  Halotron is not as toxic as Halon nor is it cancer causing, and for efficiency it was almost as good as Halon, and it had the "FAA Seal of approval". 

[Eclipse]

A million years ago, while working as an electrician, we were doing demo work at a closed restaurant in a local mall.  The chemical fire suppression systems
that are mounted over the cooking areas in restaurants have their activation cords running through standard EMT pipe, which we were there to remove.

We asked around, everyone said the system has been deactivated. 

It wasn't.  My boss gave a good smack to the pipes and down came the powder.  I was smart enough to be standing back, he was covered
with it.

To this day I can still see the cloud of chemical creeping out over the construction walls into the mall.

[scooter]

So far I have checked 3 or our airplanes. One has Halatron and two have Halon 1211 as agents. These all came from CAP so they must think the Halon 1211 is OK. One of the aircraft is a new T182T.

[Texas Raiders]

I know it's been a while since the last comment on this one, but our squadron just conducted training on aircraft fires and there was discussion on the type of fire extinguisher.  I'm a career firefighter and this peaked my curiosity, which led me to do a bit of research. Here's some more info for everyone to consider. 

The following information comes from the hazards identification sections of MSDS provided by Kidde and DuPont for Halotron-1 and FE-36 (Halon alternate), and dry chemical agents.

Kidde Halotron-1-2. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Main Hazards
Non Flammable Gas
Routes of Entry
Eye contact - Inhalation - Skin contact
Carcinogenic Status
Not considered carcinogenic by NTP, IARC, and OSHA.
Target Organs
Respiratory System - Eye - Cardiovascular System - Central Nervous System - Liver
Health Effects - Eyes
Direct contact with the cold liquid or gas may cause irritation with discomfort, tearing or blurring of
vision.
Health Effects - Skin
Direct contact with the cold gas or liquid can cause cooling of exposed tissues.
Health Effects - Ingestion
Ingestion is not likely to occur during normal handling and use.
Health Effects - Inhalation
Short term exposure to vapor at high concentrations have the following effects: light headedness -
dizziness - difficulty with breathing - drowsiness - nausea - mental confusion – irregular pulse -
palpitations - loss of consciousness and death. Chronic overexposure may adversely affect the liver.
Individuals with pre-existing disease of the central nervous system, cardiovascular system and liver will
be at increased risk

DuPont FE-36-SECTION 2. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Emergency Overview
Misuse or intentional inhalation abuse may lead to death without warning.
Vapours are heavier than air and can cause suffocation by reducing oxygen available for breathing.
Rapid evaporation of the liquid may cause frostbite.
Potential Health Effects
Skin : Contact with liquid or refrigerated gas can cause cold burns and frostbite.
Eyes : Contact with liquid or refrigerated gas can cause cold burns and frostbite.
Inhalation : Misuse or intentional inhalation abuse may cause death without warning
symptoms, due to cardiac effects.
Other symptoms potentially related to misuse or inhalation abuse are:
Anaesthetic effects, Light-headedness, dizziness, confusion,
incoordination, drowsiness, or unconsciousness, irregular heartbeat with a
strange sensation in the chest, heart thumping, apprehension, feeling of
fainting, dizziness or weakness.
Vapours are heavier than air and can cause suffocation by reducing oxygen
available for breathing.
Repeated exposure : Adverse effects from repeated inhalation may include:
Altered response to stimuli
Carcinogenicity
None of the components present in this material at concentrations equal to or greater than 0.1% are listed by
IARC, NTP, or OSHA, as a carcinogen.

Kidde Dry Chemical-  2. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Main Hazards
Non Hazardous Powder
Routes of Entry
- Eye contact - Inhalation - Skin contact
Carcinogenic Status
See Section 11 - Toxicity
Target Organs
- Respiratory System - Skin - Eye
Health Effects - Eyes
Contact for short periods of time may cause irritation.
Health Effects - Skin
Contact may cause mild irritation.
Health Effects - Ingestion
Ingestion is not an expected route of exposure.
Health Effects - Inhalation
May irritate the respiratory tract. May cause transient cough and shortness of breath.

Cessna 182 Emergency Procedures...
ELECTRICAL FIRE IN FLIGHT
Master.................................................OFF
Avionics..............................................OFF
All Other Switches .............................OFF
Vents/Cabin Air/Heat ................ CLOSED
Fire Extinguisher ...................ACTIVATE
If Fire out and electrical needed:
Master .............................................. ON
Circuit Breakers .. CHECK, Do Not Reset
Radio Switches................................OFF
Avionics ........................................... ON
Radio/Electrical........ON, One At A Time
Vents/Cabin Air/Heat...................OPEN

CABIN FIRE
Master.................................................OFF
Vents/Cabin Air/Heat ................ CLOSED
Fire Extinguisher ...................ACTIVATE
Land ASAP

Apparently, CAP hasn't standardized the fire extinguishers throughout the fleet, as there are CAP aircraft that are reported to carry either dry chem, Halon, or Halotron units.   Any of these should do the job.  Remember.......at the end of the day, an aircraft and its parts can be replaced.  A flight crew cannot.  As the Grail Knight from Indian Jones said, "Choose wisely."