Hawk Mountain Ranger School

[CAP Ranger]

Ive had it.  This forum is worthless.  I have tried to carry on a constructive and fun thread but nobody wants to STAY ON TOPIC!!!!  You all can't respect a cadet's simple wishes to carry on a conversation about preparing to go to Hawk Mountain in 2010.  You all should be ashamed.  You call your  selves leaders?!?!  I am one of those cadets who went to Hawk.  What I saw there wasn't hazing.  It was tough.... but not hazing.  It all goes back to the age old saying.... "don't knock it tel you try it"...  I don't understand how someone who have never even been to Hawk, who have just herd stories form others, who don't know squat about what he is talking about, can judge what goes on there.  I for one am done with this forum.. and will not come back.

P.S.
This was only my first thread.  Sad isn't it....

[Rotorhead]

Ive had it.  This forum is worthless.  I have tried to carry on a constructive and fun thread but nobody wants to STAY ON TOPIC!!!!  You all can't respect a cadet's simple wishes to carry on a conversation about preparing to go to Hawk Mountain in 2010.  You all should be ashamed.  You call your  selves leaders?!?!  I am one of those cadets who went to Hawk.  What I saw there wasn't hazing.  It was tough.... but not hazing.  It all goes back to the age old saying.... "don't knock it tel you try it"...  I don't understand how someone who have never even been to Hawk, who have just herd stories form others, who don't know squat about what he is talking about, can judge what goes on there.  I for one am done with this forum.. and will not come back.

P.S.
This was only my first thread.  Sad isn't it....

Yes, it is sad that your skin is so thin.

[jimmydeanno]

I completely agree with the cadet.  He is the OP, nothing any of you have discussed has been even remotely related to the topic that he wanted to discuss. 

It has nothing to do with his skin being "so thin,"  it has to do with the lot of you not being able to keep your mouths shut and opinions to yourself. 

It has nothing to do with you talking about how much you dislike the program or hazing or whatever.  It's purpose was to:

he purpose of this forum post is to open up discussion about the upcoming 2010 HMRS winter & summer schools!

Meaning that those who are going can ask questions, get answers, etc.  The activity is going to happen, whether you like it or not.  Cadets are going to go, whether you like it or not. 

The next time you guys start a thread, I should just come in a **** all over it, completely destroying your thread and original intent. 

I am so glad that CAPTalk is not representative of the rest of the organization...

[CAP Ranger]

 

Ive had it.  This forum is worthless.  I have tried to carry on a constructive and fun thread but nobody wants to STAY ON TOPIC!!!!  You all can't respect a cadet's simple wishes to carry on a conversation about preparing to go to Hawk Mountain in 2010.  You all should be ashamed.  You call your  selves leaders?!?!  I am one of those cadets who went to Hawk.  What I saw there wasn't hazing.  It was tough.... but not hazing.  It all goes back to the age old saying.... "don't knock it tel you try it"...  I don't understand how someone who have never even been to Hawk, who have just herd stories form others, who don't know squat about what he is talking about, can judge what goes on there.  I for one am done with this forum.. and will not come back.

P.S.
This was only my first thread.  Sad isn't it....

Yes, it is sad that your skin is so thin.

Wow.... Insulting cadets now are we.  Sir you are an exact example of what I am talking about.  In one word arrogant.  I ask that a moderator lock this forum.

[CAP Ranger]

I completely agree with the cadet.  He is the OP, nothing any of you have discussed has been even remotely related to the topic that he wanted to discuss. 

It has nothing to do with his skin being "so thin,"  it has to do with the lot of you not being able to keep your mouths shut and opinions to yourself. 

It has nothing to do with you talking about how much you dislike the program or hazing or whatever.  It's purpose was to:

he purpose of this forum post is to open up discussion about the upcoming 2010 HMRS winter & summer schools!

Meaning that those who are going can ask questions, get answers, etc.  The activity is going to happen, whether you like it or not.  Cadets are going to go, whether you like it or not. 

The next time you guys start a thread, I should just come in a **** all over it, completely destroying your thread and original intent. 

I am so glad that CAPTalk is not representative of the rest of the organization...

Thanks for that jimmydeanno. :clap:  I decided that online forums aren't for me.

[NCRblues]

You're upset that we did not get on here and sing the ranger's praises? That is the attitude I mentioned earlier. It seems like those that attend every year, cannot stand a little criticism of their precious program. This subject (along with others) is a sure fire way to get those that don't like it fired up. You have found out that not everyone loves this program; it's a tuff life out there. I had several cadets one time tell me they couldn't talk about what happens there, other cadets went and never ever showed back up to cap again, they were treated like scum because they could not handle the physical aspects of the program. There is no room for this kind of treatment in cap to children or adult volunteers. To make one where a pink belt, or to haze a cadet because he can't handle the extra pt is outrageous and should not be tolerated at any level.  BTW, this is on topic. The topic was " hawk mountain ranger school" not, "only post here if you love it and never want to criticize it" or "only post great things about it here because we don't want to listen to our critics". Grow up and learn that people have opinions on a *gasp* public opinion discussion board.

[Rotorhead]

 

Ive had it.  This forum is worthless.  I have tried to carry on a constructive and fun thread but nobody wants to STAY ON TOPIC!!!!  You all can't respect a cadet's simple wishes to carry on a conversation about preparing to go to Hawk Mountain in 2010.  You all should be ashamed.  You call your  selves leaders?!?!  I am one of those cadets who went to Hawk.  What I saw there wasn't hazing.  It was tough.... but not hazing.  It all goes back to the age old saying.... "don't knock it tel you try it"...  I don't understand how someone who have never even been to Hawk, who have just herd stories form others, who don't know squat about what he is talking about, can judge what goes on there.  I for one am done with this forum.. and will not come back.

P.S.
This was only my first thread.  Sad isn't it....

Yes, it is sad that your skin is so thin.

Wow.... Insulting cadets now are we.  Sir you are an exact example of what I am talking about.  In one word arrogant.  I ask that a moderator lock this forum.

Did you not say, "I for one am done with this forum.. and will not come back"

Yet, here you are, continuing to post.

When someone starts a topic on an internet board, they do not get to control how people will react to it or what they will say.

That's a risk you take.

Why should this topic be locked? Because people had honest reactions that were not what you wanted them to have?

[jimmydeanno]

I swear, y'all are stuck on stupid...

What part of "please stay on topic" is not clear in your minds? 

The purpose of this thread was not to criticize or praise the hawk mountain program.  It was intended to be a helpful resource for those who were going to the 2010 activities.

Your personal feelings or past experiences, good, bad, or indifferent, are completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand - so you might as well just keep your mouths shut.

The cadet started a discussion and a bunch of curmudgeony senior members who are so disenfranchised by the program felt it necessary to put words in the cadet's mouth about what the intent of his thread was.

This cadet is in no way, "in the wrong."  Every single one of you who are continuing to further derail this thread, insult this cadet, and bash the program that he has signed up to participate in, is in the wrong.

If you hate HMRS that much and have these horrid stories of hazing, perhaps your complaints would better be directed at someone who can investigate and change things rather than here.  In fact, I know I would prefer not having to read through all your crap to find something of value here.  Actually, because of your juvenile reactions to this thread, there is nothing of value to it.

Instead you derail the thread from the very first post, argue with the cadet, telling him to grow thicker skin and if he doesn't like it, oh well. 

I swear, if I could reach through my computer screen I'd slap half of you...

I hate senior members...

[Rotorhead]

....fixing my message...

Oh, no, you don't. You said, "I hate senior members."

As for the other part you deleted, this is precisely the right place to "open one's mouth."

[NCRblues]

"I hate senior members"?
....so...wait...you hate yourself then? Your profile says your 27 so.....

[jimmydeanno]

....fixing my message...

Oh, no, you don't. You said, "I hate senior members."

As for the other part you deleted, this is precisely the right place to "open one's mouth."

I wasn't trying to change my message, but most of my reply didn't make it over when I hit submit, just the last line...trust me, there isn't any attempt to change what I had said.  In fact, if I could make it more insulting to the lot of you, I probably would.

....so...wait...you hate yourself then? Your profile says your 27 so.....

Yep, I am one.  Doesn't change my opinion of them...

[davidsinn]

I did ask a question that was germane to the OP.

I asked if 2010 will continue to do something that previous years had.

[Hawk200]

The OP started a thread to discuss the program. When discussions began, the individual demanded that it "stay on topic".  Every post was about it. It simply looked like the OP wanted to make an announcement, not have it discussed. I took other things from the OP's first post, but those are my opinions so I'm not going to post them.

Many people here have had negative interactions with graduates. The program has a large amount of "look at me" bling. Personally, I can live with a patch/badge and a hat. The tabs would show progression, I can live with that, although I think they should be a little more understated.

However, things like multiple colors of belts, multiple colors of scarves, orange shirts, white boot laces further remove anyone wearing them from their peers. If it was just a patch or a badge, I doubt many people would be so interested in it.

When it comes to discussion, people loving it or hating it is part of that. To demand that people only respond in a supportive manner isn't gonna happen.

I think more cadets would be better served by what's done at the Colorado Wing GSAR School.

It's about training, not elitism or special uniform items or about having a cool but meaningless title, i.e., "Ranger."

Take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SzvIsMC6B4

While in Colorado Wing, I designed a badge for that program. It was pretty simple, just a badge, nothing additional. No ropes, belts, t-shirts, hats or anything added. I was thanked for my submission, but told that the school was more concerned about getting people educated with high quality training than they were about any badges, and that most of their training would apply to GT qualifications anyway.

Wow.... Insulting cadets now are we.

It still amazes me how people turn things into something they're not.

[Turtle1]

I will admit that we did get off of topic somewhat, BUT the poster in a way was asking for it by calling himself a super ranger!

[Stonewall]

I'm with Jimmy.  I am not a fan of the "personality" of HMRS, but I like the idea of the school.  I've said it many times; my disgust for a lot of the elitism, etc.

But this Cadet started what I believe to be a well intended topic.  Senior members jumped on this and attacked without regard to this cadet's experience, age or desire to enjoy an activity.

I'm embarrassed on behalf of my fellow senior members; most of whom (who posted) I generally like.

[Hawk200]

I'm with Jimmy.  I am not a fan of the "personality" of HMRS, but I like the idea of the school.  I've said it many times; my disgust for a lot of the elitism, etc.

But this Cadet started what I believe to be a well intended topic.  Senior members jumped on this and attacked without regard to this cadet's experience, age or desire to enjoy an activity.

I'm embarrassed on behalf of my fellow senior members; most of whom (who posted) I generally like.

Not attacking the OP, but I can see how some of the replies added to the problems. Some of the statements came across as less than pleasant.

The school may be a great idea, but when it's thought of negatively, it's a problem. Even though the OP claimed that the "super rangers" statement was humorous, it was taken as a negative by people that have had bad experiences with Hawk Mountain "Rangers".

The "So that others may live" line has been thought of as particulary bold by many who know where it comes from.  Pretty much anything mentioned in a post is subject to scrutiny, analysis, and sometimes ill will.

[Spike]

Well then.  Go to Pawingcap.com/hawk

You (Cadet TSgt RD) can find everything you need to know.  What specifically shall we now discuss?  Are there unanswered questions you have about Hawk 2010. 

Here are questions I have about Hawk 2010;

1) Does every one have to eat Rabbit stew?
2) Is the Pink Web Belt allowed to be presented to Senior Members who are "less than perfect rangers"?
3) Are the Expert Rangers going to be partying all week like last year? 
4) Is the Cadet with asthma who never had any symptoms before going to be called weak during the march up the mountain when he has his first asthma attack? Like a certain Cadet last year who had to be taken to the local med center? (a neighboring Squadrons Cadet BTW)
5) Are pushups in the shower going to be part of training this year again?

Seriously.....all 5 items are issues that are now sitting at Maxwell. 

What other things does anyone need to know before attending??  I am a wealth of knowledge, or I can direct you to the General Counsel at Maxwell should you have other questions. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

"These Things We Do So Others May Live"

Can you tell us who the first person to say this phrase was?  And what year??  (this is a history nerd question)  --And, no it was not some Ranger Staff Cadet. 

"These things we do...
that others may live"

This motto hasbeen adopted by Search and Rescue (SAR) teams worldwide to signify thecore values of those who, at times, risk their own lives to save thelives of others. The phrase, which may have been adapted from itsoriginal Biblical origin, aptly describes the SAR goal of saving thosein need of rescue.

The motto "That others may live" has originsfrom the USAF Pararescue: reported by Time Magazine in 1966. Mostrecently, the quote was prominent in the movie, The Guardian,portraying U.S. Coast Guard rescue swimmers.

[Spike]

The motto "That others may live" has origins from the USAF Pararescue: reported by Time Magazine in 1966.

Almost right, it is from Pararescue, but what general spoke the first recording of the phrase??  In the same recording he did say "These things we do so that others may live".  If you are a "Hawk history buff", you will get your answer now. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

The motto "That others may live" has origins from the USAF Pararescue: reported by Time Magazine in 1966.

Almost right, it is from Pararescue, but what general spoke the first recording of the phrase??  In the same recording he did say "These things we do so that others may live".  If you are a "Hawk history buff", you will get your answer now. 

I ain't no Hawk buff, just more interested in the quote.