Hawk Mt. Staff Training is it the hardest in CAP?

[Nathan]

Let me simplify it, Ranger Staff training is the hardest thing I have done in CAP. I think its wrong if any Ranger goes around saying its the hardest thing in CAP. However I do think its up there for the reasons I stated in my other posts. No, I cannot say its the hardest because I havent done everything. Im not biased to the Rangers its just what I really enjoy doing.

The only thing I will say is that you need to be extra careful to make sure that your feelings of Hawk being the toughest thing you've done means that you don't feel that Hawk is the toughest thing you'll ever do. I know a lot of cadets who went to Hawk, and then got wrapped up in the Hawk mindset not because Hawk was actually THAT difficult, but because they wanted to feel like they had reached the ultimate hardcore level without having to try anything else that might be more challenging.

Unfortunately, I don't have experience at Hawk, so I can't really compare it to anything else in terms of "difficulty." I can say that I know personally three cadets who attended Hawk a few times, but failed the Spaatz exam. I know at least two cadets who were Hawk staffers, but didn't make it all the way through Cadet Officer School. Likewise, I'm sure there are cadets of both accomplishments who in some way or another didn't do well at Hawk.

[CivilAirPatrol1996]

I am a Ranger. I am a Grey Scarf trying to become a Yellow Scarf. I just need to say you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Your all members of Civil Air Patrol. Part of a program that will help you for the rest of your lives. I personally could not find a more fulfilling program in CAP than Hawk, but im not an elitist who hates people who go to NESA or CCOC or PJOC and so on. People who go to hawk go there because they love and enjoy it, at least in my case. I just dont understand why you little [censored]s have to argue over petty crap (like how hard it is). Go do your own thing if you hate hawk, i dont care, but leave its staff and attendees alone.
C/CMSgt. William Adams CAP

[LTC Don]

 :clap:

[NCRblues]

I am a Ranger. I am a Grey Scarf trying to become a Yellow Scarf. I just need to say you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Your all members of Civil Air Patrol. Part of a program that will help you for the rest of your lives. I personally could not find a more fulfilling program in CAP than Hawk, but im not an elitist who hates people who go to NESA or CCOC or PJOC and so on. People who go to hawk go there because they love and enjoy it, at least in my case. I just dont understand why you little [censored]s have to argue over petty crap (like how hard it is). Go do your own thing if you hate hawk, i dont care, but leave its staff and attendees alone.
C/CMSgt. William Adams CAP

Yes, how dare i voice an opinion that is not yours....

Man, this raised my respect level for the "rangers"....not

[NIN]

:clap:

Don, save a little for me. And a good seat, willya?

[WESSginger]

Well doesn't NESA just require a staff application with no formal training?

The answer is yes and no. You have to be handed picked by the commandant of the school you are applying for, and fully qualified. But the Commandants generally only pick people they know are able to teach and train the cadets well. So unless you do well in the school you attend you will probably not be coming back as staff.

[Cool Mace]

I am a Ranger. I am a Grey Scarf trying to become a Yellow Scarf. I just need to say you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Your all members of Civil Air Patrol. Part of a program that will help you for the rest of your lives. I personally could not find a more fulfilling program in CAP than Hawk, but im not an elitist who hates people who go to NESA or CCOC or PJOC and so on. People who go to hawk go there because they love and enjoy it, at least in my case. I just dont understand why you little [censored]s have to argue over petty crap (like how hard it is). Go do your own thing if you hate hawk, i dont care, but leave its staff and attendees alone.
C/CMSgt. William Adams CAP

Yes, how dare i voice an opinion that is not yours....

Man, this raised my respect level for the "rangers"....not

HAHA! I couldn't have said it better!  :clap:

This is one of the reasons I don't like "ragers". They think they're better then everyone else.

How dare you go to NESA and learn more from many different schools in two weeks instead of going to Hawk!? ( <--- sarcasm).

[Eclipse]

I am a Ranger. I am a Grey Scarf trying to become a Yellow Scarf. I just need to say you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Your all members of Civil Air Patrol. Part of a program that will help you for the rest of your lives. I personally could not find a more fulfilling program in CAP than Hawk, but im not an elitist who hates people who go to NESA or CCOC or PJOC and so on. People who go to hawk go there because they love and enjoy it, at least in my case. I just dont understand why you little [censored]s have to argue over petty crap (like how hard it is). Go do your own thing if you hate hawk, i dont care, but leave its staff and attendees alone.
C/CMSgt. William Adams CAP

Cadet...

The answer to your question(s) are in your question(s).

[FW]

I am a Ranger. I am a Grey Scarf trying to become a Yellow Scarf. I just need to say you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Your all members of Civil Air Patrol. Part of a program that will help you for the rest of your lives. I personally could not find a more fulfilling program in CAP than Hawk, but im not an elitist who hates people who go to NESA or CCOC or PJOC and so on. People who go to hawk go there because they love and enjoy it, at least in my case. I just dont understand why you little [censored]s have to argue over petty crap (like how hard it is). Go do your own thing if you hate hawk, i dont care, but leave its staff and attendees alone.
C/CMSgt. William Adams CAP

Cadet Adams,

I understand your zeal for HMRS.  I have a deep affection for "The Mountain"  and the staff of the school.  And, since I have played (a small part) in it's continued existance, I feel a bit partial to the program.  However, let's be realistic.  Some of the members on CAPTalk have been around for quite awhile now and, have a much wider experience than most cadets who have been to just 1 NCSA.

There was a time HMRS was more of a private and exclusive club; having little to do with the Civil Air Patrol ES program.  It was a place where cadets were abused and senior members did things that, today, would have put them in a very dark place and, branded for life.  Those days are long gone.  And, except for some entertaining rituals that have been retained, today's school is well run, worth the time and, staff training is a great way to help get the site ready for summer.  Enjoy your time at Hawk.  And, expand your cadet experience by going to other NCSA's as you progress through the program.  You will broaden your knowledge and have a more rounded life.

[CivilAirPatrol1996]

Some of you people are just... i dont even know how to describe you. In my last post on this page, i simply said that people dont have to hate on hawk. I was also trying to express my respect for other schools. I never said "how dare people go to NESA..." I mean really, i think NESA is a great school, and i respect ALL other members of the Civil Air Patrol, actually everyone in general. And i do not think i am better than anyone else, how can i make that more clear? really, how!?! Why can you people not grasp that not all rangers:
-Think they are better, or
-Are elitists
Also for others who brought this up, i certainly will attend more NCSA's in the future, IM 14!! I cant do most NCSA's until the summer of 2012.

[CivilAirPatrol1996]

I am a Ranger. I am a Grey Scarf trying to become a Yellow Scarf. I just need to say you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Your all members of Civil Air Patrol. Part of a program that will help you for the rest of your lives. I personally could not find a more fulfilling program in CAP than Hawk, but im not an elitist who hates people who go to NESA or CCOC or PJOC and so on. People who go to hawk go there because they love and enjoy it, at least in my case. I just dont understand why you little [censored]s have to argue over petty crap (like how hard it is). Go do your own thing if you hate hawk, i dont care, but leave its staff and attendees alone.
C/CMSgt. William Adams CAP

"Yes, how dare i voice an opinion that is not yours...."

Man, this raised my respect level for the "rangers"....not

HAHA! I couldn't have said it better!  :clap:

This is one of the reasons I don't like "ragers". They think they're better then everyone else.

How dare you go to NESA and learn more from many different schools in two weeks instead of going to Hawk!? ( <--- sarcasm).

Yeah, tell me WHERE I SAID YOU CANT VOICE AN OPINION NOT YOURS! I just said you dont need to be disrespectful to hawk, i dont disrespect you, whatever you do, cool! im not saying not to give your opinion, just in a less stereotypical, and more respectful
(core value of CAP) manner. have a nice day cadet.

[CivilAirPatrol1996]

:clap:

I really dont get why this is necessary...

[HGjunkie]

^^ I just want to say that I don't think any of those posters are cadets...

[tsrup]

Slow your roll Cadet Adams,

Many Colonels frequent this forum, some from your wing.  With your name and unit number posted it would be in your best interest not to be openly disrespecting CAP officers (read: Senior Members).  I advise that you reread the code of conduct for the forum, and not get too worked up over some of the opinions you find on this board, especially ones from threads that are almost a year old. 

[FW]

Cadet Adams; I would highly suggest you let this go.  Being 14 is hard enough.  Adults have developed "filters".  Filters are devices which keep unwanted "stuff" from permiating and spoiling the good.  If you don't understand the difference between discussion and rant, it may be a good idea to withhold continued posting until your filtering talents are developed.  Also, as Pylon explained in another thread, CAPTalk has a code of conduct.  Also, CAP has Core Values which we (members) all abide by.  Personal Attacks are not cool.  Respect others; even if their opinions differ from yours.


Enjoy staff training.  Enjoy this year's school and, if you see me at graduation come over and introduce yourself. 

[SarDragon]

Lighten up, Francis.

It appears that your view of Hawk is almost totally one-sided. The activity is about four times older than you and there are aspects of its history that you are likely totally unaware of, and a lot of it isn't pretty. Hence, the negative tone from some of the other folks on here.

Coming on here ranting and raving about your side of the story isn't kool. You're certainly not going to win friends and influence people in a positive manner with that kind of attitude.

Your posts are a look at you and your attitude. If you continue with the same antagonistic and belligerent manner, a lot of folks aren't going to care enough to help you out or pay attention to what you write. There are also all kinds of people reading what you write on here who could help decide your future, particularly in CAP.

just a friendly reminder

Oh, about the popcorn machine - some folks are just going to sit back and watch the festivities, as you dig your hole deeper and deeper. That, and similar, graphics are symbolic of that.

[NIN]

I really dont get why this is necessary...

OK, I *swear* I'm gonna be gentle about this.

The reason for the popcorn machine is a metaphor.

We anticipate that, like going to the movies, there is going to be a very entertaining show occurring in the very near future.

The entertainment, as we've seen here time and again, is someone (in this case, you, Cadet Adams) coming on to CAP-Talk and getting *really* bent out of shape *really* quickly and posting something thats *really* inflammatory when they *really* shouldn't be.

What follows generally has a predictable pattern, and some of us "old skool" guys, having seen it a bunch,  like to pop out our lawn chairs, grab a bowl of popcorn, and watch the action.  We generally stay OUT of the action, and are mere spectators.

If you've been on the Internet, and especially the CAP Internet, as long as I have, you'd do the same thing.

After awhile, you just sigh, shrug your shoulders, and make sure you have a piece of paper towel so you don't get melted butter on your trousers when you absent-mindedly wipe your hand on your pants.

Cuz these things usually end like this:

EDIT: BTW, Welcome to CAP-Talk, and if you'll be open to a bit of advice from a guy who's "been there, done that," try this on for size:

if whatever it is you're reading (here) has your breathing and heart rate up a couple notches, my suggestion is to step back from the keyboard for a little bit and don't post when something you've just read has you agitated.

Trust me on that one.

[NCRblues]

Cadet Adams,

I'm not a cadet, but i used to be.

Since joining the active duty AF and holding 2 different afsc's, i have seen a lot and done a lot more, but on to my point.

#1. You are NOT a "ranger". Let me type that out again....not a "ranger". I have been to NBB several times now (along with other NCSA as a cadet and SM) but i do not introduce myself as a "blue beret". You are a Civil Air Patrol Cadet that went and took training at Hawk, that's it. It does not make you a ranger anymore than the "blue beret" from NBB makes you a sky cop...

#2. Many of the Sm's here have no problem with HAWK itself, but we do have a problem with the cadets attitude that seems to leak from that place year after year. Point in case, you....

Hawk i think is overall a good thing, but something is not right there if CAP members from ALL over the nation report the same thing...bad attitudes and elitism. Being a teen, i will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are just misguided and need to have a "come to jesus" talk with some who has been around forever a long time....FW or any of the other old guys...i mean...senior members 

Anyway, cadet, buck up. People are going to disagree with you for the rest of your life. Fighting and arguing will not get you far...

[CivilAirPatrol1996]

Slow your roll Cadet Adams,

Many Colonels frequent this forum, some from your wing.  With your name and unit number posted it would be in your best interest not to be openly disrespecting CAP officers (read: Senior Members).  I advise that you reread the code of conduct for the forum, and not get too worked up over some of the opinions you find on this board, especially ones from threads that are almost a year old.

I am sorry Sir, i meant absolutley no disrespect to anyone, cadet or senior members. I really was trying to ask questions more that just do what everyone else does on these forums.... argue. And the swear i used, i completely honestly did not realize i used until i posted it. Again Sir, I sincerely apologize to anyone i may have offended or disrespected.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Slow your roll Cadet Adams,

Many Colonels frequent this forum, some from your wing.  With your name and unit number posted it would be in your best interest not to be openly disrespecting CAP officers (read: Senior Members).  I advise that you reread the code of conduct for the forum, and not get too worked up over some of the opinions you find on this board, especially ones from threads that are almost a year old.

I am sorry Sir, i meant absolutley no disrespect to anyone, cadet or senior members. I really was trying to ask questions more that just do what everyone else does on these forums.... argue. And the swear i used, i completely honestly did not realize i used until i posted it. Again Sir, I sincerely apologize to anyone i may have offended or disrespected.

The way you type sends a lot about the way you are meaning your words. Using things like !?!, or ALL CAPS shows anger and disrespect. Settle down a bit, take a breather, and step away for five minutes. If that doesn't help, write your response in Word, read it a couple of times and think about how it makes you feel to read it, if it still gets your blood pumping, just don't write it.

I think Hawk is a great school, here in INWG though, it is tough to get to PAWG, and NESA is a great school. There is not much that is taught at Hawk that isn't taught at NESA. The important thing is that people who want to operate on the ground are getting the important training that we need.

Good luck, and enjoy being a cadet, I had more fun as a cadet than I could ever ask for again.