encampment showers

[Cobra1597]

all right we're done

And nobody died from a heart attack or from fright because they had to endure an open shower room.

Next non-issue...

So the only way for it to be an issue is if they die from it? Gee, and here I thought we had stuff like a CISM program for ES personnel just exposed to things that leave psychological marks, but no physical ones. Guess we can can that if the standard is only dying.

[DakRadz]

Agreed, Cobra.. [sarcasm] And also, sir, we need to let the chaplains know their duties just became more limited and we have little need for them anymore- just basically for the Cadet Program with Character Development. [/sarcasm]

PHall, that was a little cold. For those of us who've never before had to take communal showers, that could be a bit of a shocker- or worse. IF the issue is covered, ground rules are set, and cadets are given the chance to ask questions (this could happen during a 15 minute briefing at encampment)- then I'd say at that point, the cadets are mature enough to come to encampment, the rules are clear, they've had a chance to ask questions- Good to go. Bathing suit or not, that's dependent upon whose running the show, I suppose.

Just because it wouldn't affect some people, that argument won't hold water for everyone, even if no one dies from it.
I'm 17, never had to do the communal showers- they aren't nearly as popular nowadays. So throwing Cadet Bagodonuts in the shower naked, with no idea how this crap works- bad idea. Do what I said above- should work out much much better.

[BillB]

And what about the white and gray shower uniform?

[DakRadz]

Ain't no thread like a uniform thread, cause a uniform thread gets locked! 

[PHall]

Agreed, Cobra.. [sarcasm] And also, sir, we need to let the chaplains know their duties just became more limited and we have little need for them anymore- just basically for the Cadet Program with Character Development. [/sarcasm]

PHall, that was a little cold. For those of us who've never before had to take communal showers, that could be a bit of a shocker- or worse. IF the issue is covered, ground rules are set, and cadets are given the chance to ask questions (this could happen during a 15 minute briefing at encampment)- then I'd say at that point, the cadets are mature enough to come to encampment, the rules are clear, they've had a chance to ask questions- Good to go. Bathing suit or not, that's dependent upon whose running the show, I suppose.

Just because it wouldn't affect some people, that argument won't hold water for everyone, even if no one dies from it.
I'm 17, never had to do the communal showers- they aren't nearly as popular nowadays. So throwing Cadet Bagodonuts in the shower naked, with no idea how this crap works- bad idea. Do what I said above- should work out much much better.

Well lets see, I was at that Encampment. I got to monitor the shower situation every night and we simply didn't have any problems after the second night.
The cadets figured out this was the only way they were going to get clean and they rolled with it.

[NIN]

Well lets see, I was at that Encampment. I got to monitor the shower situation every night and we simply didn't have any problems after the second night.
The cadets figured out this was the only way they were going to get clean and they rolled with it.

Y'know, Phil, its threads like this that keep reminding me of why I crossed over to the Foliage Green.

[CCAlex]

@PHall
I meant that this thread really isn't needed anymore and I kind of don't like the sarcasm that's going around here.

[Eclipse]

@PHall

This isn't Twitter...

[CCAlex]

I thought it would be correct to do that because everybody types it that way

[Eclipse]

I thought it would be correct to do that because everybody types it that way

No, Twitter users type that way.  Why would you do that anywhere else?

Plus, if we argue about that for a few rounds, it'll kill this thread once and for all...

[DakRadz]

FACEBOOK, MAJOR!

Really really.

[Eclipse]

FACEBOOK, MAJOR!

Really really.

GAH!  My eyes! It burns!

[CCAlex]

we should try to stay on topic

[DakRadz]

The topic is dead/useless, didn't you say?

Might as well have a little fun before MIKE comes along swinging the Mod-Hammer 

CCAlex- This is the proper way to address someone on this board.
CCAlex, this will work as well.
CCAlex,
This too seems acceptable.

@CCAlex
Leave this in Twitter and Facebook.

[SarDragon]

OK, a  couple of thoughts here before the Mike Strike.

The @ business - FB and Twitter do not allow quoting, so the @ is an alternate method for directing replies to specific individuals. On here, if you want to address a particular post, quote all or part of it, and respond.

Showers - I was thrust into that arena when I was 11 yo, in 7th grade PE. Being a year younger than my age peer group, and small in stature, I got a lot of crap, as is common in HS. Any anxiety I had about showering with 19 other guys went away after a few days. I guess today's kids are different.

YMMV.

[PHall]

Any anxiety I had about showering with 19 other guys went away after a few days. I guess today's kids are different.

YMMV.

Like I said, after the second night, no problems. Today's kids, when their "helicopter parents" aren't around, can adapt just as well as you and I did. They just need to get a chance to do it.

And peer pressure with the other members of their flight helped a lot too.

[Cobra1597]

Any anxiety I had about showering with 19 other guys went away after a few days. I guess today's kids are different.

YMMV.

Like I said, after the second night, no problems. Today's kids, when their "helicopter parents" aren't around, can adapt just as well as you and I did. They just need to get a chance to do it.

And peer pressure with the other members of their flight helped a lot too.

You've seen examples in this thread of the "you" people not always adjusting. So that says to me that you're standard is "I did this, so everyone can be like me and do it." Thing is, especially on psychological development, it just doesn't work that way. Hell, the old leadership says, "recognize individual differences."

[NIN]

You've seen examples in this thread of the "you" people not always adjusting. So that says to me that you're standard is "I did this, so everyone can be like me and do it." Thing is, especially on psychological development, it just doesn't work that way. Hell, the old leadership says, "recognize individual differences."

Harry, I can't believe you even typed that with a straight face.

"Gee, Cadet Jones, I'm sorry you're always out of step and consequently turn a direction opposite of the other 20 cades during flank movements in drill.  But, I should recognize your individual differences and tell you that's A-OK."

Look, this is a tempest in a tea pot.    Where does it end?  Private rooms for cadets who have never slept in open bay?  Van rides for cadets who have never walked/marched more than a mile to a training site?   Everybody gets a certificate, even the kid who couldn't conform to group norms and had to be sent home on Tuesday?

"Dear Parents & Guardians: I'm sorry we had to raise the cost of our encampment, but the local Army post that was only going to charge us $5/night per cadet has communal showers. We recognized that this might affect the delicate sensibilities of some of our more sheltered cadets, so we had to switch to the nearby college dorms with its 2 man rooms and shared bathrooms at $25/night per cadet... Oh, yeah, and their dining facility wants $3.50/meal... kinda sucks,  I know.  The good news is that if your son or daughter wants the "non-marching" encampment, we can still offer that for an extra $25.  All the encampment goodness without any of the discomfort or potential blisters."

[Cobra1597]

You've seen examples in this thread of the "you" people not always adjusting. So that says to me that you're standard is "I did this, so everyone can be like me and do it." Thing is, especially on psychological development, it just doesn't work that way. Hell, the old leadership says, "recognize individual differences."

Harry, I can't believe you even typed that with a straight face.

"Gee, Cadet Jones, I'm sorry you're always out of step and consequently turn a direction opposite of the other 20 cades during flank movements in drill.  But, I should recognize your individual differences and tell you that's A-OK."

Look, this is a tempest in a tea pot.    Where does it end?  Private rooms for cadets who have never slept in open bay?  Van rides for cadets who have never walked/marched more than a mile to a training site?   Everybody gets a certificate, even the kid who couldn't conform to group norms and had to be sent home on Tuesday?

"Dear Parents & Guardians: I'm sorry we had to raise the cost of our encampment, but the local Army post that was only going to charge us $5/night per cadet has communal showers. We recognized that this might affect the delicate sensibilities of some of our more sheltered cadets, so we had to switch to the nearby college dorms with its 2 man rooms and shared bathrooms at $25/night per cadet... Oh, yeah, and their dining facility wants $3.50/meal... kinda sucks,  I know.  The good news is that if your son or daughter wants the "non-marching" encampment, we can still offer that for an extra $25.  All the encampment goodness without any of the discomfort or potential blisters."

We aren't talking about cadets marching out of step here. We're talking about psychological sexual development, hell, possibly even taunting based on those themes, and the simplest of all solutions that doesn't seem to effect training requirements in the least. Wearing some [darn] swim trunks. I get that we're in military facilities with these communal showers.

But heck, if you want to make it about the cadet who is having trouble marching in step, let's do that one. Do you simply treat them as everyone else, no individual training what so ever to get them up to speed? No mentoring? Just toss them back, and have their flight sergeant chew them out every time they're out of step? Of course not, you solve the problem, even if it means some extra and individualized training to get it done. Same as if you have a cadet who isn't shining their boots well. If the problem isn't simply a lack of discipline and will to get it done, but that they aren't understanding how to do it, you do the training to get it done, you don't just stand their yelling at them for it and acting like the problem is going to go away. Sometimes different problems require different tools from the toolbox. You yourself taught me that.

The attitude from PHall that I'm seeing here is "if it doesn't kill them, you're doing it right." My measure of "doing it right" is higher than "well everyone is still alive."

[DakRadz]

And peer pressure with the other members of their flight helped a lot too.

Depending on what this means, exactly (because the smiley face doesn't provide a big indicator), this could definitely set CPPT alarm bells off in my head if cadets are harassing other cadets about the showers deal.

Now, earlier on I wrote about how a 15 minute briefing letting everyone know that communal showers would be utilized and how things would work, any questions etc., would cover any problems which might arise, and address any that a cadet might have. If something is explained well and fairly, I've seen that even the younger, slightly scared I-won't-admit-I-miss-my-mom-but-I-do types are very receptive.

They covered showers at my encampment this year, and we had individual stalls. But they still laid down ground rules, so that no one could play dumb. It's not hard. And addressing a problem and providing a small forum for questions can work wonders to eliminate the need  for things such as 3 pages of this bickering.

I speak from knowing my own reaction as well as my flight's reaction when these techniques were used on us. First-hand dooley knowledge.